9/9 Jenks AMPS 175 +7 258 PMPS 153 +7 142 +10 131
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julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 9/7 Jenks AMPS 204 +7 292
there could be a couple of things going on - one is that the 15% might be too high of carbs, or you may have given too large of a volume.
another is that you mentioned he moved while you were shooting and the needle came out. some insulin could've been lost in that, resulting in a partial furshot.
a third possibility is that he may have bounced. sometimes cats will hold it together for a while, then it's like their pancreas gets tired and they sputter out.
my gut feeling is to go for Door #2. I suspect there was probably a little insulin lost when he pulled away from you.
i'd keep trying. your spreadsheet notes are great - they're going to help you figure out what works and what doesn't.
there could be a couple of things going on - one is that the 15% might be too high of carbs, or you may have given too large of a volume.
another is that you mentioned he moved while you were shooting and the needle came out. some insulin could've been lost in that, resulting in a partial furshot.
a third possibility is that he may have bounced. sometimes cats will hold it together for a while, then it's like their pancreas gets tired and they sputter out.
my gut feeling is to go for Door #2. I suspect there was probably a little insulin lost when he pulled away from you.
i'd keep trying. your spreadsheet notes are great - they're going to help you figure out what works and what doesn't.
AZJenks
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/7 Jenks AMPS 204 +7 292 PMPS 193 +7 69 +9.5 80
Jenks dove into the greens again tonight. I tried feeding the curve again with a 12% Friskies Mixed Grill, which yielded better results. He showed a nice food bump that should give him just the right amount of room should he continue to fall into AMPS. I've been up all night bailing water from the 5 inches of rain we received tonight, so I'm hanging around to do AMPS.
Jenks dove into the greens again tonight. I tried feeding the curve again with a 12% Friskies Mixed Grill, which yielded better results. He showed a nice food bump that should give him just the right amount of room should he continue to fall into AMPS. I've been up all night bailing water from the 5 inches of rain we received tonight, so I'm hanging around to do AMPS.
AZJenks
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/8 Jenks AMPS 137
Feeding the curve turned out to be more successful this time around.
The Good: He didn't dive into the 40s or 50s and therefore didn't require any close monitoring or intervention. Also, the 12% Mixed Grill didn't appear to raise the blood sugar as much as the 15% Savory Shreds that I tried before.
The Not-so-good: He kept rising off of the food bump, nearly doubling between PMPS+7.5 and AMPS. So either he's stopped crashing between PMPS+7 and +9, or the depot is starting to run out and his body is beginning to make a U-turn on its own, in which case the food is acting as an accelerator.
Other Thoughts: I might consider testing the MC food at PMPS. That way, his BG will first go up, making it a longer fall before he gets into numbers that require some steering or intervention, rather than having to give them a bump when they might already be lower and close to a natural rise. Also, tonight's 69 might not have needed any sort of intervention. He might've just cruised in the 60s or upper 50s and been just fine.
Feeding the curve turned out to be more successful this time around.
The Good: He didn't dive into the 40s or 50s and therefore didn't require any close monitoring or intervention. Also, the 12% Mixed Grill didn't appear to raise the blood sugar as much as the 15% Savory Shreds that I tried before.
The Not-so-good: He kept rising off of the food bump, nearly doubling between PMPS+7.5 and AMPS. So either he's stopped crashing between PMPS+7 and +9, or the depot is starting to run out and his body is beginning to make a U-turn on its own, in which case the food is acting as an accelerator.
Other Thoughts: I might consider testing the MC food at PMPS. That way, his BG will first go up, making it a longer fall before he gets into numbers that require some steering or intervention, rather than having to give them a bump when they might already be lower and close to a natural rise. Also, tonight's 69 might not have needed any sort of intervention. He might've just cruised in the 60s or upper 50s and been just fine.
AZJenks
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/8 Jenks AMPS 137 PMPS 203
Starting off PMPS at about the same point we did last night. Continuing the feed the curve experiment, I'm using Mixed Grill (12%) at the PMPS feeding to give an initial BG bump to see if that mellows out the fall that occurs later in the night.
