9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Moving to Relaxed Lantus

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donaleen and Ozy

Member Since 2013
Yesterday http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=103853

No sleep and now Bounce Bounce Bounce....As good as we both felt yesterday, that's how bad we feel today. yuk! Ozy had to have Bupe this morning. I think the higher carb food I fed him when he got down to 51 last night may have caused a pancreatitis attack. Or maybe it is because his glucose is so high today. His pancreatitis has been much better lately until today.

Yesterday I made a testing and eating schedule that I was ready to put into action, but instead he went so low that I was up most of the night feeding him and monitoring him.

Green may be good for healing his pancreas but bouncing to hot pink is not. Not happy about this. Caught between a rock and a hard place. I just don't see why this process cannot be easier.
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Between a rock and a hard place

I hope Ozy will come down soon and feel better. FD is no fun and these bounces are hard to deal with. Hang in there, as Ozy's body heals, he'll get used to the lower numbers and the bouncing will get better.
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Between a rock and a hard place

donaleen

I'm sorry you feel LL is not a good place....or is it just FD?

I'm also sorry Ozy is not feeling well today. I understand fully how the bounces (or high number from pain?) can make you feel, having a bouncy girl. I know it is difficult to not be on an emotional high when they are doing well and have your entire day ruined by those bouncy numbers. But, honestly, I don't think that's such a bad bouncy number. And he's been looking so great!! He might just clear quickly and get right back to business. I do hope he feels better and the bupe eases his pain.

It's taken us a long time to just not let those bounces get us down; yes...it's different if Ozy's ptitis is flaring and he feels bad. But if it's just a bounce, try to get some rest, enjoy something you like doing. He'll come back down.

This is how I think about FD ;-) ;-)

Animated-Cats-LitteronaRollerCoaste.gif


:YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Between a rock and a hard place

Thanks, Marje. I feel terrible when the treatment makes him worse. He can hardly walk today; high numbers really kick up his neuropathy. He was meatloafing and in pain, but the bupe helped that; thank god for bupe. He is starving today...high numbers seem to do that to him. He needs to lose a little weight and feeding him all night is not the right thing for that, nor is having him starving.

I need something to feed him when he goes low like he did last night that is grain free and I am having trouble finding such a food. Maybe I should just add maple syrup or some sort of sugar to his food. At least it doesn't have grain in it.

I just don't see why there can't be a gentler way to regulate him. It seems harsh to make him go low and then bounce high. I feel like I am forcing his body into submission. I am worried his liver will give out next from working so hard to make glucose. He doesn't have a good history with pharmaceutical drugs. I am concerned that insulin treatment will be the next drug to damage him; he got as damaged as he is due to a rabies shot and prednisalone. Do no harm....

And it is a damn roller coaster. And I am too tired to hang on today. I don't feel like we are winning.

And how is Gracie? Thank you for taking the time when I know you have your own troubles.
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Between a rock and a hard place

Donaleen - I'm sorry you're feeling discouraged today. :YMHUG: We would all like to just quickly fix all our kitties' problems because it hurts to see them unwell. Just know that you are doing the right thing for Ozy. Insulin is what his body needs.

I know bounces are frustrating - I just counted (just for you ;-) ) and since Papaya started insulin last October, I have seen ONE HUNDRED THIRTY-SEVEN "black" preshots, 40 of which were off-the-meter "HI". Ugh! And looooooots of red and pink. BUT as frustrating as that has been, it definitely isn't the end of the world, because I can see she is much more her old self, and she is spending much more time in good numbers. Bounces pass faster now and don't seem to make her feel bad because they're usually only for a matter of hours before she's headed back into better numbers. And it turns out that a lot of cats who now have numbers very stable in blue and green were way bouncier in the beginning, so never think that Ozy won't get there too.

So try to take a deep breath and look at the big picture - Ozy has only been on insulin for a couple months. You're seeing lots more blue than you were at first, and some green. Bounces to pink aren't ideal but they're really not terrible, and if that's as high as Ozy bounces this early in the game then once his liver gets used to things hopefully he'll level out really nicely for you. The more time Ozy spends in good numbers, the more progress you are making.

