9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3.5 35 +7.5 50 +10.5 45 +12.5 55 skip

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Suzanne & Cobb(GA)

Suzanne & Cobb(GA)

Member Since 2013
Yestersday

Okay, I'm in uncharted territory here. Could use some advice...

Last night, Cobb's AMPS was 62, his +2 was 91. We should have gotten a test later in the cycle, but we were all sleeping.

This morning, Cobb's AMPS was 61, his +3 was 38 and retested at 41. Fed high carb, and waiting to retest.

Last night I shaved his dose to 21.75. Today I backed it down to 21.5. Call me a chicken, I'll squalk for you. :lol:

But seriously...I need some advice. What to do next? What to dose tonight? What's going on - IAA broken, pancreas sputtering back, hormone output slowing?? (Feel free to guess on what's happening...I know Cobb isn't talking.)
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41

Yikes, Cobb. Take it easy, Mister.

Suzanne, can't answer any questions or offer any insight. Your theories all make sense to me, but I'm in way over my head with all this stuff. But I'm sending lotsa light that Cobb decides to bring his numbers up and settle down for you.

Marilyn and Polly
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41

First, re-test in no more than 30 min. to make sure numbers are on the way up. If Cobb's numbers aren't coming up, you'll need to be aggressive with the carbs. When acro is potentially in the mix, food can cause numbers to drop.

He's going to need a bigger dose reduction. Because he's high dose, everything when it comes to dosing is super sized. I think you're going to need to wait and see what the cycle looks like, though, before deciding on what to do tonight.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41 +3.5 35

+3.5 35

Gave some more 13% food with some karo on top. Had to open the karo that we bought 1.5 years ago when he was first diagnosed.

Will test again in a few minutes.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41 +3.5 35

Can only offer that Polly doesn't really come up with food, even hc gravy. It takes a drop or two of honey for me to see any climbing action. C'mon Cobb.

Marilyn and Polly
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41 +3.5 35

Cobb has historically come up with HC food. Historically. I feel like history can't guide me right now. Gut feeling though.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41 +3.5 35

Hi Suzanne, how exciting to see Cobb doing so well. I hope you're able to get him up soon and that he'll have a nice SAFE green surf for you. Looks to me like you'll want to not be too conservative with the Karo if you only have 13% food. I found that I had to give Zeke much higher carb (gravy only from 17% to 20% food) than 13% when he was working on a reducie. Good luck today. Paws and fingers crossed that Cobb continues seeing these nice BGs of late.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41 +3.5 35 +4 68

Thanks Laura!

I didn't get to the store last night but we're going today (assuming Cobb cooperates with those plans). And I'll get some higher carb then. The karo brought him up nicely but I know it also wears off quickly so we'll keep an eye on him!
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41 +3.5 35 +4 68

Most cats go up and down in dose. Look at how his spreadsheet has turned green. You've got the perfect confluence going on - apparently he doesn't have any concurrent illness and you've gotten him to a "good" dose with an insulin that's working for him. When cats have that happen, they go down in dose. We don't know if Cobb has acro or not, but either way his pancreas could be supplementing what you are shooting.

If you want him to stay green, i'd probably reduce to about 21.0u tonight. If you want to move him out of the greens, you could give a one time shot of 11 units to drain the depot, then come back tomorrow morning with a new dose of maybe 20-21u.

but hey - other than playing in the 30's, he looks great! what a change from the past for him!
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41 +3.5 35 +4 68

Suzanne --

Nice job!

I use Karo with Gabby since she doesn't do well with the gluten in HC food. What I've found with her is that if I give a small amount of LC with the Karo, the LC helps to keep the Karo from spiking the numbers and then have then drop down too quickly. You're combining a carb with a protein and that helps to prevent too much BG spikiness.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41 +3.5 35 +4 68

That's a heck of a way to start a Caturday, isn't it? :shock: Hope Cobb is surfing safely for you now.

Thanks for providing the Matty update yesterday - even though he is breakin' your heart. ;-)
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41 +3.5 35 +4 68

Wow Cobb - way to wake the bean up today! :shock: :mrgreen: Hop on that surfboard, I hear the 70's and 80's are THE place to be.

