9/9 Herman amps 99 +2 112 +4 86 pmps 115 +4 117 We have a “new” family member!

Amy & Herman

Amy & Herman

Member Since 2022
Yesterday

Looooong post alert!

Without dredging up my whole life’s story, over the last three nights we have welcomed “Ralf” into our home.

I adopted Ralf from a downtown shelter about 18 years ago when I lived and worked downtown. It was a brief stint, the rest of my life has been lived outside Toronto on a large equestrian farm with multiple dwellings.

Ralf is literally the coolest cat ever. Adopted from racks upon racks of poor cats in dark crowded rooms at the humane society I wasn’t able to see him but for his face looking out from the tiny cage (they wouldn’t let me take him out to see all of him). I heard this was the second time he had gone through the facility and I just thought ….boy…he’s been adopted and re-surrendered twice, he’s never getting out of here again, especially at the unkitten-y age estimated at 7. I never felt a downtown condo life was the best for cats as I grew up in a farm with indoor/outdoor cats but I figured it’s better than this, so I took him.

He adapted great! I walked him on leashes and took him to the farm for day trips with me. He was just a relaxed cool cat.

Fast forward a year and I was trying to escape an abusive relationship so I grabbed Ralf and whatever I could shove in a bag and left. Never looked back.

While I stayed with some friends as I tried to sort out a place to live Ralf moved in with another family on the farm.

When I secured my new “place” on the farm property where I would stay to this day, it came with its own resident tomcat!…..I tried bringing Ralf in but tomcat would not have it. So Ralf stayed where he was and gave this family 17 wonderful years, babies were born and they had a most awesome Ralf to grow up with. A sweeter, more gentle cat never existed!

Ralf is now estimated mid-20’s and I fear does not have many months left.

I have taken Ralf in to my home for his remaining time as he was making too much mess for the other family to deal with. He’s not as comfortable here as his home of 17 years, obviously, but not much choice. In the last month prior to my taking him we had vet work ups done etc to see if there’s anything we can do to help with his chronic diarrhea and urinating issues (on shoes etc). I spent over $1000 on tests etc (I’ve always paid his vet bills) and there was nothing glaring in the results. The vet suggested b12 shots (which I do weekly) and Leukaran (also weekly). His BG is on the high side but the vet said to just keep an eye on it. He’s usually mid-6 mmol.

He is mostly outdoors but is brought in around 8/9pm and has run of the house untill about 11pm where we made a comfortable area for him to sleep (I think he might be a bit deaf and he gets nervous around my dog and Herman at times so I think he’s safer enclosed, beyond managing his accidents). We close the area with dog gates so he is not completely shut away. He meows a fair bit. Wakes us up a lot… he’s always hungry so we feed him tons (he eats 2.5 cans of fancy feast between 11pm and 6am alone every night plus as much as he can eat through your the day!)

In the morning we let him out and he walks across the property to spend the day on the porch of his original “home”. At night we collect him again. Come cooler weather I need to get him more comfortable being here with me more. Before anyone asks, I know it’s not appropriate to move a cat at this age of their life but them keeping him has been made clear to me, is no longer an option.

So…here are my queries:
  • any advise to help discourage accidents in old pets (although based on stories they gave me he’s not making as many accidents here as he was in his other home)
  • He looks so thin, frail, poor coat …old (the vet actually thought he looked great for his age)…and I think has some dementia (is that possible?) …how do you know when it’s “time”…is he suffering? How can you tell?
  • Herman loves Ralf, has known him from outdoor play time his whole life, but Herman’s BG have been trending up…could Ralf meowing at night and Herman seeing him enclosed be causing him stress? He doesn’t seem stressed….but who knows!
  • I feel like Herman is peeing much less than usual. Is he peeing outside more because of Ralf? Unrelated? My imagination? Uti? What signs do you look for aside from getting urine tested.
Anyway sorry for the long post but there you have it! I welcome any advice on settling Ralf!
 
Here’s a picture of Herman and Ralf hanging out in my place about four years ago. He’s always come and made little visits.
upload_2023-9-9_10-1-59.png
 

Attachments

  • upload_2023-9-9_10-1-59.png
    upload_2023-9-9_10-1-59.png
    503.2 KB · Views: 140
Wow, Amy. What an amazing story. Ralf is such a lucky kitty! Just wanted to commend you on your care, love and a lifetime of effort for sweet Ralf. You’re amazing! I’m sending best wishes for Ralf and Herman’s peaceful and healthy coexistence!
 
Ralf does sound like an awesome cat. Amazing to be that old.

Some questions first. Does the vet have a theory on why the diarrhea? You said a lot of tests, just wondering which ones have been run so far. How is his weight trending? You did say he's eating a ton now, just wondering if he's absorbing the food properly. Why the Leukeran and how much every week? I've never heard of that protocol before. Did he have a GI panel blood work done? Had his thyroid tested lately? I'm trying to think of conditions that can cause diarrhea. Did his food change when he moved to your house?

Have you tried s. boullardi for him? Or other probiotics? More info on that here. It's great for stopping the diarrhea, as long as his B12 levels are now fine with the supplementation.

How many litter boxes do you have around the house now? How about spreading just plain puppy pads around and seeing if he's go there instead. I've seen a couple peeps here find that just pee pads or even pee pads in litter boxes are more attractive for the oldies but goodies. Do you think he might have arthritis making it hard to go in the box? Solensia as a possibility if so, and/or just cutting a low side in the box.