Bounces aren't a step backwards, they're just a pause. Sometimes it just takes a bit of time to find the right dose, so hang in there and let everyone here help and support you and Ozy until things get easier. Take care, I'll be thinking of you and Ozy.
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Between a rock and a hard place

Hi Donaleen - I'm also sorry to hear your frustration. I hope you feel a little comfort knowing a lot of others feel the same way. I don't know a whole lot about Ozy's history, but you can always choose to treat him less aggressively. I don't think I have enough experience to advise that without doing more research and chatting with the more experienced folks, but I made the decision to start giving my cat dry food and switching to SLGS protocol because we were absolutely miserable! I do realize that I will have to deal with the ramifications of that decision which may include some sort of early organ failure because of the high BG. But it was the right decision for us. I can tell Bob feels better being higher and level than he did when he was going really low and then bouncing. He's also happier that he is now eating better. You just have to decide what works best for you and your kitty. Hang in there! You have lots of support here.
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Between a rock and a hard place

I am worried his liver will give out next from working so hard to make glucose. He doesn't have a good history with pharmaceutical drugs. I am concerned that insulin treatment will be the next drug to damage him...
Just a couple of reactions:

The liver doesn't make glucose. Glucose is produce by the breakdown of food. When food is digested, it's broken down primarily into glucose and water along with other components, some of which are excreted.

Insulin is hormone, it's not a drug. The beta cells of the pancreas secrete insulin. When those cells aren't working, we supply an external source of this hormone.
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Between a rock and a hard place

I thought bounces were caused by the liver freaking out and rasing the BG by making glucose from glycogen.

We're moving to Relaxed Lantis. I will test more than pre-shot so maybe that is semi-relaxed.

Thanks everybody for all you've taught me here and all the support.

donaleen
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Moving to Relaxed Lantis

Good luck. You have to find what works best for you and Ozy. I wish you the best and hope you can get Ozy regulated and feeling good.
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Moving to Relaxed Lantis

FWIW, you are welcome to use SLGS and post here. Relaxed is not a busy forum so help is limited. Also, regardless of whether you post in Relaxed or here, you will still need to get pre-shot tests and at least one test per cycle. Lantus dosing is based on nadir and that is the same regardless of which forum you choose to post in.

If there's a way we can better help you, please let us know. I can appreciate your frustration with the bounces but that is Ozy and it's unlikely that you can "force" his body to do anything but what it is going to do.

Glycogen is a stored form of glucose. After a meal, if there's more glucose than needed for the body's energy demands, some is stored, as glycogen, in the liver. If energy demands are more than what is currently available, the liver converts the glycogen back to glucose. This may happen at times of stress or with physical exertion. Glucagon is released by the pancreas and contributes to a bounce. Glucagon acts in a manner that is opposite to insulin, hence a bounce.
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Moving to Relaxed Lantis

I don't want to be held to the rules of Tight Regulation. So posting here seems wrong. I think you all must expect me to be further along than I am with all this.

Rhiannon sent me a PM and I wrote and sent a response. But I decided to make it public as well.

Thanks. Besides all the other things I said, I can't handle it when he gets below 90. If I had some sort of device that showed me his glucose all the time, and if he didn't feel so bad when he bounces, I think I could handle tight regulation. But as it is, I worry about him all the time. And three nights with no sleep, is more than I can do.

I also cannot handle the part where I get a low reading close to pre shot and have to wait for advice. I find it very stressful. And it doesn't help that email notification still doesn't work. I need rules I can interpret and apply myself. I have asked many questions that are unanswered. Answers that would help me do it myself.

Yesterday I backed off the testing because he was high. At +10 I was shocked to see him at 127. I didn't want to shoot that low. I didn't want to beg and wait for help. I didn't want to stay up all night. I didn't want low numbers. I didn't want a bounce. Getting off tight regulation will help all that.

I really appreciate all the knowledge and help that is here. But really, I am not that social an animal. It is hard for me here. I feel yelled at and ignored a lot. I am just not good in groups. I want to do it myself and not wait to be told what to do.

So those are my reasons.

Here is my planned testing and eating schedule:
AMPS test and feed
+2 test and feed
+4 test and feed
+10 test
PMPS test and feed
+2 test and feed
+5 test and feed
+11 test
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Moving to Relaxed Lantis

I'm sorry you don't feel comfortable here. TR is definitely not for everyone, but as Sienne said, you can still post here even if you're following start low/go slow. We have a few members who do that. The Relaxed forum is not as active as LantusLand, so you really may find it harder to get answers when you need them there.

BTW, you are doing an amazing job with Ozy!!

