9/18 Shadow U/S IBD or Lymphoma

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rhiannon and shadow (GA)

rhiannon and shadow (GA)

Member Since 2012
We are home from the vet.
Shadow has eaten and is now licking that fur or lack of...
She had several shavings.... belly but also some legs and neck trying to get blood. She had enough handling and wasn't cooperating for the blood draw
and they finally got enough out of her leg.
She was fasted so I sure didn't want to have to do that again.

Her weight is pretty much the same.
The U/S vet thought her abdomen was a little bloated , especially for a fasted cat.
At first he thought her stomach was abnormal because of the angle but found a better angle and turned out it was okay.
But her pylorus is is thickened.... 5.1mm
muscularis layer thickened
Her spleen was normal but herechoic foci 2.7 mm and normal is 2.3mm
He also saw ileo-colic lymph nodes 3.4 , 2.4 mm
and those usually aren't seen.

Her small intestine was also thick.


dx: The musularis layer of the pylorus and all intestines is thickened suggesting IBD or GI lymphoma. A full thickness surgical bipsy is needed to
differentiate. The abdomen seems sensitive to transducer pressure. The adominal fat appears hyperechoic suggesting inflammatory response.
Consider novel protein diet, Z/D diet, flagyl as an antiimflammatory. Consider probiotics ( she's on fortiflora) Avoid steroids because of diabetes.



So I obviously have more to learn lickity split.

I thought IBD was usually accompanied by diarrhea which she does not have. That has all been normal.
She eats turkey, chicken, brushtail, seafood and venison, rabbit. She doesn't really like lamb or beef.

so that's a question.....
the lack of bowel issues to me makes me feel like it's more likely lymphoma. But remember, my indian name is still "grasps at straws". :?

isn't there a blood test that can tell you if you are allergic to a specific protein? Or did I dream that?


I am trying to think about it all and I have to run to work but I knew some of you were wondering.
I'll have more questions .... some of you know this better than I do.

And I will get a shaved belly picture up when I return. She's preening for her close up.
 
(((Rhiannon))) Hugs to you and plenty of scritches to little Miss Shadow. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: We have a number of kitties here with IBD, Zener and Skooter come to mind right away, but I'm sure there are others. Deanna is dealing with allergies with Billie and just saw an allergist so you might want to check her recent condos.

I'd skip the Z/D diet - it's pretty high carb. Kind of hard to know what food is best if you aren't seeing diarrhea. Not that I'd wish that on you.
 
Hi Rhiannon and Shadow,
I'm so sorry for the worries you are having about Shadow's possible diagnosis.
Noodle had long-standing IBD (but they also mentioned the possibility of lymphoma, due to the thickening of several areas of the bowel.) He had been tried on several diets, novel protein, limited ingredient, etc. and Z-D was the worst among them. When we saw a new vet last spring, he wondered if Noodle's IBD might be triggered by diet and suggested allergy testing (first I'd heard of it, after ALL the vets we'd seen!) Anyway, the test did uncover several proteins Noodle is allergic to (salmon, soy and tuna being among them.) When we withdrew those allergens, his IBD improved immediately and he no longer has the bowel inflammation and other symptoms. He did have exploratory surgery later and his IBD had healed to the point where it was called "very mild" in the pathology report.
So--in a word-- NO, you did not dream that they could test for specific protein allergies. Also, my vet told me that some IBD cats don't suffer from diarrhea--their main symptom is vomiting. I guess ECID with IBD too. Anyway, all fingers and paws are crossed here, hoping for a good improvement for sweet Shadow.

Christi
Probably doesn't help, but Noodle's allergy test was done by Spectrum Labs and cost around $150.
 
Hi Rhiannon! I'm sending lots of vines to you and Shadow. I'm sure you will find a game plan to get her feeling better soon. Billie is having some allergy drama right now (hives & coughing), and we just saw an allergy specialist. She told me that allergy testing for food allergies can be unreliable, so she recommended a 4 week food trial with a novel protein instead. Although, it sounds like the allergy testing worked out well for Noodle, so maybe that's worth a try.

She said that fish is a very common allergen because of the histamines in it, so maybe eliminating fish would be a good place to start. Soy, egg, and dairy are also common allergens. Billie just switched from eating a bunch of different Merrick flavors to a novel protein option with limited ingredients - Evo venison. It sounds like finding a novel protein might be tricky with Shadow since she eats such a variety of proteins already. But, Evo and Hound & Gatos are two brands with really simple ingredients - no eggs, potato, or random fruit and veggie fillers. Hound & Gatos makes pork, which might be novel for her. They also make a lamb & duck blend but if she's not crazy about lamb, that might not work. Evo has a plain duck flavor. Z/D is high carb and the ingredients are pretty low quality.

This is a video/article overview about food allergies that I found helpful: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/he ... lergy.aspx

I am learning that allergies are a real pain, but once you figure it out, I'm sure it will help.
 
I already had it in my mind that the z/d would be bad..... it's science diet after all..... :roll:

she doesn't vomit either. She doesn't have those two common symptoms.

My dh thinks I should take notes since Shadow has been so finicky..... see if she has been trying to tell me something. So I'm going to do that for a few days and see if she is.

On foods she usually doesn't like anything But friskies....
she really would love her old food before fd dx.....
friskies turkey and cheese shreds..... only a mere 20% carb.... :roll:
Most of what she eats now is 10%..... and her numbers stay low.....


to get her to eat something like Evo will take major manipulation....
she eats most any brand the first try and then refuses it thereafter.

I will find out if we have an animal allergist anywhere .... Albuquerque?


I'm going to go stalk Shadow with the camera..... see if she feels like sharing her naked belly.
 