I agree with Julie - I'd go to 21U as his next dose. If his IAA is breaking, it can be a wild ride. Neko was at 8.5U when we started going down, and we were doing .5U decreases 2 or sometimes 3 times a week. I think I'd stick to 1U decreases for the next little while, just in case. Much easier to go back up than trying to stay ahead of breaking IAA and a large depot.

I like Sienne's idea of karo on top of LC. When I've tried a higher LC, close to MC with Neko, it's backfired and her pancreas kicked in at a inappropriate time. There are some non gluten HC foods out there. Cowboy Cookout is my current fav and it seems to take less of it than FF gravy lovers to boost her.

BTW, what you may have been seeing today is a nadir at +15.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41 +3.5 35 +4 68 +5.5 100

Wow, it's almost surreal to see Cobb in these numbers. It's wonderful, but I'm sure you would prefer a little less drama. Surf safely now, Cobb. Mama needs to go buy you some more fuds! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41 +3.5 35 +4 68 +5.5 100 +7.5

And we are on our way back down.

I am now armed with HC food. I like the LC and karo idea as well. HC will be easier for Matt if Cobb dips and I'm not here.

I do wish I knew exactly what was causing him to go low, IAA breaking, whatever. But we'll stick around for the rideamd see what happens!

Thanks for all your help so far!
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41 +3.5 35 +4 68 +5.5 100 +7.5

Whoa! Back down to 50 from a 100? Come on Cobb, let's not get all crazy on your mamabean. Come on up to a nice comfortable number ok? It's a nice day for a surf in the 70s.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38,rt41 +3.5 35 +4 68 +5.5 100 +7.5

I think with IAA, there can be periods of antibody die off. That doesn't mean they are gone forever, just that the old ones go away before there are new ones to replace them. But all you can do is lower the dose and see what happens. Are they gone for good or are they coming back? Do not be afraid of lowering the dose. Think in percentage. Think 10%.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38 +3.5 35 +7.5 50 +9.5 50 +10.5 45

Am I doing something wrong?? I can't keep Cobb over 50!! He's very happy to be getting all this food. I gave him some 23% food that I got today.

I'm getting concerned about shot time...again. I'm leaning towards Donaleen's suggestion of a 10% decrease for tonight. That would be a shot of 19.5u.

Thoughts??
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38 +3.5 35 +7.5 50 +9.5 50 +10.5 45

Looks like the larger depot is getting ahead of you. The other option is to do something like 1/2 to 2/3 of regular dose tonight to drain the depot some, then start the new dose tomorrow. Know that you could still have a busy first half of the cycle. Even a 10% reduction for tonight may not be enough. Cobb is being very insistent! :shock: He must love that new food.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38 +3.5 35 +7.5 50 +9.5 50 +10.5 45

i would go with the 1/2 dose tonight, then come back to a new reduced dose tomorrow morning. the one time very-reduced dose tends to clear out that depot action and hopefully, will keep you from doing this all night. If he's still skating along low at shot time, you could even skip.

i agree with wendy - what you're seeing now is a too-full depot. doing tiny decreases when you've got a big dose really don't change the following cycle's numbers much. The depot keeps on giving based upon the prior larger dose.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38 +3.5 35 +7.5 50 +9.5 50 +10.5 45

are you mostly giving the gravy rather than the food, suzanne? the carbs are primarily in the gravy.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38 +3.5 35 +7.5 50 +9.5 50 +10.5 45

julie & punkin (ga) said:
are you mostly giving the gravy rather than the food, suzanne? the carbs are primarily in the gravy.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm only giving enough food for him to chew. It's smothered on gravy.

When he got up to 100 earlier, I gave MC topped with karo bc he looked at the syrup like "what am I supposed to do with that?"
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38 +3.5 35 +7.5 50 +9.5 50 +10.5 45

mmm, sorry for yet another post. i wanted to go back and look at cobb's ss again.

i think today is a result of the past 2 dose reductions. when he went low on 22.0u, you just decreased by 0.25u. (about a 1% reduction), and then you did another 0.25u reduction this morning. that's not a terrible thing or anything - i know you're trying to keep him green, but the take-away point from it is that he has too large of a dose and depot to have that small of a reduction change the subsequent cycles.

