9/26-Fitzel - AMPS-182/+2.5-123/+6-147/PMPS-168

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Shai and The Pirate Fitz (GA)

Member Since 2012
Pirate Fitzel's Condo Cove

I get that this morning is a bounce from yesterday.

What I'm confused about is why suddenly Fitzel needs insulin this often. She's had three 1 drop shots in a row from 22 to 18 hours apart. This hasn't been her pattern for several weeks. My guess is that it might be Amma. The kitten is being brought out (in hand as she's too little to let loose with older/bigger siblings) and Fitzel abhors her to the extreme! But then, the Pirate hates her other siblings equally.

Otherwise, her WCR is okay. I do wish her appy would perk up w/o FortiFlora but as long as I can get her to eat then I guess I'm happy. She hasn't gained back any of the weight she lost and so I can still feel her backbone and ribs. But, she hasn't lost anymore weight. I'd really hate to take her to the vetty if I didn't have to. It's a trauma she doesn't get over for days - sometimes 3 days. She won't eat. She just hides. She cries and cries. All this when she comes home and during the ride there, she throws herself against the soft carrier until she's foaming and a bit disoriented. We've had vets come to the house, but when they try to work with her she bites and scratches and screams. It's awful. At least taking her to a vet she becomes so exhausted, they can do what they need to do.

But, I'd hate to put her (or mommy bean) through any of this if not necessary. As Pirate Fitzel is a strange kitty in regards to the regular protocol I'm open to any thoughts keeping in mind she's a bit outside the box.

Hoping all are having good positive days and healing vines to all in need.

Shai
 
Re: 9/26-Fitzel - AMPS-182 (bouncing!)

Shai, no knowledge on the insulin issue, but it could very well be stress from Amma. On the vet issue, tho....one of my civvies, Shnookie, gets hugely stressed over a vet visit as well. He's nearly 20 lbs, so when he gets fractious, people get hurt. He also poops uncontrollably all over everything. Vet has given me Acepromazine to give him before a vet visit. He said 2 hrs before, but I've found it works better given 1 hr before. It has really worked wonders for Shnookie. No more pooping, no more trying to bite and scratch the vet and techs. The most he's done is hiss one time. Maybe you could ask your vet about something like that.
 
Re: 9/26-Fitzel - AMPS-182/+2.5-123

I suspect it's the kitten as well. Fitzel can smell her.... under the door, on you...

I have the same issue with Shadow. We have an outdoor cat who adopted us and I could never bring him in because it would aggravate Shadow. But she's almost 13 so more inflexible.
She's never had a younger cat challenge her. I know her personality all too well.

Our shelter is currently overflowing with cats that need to be only cats.
Did you ever try the rescue remedy. I just got a bottle and I'm going to read on it tonite to see what to do with it.
 
Re: 9/26-Fitzel - AMPS-182/+2.5-123/+6-147

Oh I don't like this at all. Uh uh. It could still be part of the bounce from last night. Or it could be left over Temptation HC residue. Or her pancreas is in trouble again.

@ Anne & Muffin - wow I used to give 'Ace' to my horse when I trailered him. It's been awhile since I've delt with that drug but I know the value of it and it never occurred to me to use it on a cat. Maybe because I'm thinking of the size is the syringe I used on my very big boy. :shock: Thank you for bringing it back to my attention. Hope all's well with Muffin. I haven't had time to pay visits today.

@Rhiannon- the Rescue Remedy works great on me :? Not so much on Fitz. Hopefully you'll have better results with Shadow. I didn't realize Shadow was 13. Fitzel is 12 so they're kinda in the same boat as far as age. I haven't had time to visit the last week and I hope shooting time has become less stressful for both of you. I know this was a huge concern.
 
Re: 9/26-Fitzel - AMPS-182/+2.5-123/+6-147

WOW...Unexpected BG's for sure! Is Fitzel ordering hi carb delivery from the local pet shop?
Got me wondering for sure. :dizcat
Amma.... could be causing stress in the house.
I had to keep Sophie & Tucker seperated in different rooms, with the door just slightly opened for kitty sniffin and gettin to know yous. I could not leave them together for months without us watching them.
I was told to pay 150% more attention to senior cat Tucker, to make him feel superior. Little Soph didn't know any better, so she didn't mind.
They still don't love each other, but they do play during a blue moon or a total solar eclipse. Tucker will allow Soph to eat her food, while he eats his, 6in apart. They do have their own bedrooms for day long naps!