No midday reading today. Jenks lazily slept most of the day away, and he didn't seem interested in having lunch. So we just skipped it.
Starting off PMPS at about the same point we did last night. Continuing the feed the curve experiment, I'm using Mixed Grill (12%) at the PMPS feeding to give an initial BG bump to see if that mellows out the fall that occurs later in the night.
No midday reading today. Jenks lazily slept most of the day away, and he didn't seem interested in having lunch. So we just skipped it.
AZJenks
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/8 Jenks AMPS 137 PMPS 203 +7 108 +9.5 97
Tonight's experiment involved feeding the curve beginning at PMPS. Same 12% food, just earlier in the night. The hypothesis is that it should raise his BG before the insulin kicks in, so he has farther to fall before going low in the later hours. It seemed to work because tonight he only dipped 100 points between tests whereas he dropped 125 points in the same period the night before. The unfortunate side effect is that it kept him blue much longer.
12% may still be too much carbs. I'll try a 9-10% today, also at PMPS, to see how much of a difference, if any, that it makes.
Tonight's experiment involved feeding the curve beginning at PMPS. Same 12% food, just earlier in the night. The hypothesis is that it should raise his BG before the insulin kicks in, so he has farther to fall before going low in the later hours. It seemed to work because tonight he only dipped 100 points between tests whereas he dropped 125 points in the same period the night before. The unfortunate side effect is that it kept him blue much longer.
12% may still be too much carbs. I'll try a 9-10% today, also at PMPS, to see how much of a difference, if any, that it makes.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 9/8 Jenks AMPS 137 PMPS 203 +7 108 +9.5 97
i was reading your updates from last night thinking, "maybe the 12% is too much" and there it is in your last post - i think trying an 8% or so is a great idea. I wouldn't try to increase his preshot so he has farther to fall, though. The goal is long flat curves - closer to a line than a curve. i would only try to raise the lowest numbers, preventing a fast drop, for example.
you must be in Arizona - marje said they got flooded too. we saw AZ on our news last night - cars with water up to the middle of their windows. i hope you guys are ok.
i was reading your updates from last night thinking, "maybe the 12% is too much" and there it is in your last post - i think trying an 8% or so is a great idea. I wouldn't try to increase his preshot so he has farther to fall, though. The goal is long flat curves - closer to a line than a curve. i would only try to raise the lowest numbers, preventing a fast drop, for example.
you must be in Arizona - marje said they got flooded too. we saw AZ on our news last night - cars with water up to the middle of their windows. i hope you guys are ok.
AZJenks
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/9 Jenks AMPS 175 +7 258
Yes, we're in Arizona too. We got 5 inches of rain last night in about 6 hours. That's roughly 75% of our annual rainfall. Everything's just fine, although I'll probably be chopping weeds until Christmas. Yay!
The purpose behind the feeding the curve experiment was two-fold. First, it was to prevent him from going so low in the wee hours. Second, by doing that, it was hypothesized to also have a flattening effect on his daytime cycle. It was successful with respect to the former, and a failure in relation to the latter.
Previously, he was getting 8% Turkey & Gibs, and was still touching the 40s, which prompted me to investigate some higher carb alternatives. What I'm observing is that, regardless of the time at which they are fed, they just give him less time in the greens, elevate his AMPS, and have no effect on the following day's midcycle test.
So for now, I think I'm going to return to 8% or less at nighttime and see what happens. I'm not convinced food is going to be the answer to his odd curves, so I'll have to focus my attention on finding some sort of solution to flattening out the daytime rise, which should have the concomitant effect of yielding a slower, flatter nighttime cycle. The only thought I have at the moment about how to do that involves some sort of quick, short acting insulin that takes effect immediately to prevent the daytime rise until the Lantus can kick in (if it ever does during the day).