We've all been where you are now so we do understand your stress, and we'd love to help you feel more comfortable, but you have to do what works best for you and Ozy. Best wishes to you!
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Moving to Relaxed Lantis

Thanks, Amy. I can't deal with him going lower than 90 and I don't want to shoot when he is below 150.... sounds like relaxed Lantus will work better for me... with a bit more testing.

I picked up my subcutaneous fluids yesterday. I plan to try that today.
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Moving to Relaxed Lantis

I think you all must expect me to be further along than I am with all this.

I don't think any one thinks this way. We all know that Ozy is driving.... and leading in the sugar dance.

If only FD were something we had control of.... everyone would be in remission. It's so frustrating because of the lack of control ....

I have likened it to a 2000 piece puzzle laying on the table.... there are just so many variables/pieces .....


Hugs!
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Moving to Relaxed Lantis

Rhiannon is correct....we have no expectations because none of us are calling the shots. The cat's body is calling the shots and we are all along for the dance.

I think you might be surprised to see that moving to Relaxed and doing SLGS is not going to keep him from bouncing. TR is not what causes him to bounce. We also do not "hold" anyone to the rules. If you tell us you are doing TR, we provide suggestions to help you with those guidelines. But the TR protocol is just guidelines and sometimes they have to be modified for a specific cat. It's a place to start but there are some cats that need more flexibility. It doesn't mean you can't do TR; it just means we have to modify it to what works best for Ozy.

You will still likely get low pre shots and there are a lot less people in Relaxed; not only are there are a lot less people there, but there are a lot less experienced members. The "Dealing with Low Preshots" that is linked in my signature is all you need to deal with a low PS if no one is available to help you.

I'm very, very sorry if you feel you have been ignored and your questions not answered. I also am shocked that anyone has made you feel yelled at because that would never be our intent and I'm sorry if it has come across that way. If you can make a list of your questions, I'll be happy to answer them for you.

The testing schedule you propose is enough for TR. I think before you decide to switch from TR protocol to the SLGS Approach, you might want to look at some SSs. I think you'll find they are still dealing with the same issues you are.
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Moving to Relaxed Lantis

Marje,

Thank you once again for posting when I know you are having your own struggles with Queen Gracie.

You said TR is not what is making him bounce. But taking him so much lower than his liver is used to is exactly what makes him bounce. So if I avoid the greens, he shouldn't bounce so much. He is getting more used to blues and he doesn't bounce so much or as long from blue numbers. And **I** can't deal with numbers below 90. My panic is as bad as his liver's! I see no reason to force him down lower than 90. I know you all like greens. Not me. I want him in the blues. Maybe, if he comes under control in the blues I will consider greens, but not yet. I also do not want to shoot below 150. So those are my goals. So, please help me with how to manage that.

I reduced his dose this morning by a quarter. If I hadn't fed him at 51 the other night he would probably have "earned" a reduction anyway. But why make him go that low when I **KNOW** he will bounce and bounce for a few cycles and feel crappy and not be able to walk very well when he is high that long. Besides, the glucometers are not accurate enough to differentiate between 51 and 49. So why make 50 required to get a dose reduction?

I have tested pretty rigorously in hopes of learning something but I see no patterns or information in my spreadsheet except the following: his nadir is usually between +4 and +5 but not always. It can also be at pre-shot or any other hour. So that doesn't help me much that I see.

Your shooting low information says:

"Your data will help you here. Study the spreadsheet. How much food spike does the cat usually get? How many hours after the shot does the insulin’s onset usually occur in this cat? At what number is the cat likely to be when onset occurs? If the cat does drop, how easy/hard is it to regain control of the numbers? How carb sensitive is he?"

I can't answer those questions from the data. I have data but I can't make sense of it. Can you help me with my data and those questions?

I am having trouble finding a higher carb food that is grain free from the carb content food lists. Many of the grain free foods don't seem to be on the food lists. Is it okay if I just use a little simple sugar syrup instead? (karo is corn and corn is grain so I would make my own or just use my hummingbird food, which is sugar syrup). My plan is to feed him his own food and supplement with a little syrup. Given his pancreatitis and allergies, I don't want to introduce strange foods when he is low.

How can I tell IF a high number is a bounce?

What is a strategy for getting some sleep? I don't want him to go low in the night EVERY NIGHT. Free feeding is at odds with getting him to lose some weight. I would like to test only once in the middle of the night.. Before bed and +5 are my goals for night testing.