Another thing I did, was brush both cats with the same brush, full of each others fur, to get the smells of each cat mingled together.
Just thoughts......
 
Re: 9/26-Fitzel - AMPS-182/+2.5-123/+6-147

I thought this from Carl gave a great explanation of the process, as a refresher....
Carl & Bob » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:04 pm

What happens metabolically when kitty starts to think about healing process?

This might help?
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Remission
Proposed Mechanism for Feline Diabetic Remission
Steve and Jock propose the following mechanism for remission in diabetic felines. This hypothesis relies on three premises:
1. Damaged feline pancreas can regenerate in 8-12 weeks, as livers are generally already accepted to do.

2. Hyperglycemia temporarily suppresses most insulin production in cats (as per Hodgkins and later also Rand[citation needed]).

3. Glucose toxicity plus amyloidosis permanently damage pancreatic beta cells[8]

If these three are all proven, then a mechanism suggests itself:

Beta cells are originally suppressed by some transient condition (such as high steroid dose, insulin resistance or overly high carbohydrate diet).
Consequent insulin shortage causes hyperglycemia, which by premise 2 suppresses beta cells and stops insulin production, keeping condition diabetic.
Glucose toxicity, by premise 3, damages pancreas, including newly regenerated cells, and prevents recovery.
Insulin therapy + low-carb diet keeps blood euglycemic for 24 hours out of 24 over a few days allowing insulin production to resume, though insulin resistance from damaged tissue remains.
Continuing euglycemia from insulin therapy and low-carb diet allows oxide-injured tissue to heal, reducing insulin resistance, leading to reduction in insulin dose.
Long-term euglycemia from Insulin therapy + low-carb diet over 8-12 weeks stops toxic oxidization of regenerating pancreatic cells, allowing more undamaged beta cells to produce insulin.
Required basal insulin supplementation drops to zero when newly-regenerated pancreas gradually reaches about 50% capacity, though bolus supplementation may still be needed in high-carb diet -- so no such diet should be attempted.
Pancreas, if unstressed by further blood sugar spikes, may continue to recover lost capacity as new cells regenerate.
Proving this mechanism might require studies to prove premise 1 and reinforce premise 2. Premise 3 is adequately shown, and the conclusion, that a low-carb diet plus careful slow-acting basal insulin supplementation, slowly decreased over 8-12 weeks, produces remission in more than half of newly-diagnosed cats, is shown by Rand & Marshall.
Note: According to Dr. Danielle Gunn-Moore and (she says) Dr. Jacquie Rand, these points "clearly describe the currently accepted hypothesis for DM remission in cats".
Click to expand...
 
Re: 9/26-Fitzel - AMPS-182/+2.5-123/+6-147

I don't have an answer for you, Shai.

The only thing I can think of is she has something going on that is causing her pain and/or stress but I don't know.
 
Had to shoot again tonight. Very unhappy mommy bean. Tomorrow I'm bringing Amma in for her immunity shot - I'll talk with this vet about Fitzel. The Vet who dx Fitz is totally against home testing so I don't feel that's the place to return.

@Chris & Tucker - wow - thank you for that repost from Carl and Bob - technical, but I think I get it. Having a new kitty in the house is so similar to a new baby in the house with an older brother or sister. I've got one older sister and when I was born she was 5 and in kindergarten. She told her teacher that Mom and the new baby were in an automobile accident and got killed. :shock: That lasted until her teacher called my mom at home and found my mom - at home - with me - the new baby.

Right now Amma has her very own room and is separated from the rest of the household - except when either Judith or I will bring her out in arms to visit a bit. When Amma is out for playing - we block off the entire back of the house and that's where she plays and runs. The other cats can't get to her, though they can smell her under the doors and of course, hear her playing.

I like the idea of the same brush. I'm going to try that on Fitzel and Amma. Magpie and Hobson don't really seem to care about her.... yet. But that might change when Amma's allowed out with them.... like in the same rooms at the same time.

@Marje - I'm beginning to think you're right. Fitz might have something else going on. I'll be talking with Amma's vet tomorrow and see how she feels about home testing and if she'd run some blood tests on Fitz. :sad:

shai
 
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