Amy & Herman said:
how do you know when it’s “time”…is he suffering? How can you tell?
Click to expand...
Yes, feline dementia is possible. A couple links of reading:
As for Herman peeing, how many times a day is normal? When Neko got regulated, a couple times of day was her normal.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Why the Leukeran and how much every week?
Click to expand...
2mg, suggested as treatment for ibd, she did mention she only read about it helping recently and mentioned some new research and we decided it was worth a try
Food has been consistent, I’d say his diarrhea is no worse than at their place, possibly better, he uses a litter box most of time, sometimes misses…, pees on a pee pad sometimes. He’s surprisingly agile and can jump on a counter, but looks a bit feeble on stairs.
Tested thyroid, urine, “Feline TLI, b12, folate IDEXX’, ran infectious diarrhea profile and “O&P”
He is on fortiflora as prescribed by vet.

as for Herman….he’s now pulling out his tail hair! :confused: He’s done this before and I attributed it to the neuropathy he experienced when he was unregulated which had completely reversed. His numbers are pretty good. I can’t imagine neuropathy is creeping in again?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
As for Herman peeing, how many times a day is normal? When Neko got regulated, a couple times of day was her normal.
Click to expand...
I have now witnessed Herman tear huge chunks of hair out of his (now thin!) tail base multiple times today. (I should add he pulls his tail and runs away hiding from me with huge mouthfuls of fur that he eventually swallows so, also, hairballs :() Although he was outside a lot today, less urine than usual in litter box, overnight I’ll pay special attention. Herman and Ralf have separate boxes for overnight (Ralf in enclosed in his own smaller area).

I searched tail pulling on this forum and found my own post from a couple months ago about Herman pulling tail and falling out of remission! He had a uti. Ugh…so it seems likely. Or perhaps FIC I’ve just started reading about. I guess I need to make another vet appointment :oops: is there any way to diagnose without a vet visit? So stressful! …I also have some spare clavamox, any wisdom in starting him on that or is that a bad idea?
 
Last edited:
Sounds like your vet has done the right tests, a GI ultrasound which would be the next step.
Amy & Herman said:
He is on fortiflora as prescribed by vet.
Click to expand...
Great flavour enhancer, lousy probiotic. If he does have IBD, I'd suggest Visbiome as a probiotic as it's designed for IBD. You can buy it on line. S. boullardi and Visbiome would be my suggestion for the diarrhea. Give at least 2 hours apart.

If IBD, then there could be a food allergy involved. Maybe time to try a novel protein, some meat type he might not have had before. Like lamb, venison, duck, pork, rabbit as examples.

Leukeran is a chemo drug, I'd only want to give it if I knew I had to. It can also cause nausea. Ondansetron given about 20-30 minutes before hand and 2-3 times a day for a couple days after can help. I am on my third cat who has taken Leukeran, Neko was #2. The usual protocols are 2 mg every other day or three times a week (older protocol), or a larger dose once every two weeks, based on cat weight. The latter is less toxic/less nausea.

Number of LB should be number of cats +1. Have you ever tried Feliway diffusers? Just wondering if having a full time second kitty in the house is causing Herman some stress.

As for UTI and antibiotic, not a good idea. Giving an antibiotic now will mask whether he has a UTI, so should be started after diagnosis. And you want to make sure you know what (if) bacteria is causing the problem so you can use the appropriate AB. You could ask the vet if a urine free catch would be enough, though that's more likely to have some bacteria in it than a cysto. But the upside is you can do it at home without a vet visit.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Sounds like your vet has done the right tests, a GI ultrasound which would be the next step.

Great flavour enhancer, lousy probiotic. If he does have IBD, I'd suggest Visbiome as a probiotic as it's designed for IBD. You can buy it on line. S. boullardi and Visbiome would be my suggestion for the diarrhea. Give at least 2 hours apart.

If IBD, then there could be a food allergy involved. Maybe time to try a novel protein, some meat type he might not have had before. Like lamb, venison, duck, pork, rabbit as examples.

Leukeran is a chemo drug, I'd only want to give it if I knew I had to. It can also cause nausea. Ondansetron given about 20-30 minutes before hand and 2-3 times a day for a couple days after can help. I am on my third cat who has taken Leukeran, Neko was #2. The usual protocols are 2 mg every other day or three times a week (older protocol), or a larger dose once every two weeks, based on cat weight. The latter is less toxic/less nausea.

Number of LB should be number of cats +1. Have you ever tried Feliway diffusers? Just wondering if having a full time second kitty in the house is causing Herman some stress.

As for UTI and antibiotic, not a good idea. Giving an antibiotic now will mask whether he has a UTI, so should be started after diagnosis. And you want to make sure you know what (if) bacteria is causing the problem so you can use the appropriate AB. You could ask the vet if a urine free catch would be enough, though that's more likely to have some bacteria in it than a cysto. But the upside is you can do it at home without a vet visit.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for all this useful information…adding a third LB today and Feliway diffusers also arrive today, I already had the part that plugs into wall just hadn’t felt need for refills in a while, I used them around the house when Herman was first diagnosed.

Are S. boullardi and Visbiome 2 different things, and they are to be given two hours apart? I have Proviable DC capsules, would they be an option?

Changing to a novel protein will take a bit of effort but I’ll start moving on that. Herman does so well on FF and will be hard to keep foods consistently separate.

Is it your option to skip the Leukeran altogether?

I’ll ask my vet about a clean catch, not certain I’d be able to do it though! I’ll try today. If by chance I’m successful , how long is the specimen viable? If I got some today and kept in jar in fridge, would I be able to give to vet Monday if she is ok with it? Or is it something that must be done same day,
 
I was going to suggest the diffusers, but you’ve already got them coming! Hopefully they help. Both of your boys are so gorgeous and Ralf is so lucky to have you! I hope everything works itself out :bighug:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top