I would occasionally like to leave the house for as long as 6-8 hours. If he goes low, like say to 31 like he did in the night not so long ago, how long does it take before damage is done? I am feeling like I have about ten minutes. Do I have longer than that?

If I need a break from incessant testing (day or night), how can I get one? Last night I couldn't handle another night of being up so I gave him a token dose and went to bed. I did get up and test at +5. But I wasn't up all night like the previous two nights.

And why shouldn't I shoot a little early if he is high or a little late if he is low? Why not use timing to adjust the depot a bit?

So that is where I am...

thanks for listening. Hope you have some answers.
donaleen

Even more stressful than low numbers is waiting for an answer on the board. I swear that stress is going to kill me. I need to learn how to do this at least 90% of the time all by myself.
 
Re: 9/07 Ozy AMPS-316 Moving to Relaxed Lantis

A couple of points before I make a stab at responding to your questions. It is very likely that Ozy was diabetic for some time prior to his being diagnosed. Even with that, he was formally diagnosed in July. You've been working at his FD for roughly 2 mos. I realized how hard it is to see some of the kitties fly through here and are in remission after less than a month. That is atypical. Not all cats achieve remission.

One thing I don't think I realized is that your goal is for Ozy to be in blue numbers. It's fine if regulation is your goal. Not everyone wants to push for remission.

We really do take ECID (every cat is different) and EBID (every bean is different) seriously. You're the one who knows your cat best. If you think that Ozy doesn't feel all that great if he drops below 90, then SLGS sounds like it's better suited to him. We've certainly seen that there are some cats who, like Ozy, need to spend more time getting their system recalibrated to lower numbers so they start to feel better when they are in normal BG range.

I suspect you will need to remind us of your goals. If it's not too much trouble, can you add that info to your signature so there's less chance for confusion? That will help us to help you.

The rationale behind giving a dose reduction with numbers below 50 is based on research. The TR protocol is not just a convention we adopted. It's actually based on published research. As I noted above, if you prefer to us SLGS, reductions are based on 90 as the cutoff. That may be better suited to you and Ozy. Doses are also held longer with SLGS. They are held for a week vs. 3 days.

In order to determine if Ozy has a food spike, you would need to be routinely getting a +1. From the times you've tested then, it doesn't look like Ozy has a big food spike. If there's a spike, it is likely that the +2 will come back down and will be close to your pre-shot number. It looks to me like onset is at around +3. You have some nadirs at +4 - +6. I should point out, though, that nadirs can move. I think you may need to have more data to have a clearer sense of when Ozy's nadir falls most of the time.

As far as how easy or hard it is to bring dropping numbers up, you are the best gauge of that. Some cats are extremely carb sensitive. For example, Jill's Alex can get a 30 point rise in numbers from a piece of chicken.

Determining whether a high number is a bounce is a matter of seeing the pattern. Not everyone is good at seeing that pattern. If Ozy drops into lower numbers, drops fast, or drops into a number range that is not typical for him, there is an increased likelihood of a bounce. You will see a sharp spike in numbers or a rise in numbers that is progressively higher. (If you look at Gabby's Ss on 9/2 - 9/3 you'll see a bounce and the bounce clear.)

Sleep - that's harder. In the beginning, I didn't sleep much so I can relate. If you are seeing level numbers that are in the 100s or above, go to sleep. It looks like you are routinely getting a +4. Ozy's nadir seems to be falling at around that time. If the +4 is in a good range, go to sleep providing the numbers aren't dropping fast. Again, there are all sorts of circumstances here so you need to base your testing on the situation that evening.

If numbers drop low, it's going to take at least 30 min. for HC to kick in. You definitely have longer than 10 min. We've all had that panic on seeing numbers in the 30s. The fact that we urge testing is why you have control over the numbers. As long as you test, have strips, a meter, and HC, you are in control.

With TR, you need to test at pre-shot and get at least one additional test each cycle. I'm a bit fan of the +2 test. If the +2 is considerably lower than your pre-shot number, it can be a heads up that it a more active than usual cycle. That is one way to have a sense of how the numbers are going. I'd suggest getiting another test after the +2 during the PM cycle just so you can go to sleep without worrying. There are no guarantees here. Ozy, like all of our kitties will throw you a curve just because he can.