Does that make sense?

honestly, i'm sorta leaning towards encouraging you to skip tonight. even with a skip, with this size of a dose you still might be seeing low numbers for the next cycle. i'm thinking it's important to get him stabilized before you have to go back to work on Monday morning and he's alone.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38 +3.5 35 +7.5 50 +9.5 50 +10.5 45

i stirred the karo into punkins food when i gave it. sometimes i mixed it into the gravy. it's so hard to get much gravy out of a can, so i often used karo along with it.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38 +3.5 35 +7.5 50 +9.5 50 +10.5 45

julie & punkin (ga) said:
mmm, sorry for yet another post. i wanted to go back and look at cobb's ss again.

i think today is a result of the past 2 dose reductions. when he went low on 22.0u, you just decreased by 0.25u. (about a 1% reduction), and then you did another 0.25u reduction this morning. that's not a terrible thing or anything - i know you're trying to keep him green, but the take-away point from it is that he has too large of a dose and depot to have that small of a reduction change the subsequent cycles.

Does that make sense?

honestly, i'm sorta leaning towards encouraging you to skip tonight. even with a skip, with this size of a dose you still might be seeing low numbers for the next cycle. i'm thinking it's important to get him stabilized before you have to go back to work on Monday morning and he's alone.
Click to expand...

Well, I was easing him down bc I know the protocol calls for 3 dips under 50. And he only had one. That was the thinking for the small decreases.

We are discussing skipping, but that makes me nervous too.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38 +3.5 35 +7.5 50 +9.5 50 +10.5 45

From the TR protocol sticky
Caregivers whose kitties have "High Dose" conditions may find the need to reduce in whole units or more.
Please ask for advice.
Click to expand...

With an acro or IAA cat, I'd ignore the rules for longer term diabetics unless Cobb shows he needs it.
 
Re: 9/13 Cobb AMPS 62 +3 38 +3.5 35 +7.5 50 +9.5 50 +10.5 45

Wendy&Neko said:
From the TR protocol sticky
Caregivers whose kitties have "High Dose" conditions may find the need to reduce in whole units or more.
Please ask for advice.
Click to expand...

With an acro or IAA cat, I'd ignore the rules for longer term diabetics unless Cobb shows he needs it.
Click to expand...
I must have overlooked that part. Whoops!
 
Ok, I am skipping Cobb's shot tonight. He's at 55 @ +12.5 so I'm not comfortable giving him anything. I'm sure he'll go sky high with a skip though. I'm not thrilled about that.

Now...what to shoot in the morning? 10% less and see how he responds to that?
 
Good call on skipping. You get to sleep and his depot should be in good shape for Monday. :-D I'd still get a test or two tonight, to make sure he's still behaving. He had a lot of sugary goodness today.

I'm interested to see how he does compared with his reduction on the 1st. That time you did a half dose, but although he was green, he wasn't so relentless about it. His last reduction he was only .5U above where he is now. If you did a 10% ish reduction, 20 has a nice easy to read line on the syringe. ;-)

Something to keep in your back pocket as a possible technique if you find the reductions start happening frequently. When Neko went into dose freefall a couple years ago, I went off protocol and I did reductions if she went under 70. It gave me just a bit more wriggle room for safety and we were still doing reductions fast and furious. That was something the folks at CSU had suggested to me. I went back to reductions under 50 when she slowed down.
 
I will keep an eye on him this evening. I was thinking, if I happen to awake around 12:30 and if he's high enough, I could shoot him then, and then shoot him tomorrow night. So 18 hours apart. Let the depot drain, but not drain for 12 hours.

Thoughts on that??
 
Suzanne & Cobb said:
I will keep an eye on him this evening. I was thinking, if I happen to awake around 12:30 and if he's high enough, I could shoot him then, and then shoot him tomorrow night. So 18 hours apart. Let the depot drain, but not drain for 12 hours.

Thoughts on that??
Click to expand...
That sounds smart and is an interesting thought Suzanne. Let's see what others say to that.
 
it's a very good idea. two 18 hour cycles might have less of an impact than entirely skipping one shot. hard to say, but nothing to be lost by trying it out and seeing how he responds to it. if he's not high enough that you can safely leave him and sleep, you might just let it go til morning and shoot him early - so maybe he'd have a 22 hr cycle or something.

i'm just thinking if you shoot something like a 90, i'd be a little nervous if you head off to bed for 6-8 hrs at that point.

i'm glad you skipped - i think letting him rise a bit is a good idea. besides, you'll need to sleep at some point.
 
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