Yes, we're in Arizona too. We got 5 inches of rain last night in about 6 hours. That's roughly 75% of our annual rainfall. Everything's just fine, although I'll probably be chopping weeds until Christmas. Yay!
The purpose behind the feeding the curve experiment was two-fold. First, it was to prevent him from going so low in the wee hours. Second, by doing that, it was hypothesized to also have a flattening effect on his daytime cycle. It was successful with respect to the former, and a failure in relation to the latter.
Previously, he was getting 8% Turkey & Gibs, and was still touching the 40s, which prompted me to investigate some higher carb alternatives. What I'm observing is that, regardless of the time at which they are fed, they just give him less time in the greens, elevate his AMPS, and have no effect on the following day's midcycle test.
So for now, I think I'm going to return to 8% or less at nighttime and see what happens. I'm not convinced food is going to be the answer to his odd curves, so I'll have to focus my attention on finding some sort of solution to flattening out the daytime rise, which should have the concomitant effect of yielding a slower, flatter nighttime cycle. The only thought I have at the moment about how to do that involves some sort of quick, short acting insulin that takes effect immediately to prevent the daytime rise until the Lantus can kick in (if it ever does during the day).
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 9/9 Jenks AMPS 175 +7 258
it'd probably be a good idea to go back to starting a new condo every day, but since we're on this one today, i'm just going to keep on.
one more thought - some cats flatten out dramatically when they switch to Levemir. I don't know how close you are to finishing up your current Lantus, but it might be something to consider. Not all cats do - JD is on Levemir but continued to bounce after he switched. Jenks might be a good candidate though. If you've given the current insulin a good 6 month trial and you're not where you'd like to be, it makes some sense to try another one. Lantus and Lev are the 2 best for cats.
If you choose to do that, you just shoot the old insulin at your regular shot time and the next shot time start the Lev. the starting dose on Lev is about 70% of what you were at on Lantus. I already closed Jenk's ss, but i think you're on 5.0u right now. If so, the starting Lev dose would be about 3.5u. If I'm remembering Jenk's dose incorrectly, then obviously that would change the starting Lev dose.
You could look at Cobb's spreadsheet to see a recent change from Lantus to Lev. He's a high dose kitty, so that part isn't comparable, but you'll be able to see the difference just by looking at the colors and numbers.
it'd probably be a good idea to go back to starting a new condo every day, but since we're on this one today, i'm just going to keep on.
one more thought - some cats flatten out dramatically when they switch to Levemir. I don't know how close you are to finishing up your current Lantus, but it might be something to consider. Not all cats do - JD is on Levemir but continued to bounce after he switched. Jenks might be a good candidate though. If you've given the current insulin a good 6 month trial and you're not where you'd like to be, it makes some sense to try another one. Lantus and Lev are the 2 best for cats.
If you choose to do that, you just shoot the old insulin at your regular shot time and the next shot time start the Lev. the starting dose on Lev is about 70% of what you were at on Lantus. I already closed Jenk's ss, but i think you're on 5.0u right now. If so, the starting Lev dose would be about 3.5u. If I'm remembering Jenk's dose incorrectly, then obviously that would change the starting Lev dose.
You could look at Cobb's spreadsheet to see a recent change from Lantus to Lev. He's a high dose kitty, so that part isn't comparable, but you'll be able to see the difference just by looking at the colors and numbers.
AZJenks
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/9 Jenks AMPS 175 +7 258 PMPS 153
153 at PMPS, not bad. Fed lower carb food for dinner (5% Special Diet Ocean Whitefish) and just going to let him cruise. Will give regular Turkey & Gibs for overnight feeding and see what happens.
Also just started a new pen, so we're committed to this for at least another four weeks or so.
153 at PMPS, not bad. Fed lower carb food for dinner (5% Special Diet Ocean Whitefish) and just going to let him cruise. Will give regular Turkey & Gibs for overnight feeding and see what happens.
Also just started a new pen, so we're committed to this for at least another four weeks or so.
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