Shooting early is a strategy that is fine to use to take advantage of the overlap between doses if numbers are high. Delaying a shot (aka stalling) if numbers are low is one way to ascertain if numbers are continuing to drop. If you shift the shot time for one purpose or the other, your next shot is due 12 hours later. Fundamentally, because of the depot, Lantus like consistency. If you dose hop (i.e., base he dose on the pre-shot number vs. nadir) or don't shoot most of the time every 12 hours, the result is usually wonky numbers. It's like you keep throwing rocks into a pond. There's never enough time for the ripples to go away and things get unpredictable.

I hope I responded to your questions and the answers are reasonably clear.
 
Thanks for responding. I kept a diary of Ozy's symptoms for 2012 and 2013 and I think he was diabetic for about 9 months before being diagnosed. I explained here in his history; we had a vet who didn't recognize that his symptoms meant he was diabetic.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17uPbjdzpeXbEzRqidKBADOKsQH3yrww_HnqOx8Pl2aM/edit?usp=sharing

The vet who diagnosed him told me not to expect remission because of his chronic pancreatitis. I do want regulation, however. I wanted to try for tight regulation because I know lower numbers are healthier. But it is too hard on all of us. I am just not that good at being a surrogate pancreas.

Ozy feels fine when he drops low. But I am afraid of missing a low number because I am asleep or out of the house; I haven't been out of the house for more than a few hours since he was diagnosed; that needs to change. And when he bounces from being really low, he stays high for too long and then he feels bad. I don't always get a timely response on the board when I need one and I don't feel knowledgeable enough to always go it on my own. Those are the three reasons I want to stay away from green, at least now.

Yes, I know I can raise his numbers. I've done it a few times now. But what if he goes low when I am asleep or out of the house? How long can he be low before it becomes a crisis?

I modified my signature. I had to drop the link to his labs to fit it in.

thanks
donaleen
 
My vet told me I should try and avoid the greens and that would stop the bouncing. he was right. But what it did was cause Tiggy to stay in low yellow.. then high yellow.. then pink.. Glucose toxicity set in and we had to go to higher and higher doses to keep him from going too high!

At least with bounces Ozy is hitting normal numbers around half the time which is giving his body a break from the high numbers and allowing his pancreas to heal. I can see from his chart he started off nothing but yellows and pinks and now is doing much better with blues and greens which is progress!

But we may be able to help a way to manage it better to make it easier on you.

First testing - I dont know if you need to test as much as you are doing - we get a little test happy on here. For newbies on health I advise 4 times a day. 2 Preshot, one mid cycle and one before bed. A bit more if you see a low coming. A bit less if you see a bounce.

If you look closely at Ozys patterns you might start to see trends that will allow you to know when to go out ie.. a bounce takes him 8-12 hours to even start to clear. You said yourself he stays high a long time - make the most of that time! Since he only hits greens every few days so you can perhaps relax a couple of days on the tests and be more alert when you know a low is coming.

I would encourage you to try a little longer with the protocol though - he is getting better numbers all the time and who knows where he can go from there... Remission isnt out the question once you hit the right dose.

Wendy

PS for timely response - change the subject line to urgent, or start sending PMs to people that show "who is online" listed below. Or Send PMs to myself and Deb even if we arent online and we will try and help, or contact someone who can.
 
There's no telling if remission isn't possible. The pancreatitis is a factor to consider, though. I would suggest that a solid goal is to keep Ozy below renal threshold. This means keeping his numbers below around 230. This will help to prevent end organ damage.

I wish there was a way to offer you a guarantee that Ozy's numbers won't drop into a dangerous range. I have a similar concern many days when I leave for work. What helps me to head out the door is that I have a good handle on Gabby's patterns even knowing that she is quite capable of being a drama queen. If I have any concern, I leave extra food or HC food for her.

Re. Ozy's labs: I keep a page on Gabby's SS with her labs. It allows me to see any trends over time.
 
I very much appreciate the support.

What is glucose toxicity? I just looked it up...yet another horrible thing to contemplate.

I wish I had a better handle on his response to things. I want to be able to read the chart and use the data.

donaleen
 
I'm glad Sienne made it here to answer your questions.

Here is some good info on Glucose Toxicity. When kitties stay at higher numbers longer, it takes more insulin to break through those high numbers. Sometimes th dose might have to go up quite a bit to get to a breakthrough dose.

You said TR is not what is making him bounce. But taking him so much lower than his liver is used to is exactly what makes him bounce. So if I avoid the greens, he shouldn't bounce so much. He is getting more used to blues and he doesn't bounce so much or as long from blue numbers. And **I** can't deal with numbers below 90. My panic is as bad as his liver's! I see no reason to force him down lower than 90. I know you all like greens. Not me. I want him in the blues. Maybe, if he comes under control in the blues I will consider greens, but not yet. I also do not want to shoot below 150. So those are my goals. So, please help me with how to manage that.