Add beef to the list of common allergens. Likewise, gluten can be an issue for many cats.

Some cats have had a good response to a raw diet.

As for the steroid issue, if this turns out to be lymphoma and steroids are indicated, it may mean that Shadow goes back on the juice but that's preferable to not treating the problem.
 
well... if I touch the belly....she attacks..... all I have so far is a blurry pic....
bad reminder of today.

I'm really at a loss . @-) nailbite_smile

I don't really want to put her thru exploratory surgeries....
 
{{{Rhiannon}}}

I have not advice, just wanted to add some moral support. IBD or Lymphoma - neither are any fun, but I guess I'd prefer it to be IBD. Sasha has mild IBD, and although she does throw up on occasion, it's not a chronic issue and her poos are fine. Truly ECID.

Good luck trying new fuds. I know how tricky that can be.

Sending lots of healing vines and scritches to Shadow.
 
My trick to get Billie to eat the Evo involves pork broth and fortiflora - pork broth because she might be allergic to chicken of all things. I boiled some pork bones, and I am pouring about a tablespoon of that broth in with the Evo, then topping it off with fortiflora. She's a picky lady, but we're on day 3 of that and she is eating it pretty happily now. I hope Shadow feels better soon. I would be at a loss too.

If she is a Friskies girl, will she eat Special Diet Turkey? It's LC according to Dr. Lisa's chart and its ingredient list is a bit more limited than most Friskies. It does have brewer's rice, but no fish.
 
Poor bare belly Shadow. We are sorry to read about the IBD or possible lymphoma. Our Zener and our civvie Tillie have both had to endure the shaved tummy U/S, though the beans thought they had very cute tummies, and the possible IBD or lymphoma diagnosis.

Sounds like similar results we got for Zener about two years ago. We opted to not do any biopsies and treat as IBD. Our vet could have done the procedure but would have preferred we go to an internal medicine vet over 3 hours away. We just couldn't do it. We tried novel proteins but Zener is so picky he will only eat two kinds of food period - one is fancy feast chicken florentine and the other is high carb fancy feast turkey with gravy. So, we were never successful with manipulating his diet. He didn't vomit or have diarrhea either. He had more trouble with poor GI motility, constipation and poor appetite.

Just this year, he had a bad spell where he wouldn't eat at all and we thought it was the end. Our vet said we should try Budesonide, a steroid that is more specific to the GI system, and we could work the insulin around it. He started eating again and did pretty well. We had to go up a bit on his insulin but all in all he was still around 2u. Last month, he had another bad period again, and we had run out of ideas. Our vet suggested we switch the Budensonide for the prednisolone, which she had hesitated to prescribe in the beginning because of his FD. But, what did we have to lose? He has done much better on Prednisolone then the Budesonide. One of the side effects is appy stimulation and he has gained back some of the weight he lost when he was not eating well. And we had to increase his insulin a little but now he has gone back down again to around 2u.

We hope Shadow has better appy than Zener and you can get some good results with diet changes.

Anne
 
Hey Rhiannon ~

Unfortunately, this is a topic I DO have some knowledge on.

I went through the same thing with Skoots about 7 years ago. He had a pretty bad case that started out just with the vomiting. Several vets told me that he just ate his food too fast, so I was at the point where I was spreading out his food over half of the floor of my then apartment, which looked as ridiculous as it sounds. He eventually did have bad bouts of diarrhea and he went from about 17 pounds to about 8 pounds, very quickly....which was just horrifying to see.

Finally, transferred him to his current vet. They did some testing and said either lymphoma or IBD, they present very similarly. We started him on a small dose of prednisone to see if that would work and he just got worse. I did end up deciding to do exploratory surgery and get the biopsies done, and I am so glad I did.

They ended up taking 10 biopsies up and down his GI tract I believe, all of which came back negative. Then a miracle happened, I am not sure if it was the "cleanse" of not being able to eat before surgery or just having his system cleaned out during surgery, but as soon as he recovered, he was like a brand new cat. Active, playful, eating normally and not throwing up. The way the vet explained the IBD to me was basically the cat can't digest food, so it ends up throwing it back up and they never feel full. So they can eat and eat and eat and still feel like they haven't had anything.

After surgery he was on prednisone for a few weeks, along with typical ABs for after surgery etc. We were doing two liquid medications twice a day and three pills three times a day for a few weeks. After that, he only used prednisone when he had a flare up. Once he started getting really bad again, he went long term. Once he was diagnosed with diabetes, the vet immediately took him off the pred and we have started using budesonide, liquid form. I guess it is a little gentler on the system and less likely to cause side effects.

I have to say, after all was said and done, doing the surgery was worth it because it gave me piece of mind. At least when it was presented to me, if it was lymphoma there really wasn't much they could do and they couldn't tell me how much time he would have, but they could provide some treatment and if it was the IBD then he could be treated and hopefully be ok.

I have never tested Skooter for food allergies as he did so well on the (horrible) dry food he had with occasional flare ups....so far I have only given him one novel protein and one brand....with how sensitive his stomach can be, I wanted to transition very slowly. At this point, unless he starts turning his nose up at his chicken, I probably will stick with that. But that would definitely be something worth looking into.

I also belong to a FB group for IBD cats eating raw. I eventually would like to transition him to a raw diet (the "from the store kind", not homemade)....they also advocate using a probiotic. I know a lot of people on here use Fortiflora, but they recommend one caleed Nexabiotic. You work your way up over the course of a few days to half a capsule a day. I just got mine in the mail and will be starting him on it on Sunday (they say you should be around for the first few days to see how they are taking to it).

Not sure if any of that helps, but sending hugs and healing vines....
 
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