A cat can bounce from a fast drop and also can bounce from blue numbers if they aren't used to them. That's why I don't think TR is the culprit. Almost all cats bounce whether the caregiver does SLGS or TR. Yes, the flatter you can keep them, the less they will bounce but just saying you want him to stay 100-200 doesn't mean he will because he's a cat :-D

I reduced his dose this morning by a quarter. If I hadn't fed him at 51 the other night he would probably have "earned" a reduction anyway. But why make him go that low when I **KNOW** he will bounce and bounce for a few cycles and feel crappy and not be able to walk very well when he is high that long. Besides, the glucometers are not accurate enough to differentiate between 51 and 49. So why make 50 required to get a dose reduction?

He doesn't have to go into green. If you want him in blue, tweak the dose so that's where he is.

I have tested pretty rigorously in hopes of learning something but I see no patterns or information in my spreadsheet except the following: his nadir is usually between +4 and +5 but not always. It can also be at pre-shot or any other hour. So that doesn't help me much that I see.

Sometimes it is hard to see patterns. I think Sienne gave you a good idea of what she is seeing. I will have to study it in order to give you my thoughts.

I can't answer those questions from the data. I have data but I can't make sense of it. Can you help me with my data and those questions?

Yes, I will look at his SS tomorrow and see if see anything to add to Siennes thoughts.

I am having trouble finding a higher carb food that is grain free from the carb content food lists. Many of the grain free foods don't seem to be on the food lists. Is it okay if I just use a little simple sugar syrup instead? (karo is corn and corn is grain so I would make my own or just use my hummingbird food, which is sugar syrup). My plan is to feed him his own food and supplement with a little syrup. Given his pancreatitis and allergies, I don't want to introduce strange foods when he is low.

Although its only 5%, I've found the WN Core turkey/duck works well for Gracie. Siennes Gabby is gluten sensitive so she uses honey with her LC food to manage low numbers. You can too!

How can I tell IF a high number is a bounce?
If numbers pop up really high, fast, after he's been in lower numbers, it's usually a bounce. If you have time, look at other SSs.

What is a strategy for getting some sleep? I don't want him to go low in the night EVERY NIGHT. Free feeding is at odds with getting him to lose some weight. I would like to test only once in the middle of the night.. Before bed and +5 are my goals for night testing.

I think Sienne gave you a strategy. I'd get a +2 at night and if it looks like he has the potential to come down, Id check again sooner. If his BG is way up from PMPS to +2, you are probably good for sleeping.

I
would occasionally like to leave the house for as long as 6-8 hours. If he goes low, like say to 31 like he did in the night not so long ago, how long does it take before damage is done? I am feeling like I have about ten minutes. Do I have longer than that?

Once we recognize his patterns, you will be able to figure out how long you can get out.

Code:
And why shouldn't I shoot a little early if he is high or a little late if he is low? Why not use timing to adjust the depot a bit?

You can!
 
I hope Ozy feels better pretty soon.
I can relate to your distress. I can't give any advise since I have joined the board less than a month ago, but I would like tell you some of the things that helped me.

Try to get some sleep. Small naps between tests are better than nothing. I was like you until the other day, very sleep deprived and crazy from worrying, when I was advised to take naps, and it made a huge difference. Tbh that was like the most precious advise I got, ever.
A little more sleep will help you be more relaxed and able to evaluate Ozy's situation better.

I agree that the TR protocol has a few difficult to follow guidelines. Like shooting under 100... that had me terrified, so terrified that I even felt defensive towards the people that had advised me to do so... But that was like shooting the messenger. People here just convey the knowledge they have accumulated from studies they read, and experience.
As I was told the one that holds the syringe is the caregiver... in other words Donaleen it's us that call the shots.

So don't give up... slow down for a bit to relax, you have already set you goals, get some more sleep and everything is going to work out :mrgreen:
 
donaleen and Ozy said:
But what if he goes low when I am asleep or out of the house? How long can he be low before it becomes a crisis?

I never leave the house without leaving some food out (unless it's in the last couple hours of the cycle when I KNOW it's safe). I mix water in with the wet food so it doesn't dry out. Then I know if Papaya goes low she will have something to eat to keep her safe.
 
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