8/8 Tigger AMPS 360
- Thread starter hnkstr
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Jaye and Chester
Member Since 2010
Hi, hnkstr...
I just glanced at your spreadsheet and I have a question, if you don't mind. I noticed that Tigger is on a pretty high dose of insulin and right now I'm raising my Chester's bit by by (he was on only .25 unit 2x but not regulating and losing weight). We've added kibble to compensate for the LC canned he wasn't eating and for the additional insulin.
Is Tigger a big boy or is there some other reason his dose is fairly high? Just wondering because I'm really scared to even raise Chester to 1.5 so I thought I'd check to see if there were other kitties on higher doses than mine. Are you just feeding 2x with low carb canned or do you supplement?
Thanks?
I just glanced at your spreadsheet and I have a question, if you don't mind. I noticed that Tigger is on a pretty high dose of insulin and right now I'm raising my Chester's bit by by (he was on only .25 unit 2x but not regulating and losing weight). We've added kibble to compensate for the LC canned he wasn't eating and for the additional insulin.
Is Tigger a big boy or is there some other reason his dose is fairly high? Just wondering because I'm really scared to even raise Chester to 1.5 so I thought I'd check to see if there were other kitties on higher doses than mine. Are you just feeding 2x with low carb canned or do you supplement?
Thanks?
PeterDevonMocha
Member Since 2009
Hi guys .. hope you had a nice vacation .. glad to hear you are going to get tigger into the vet's .. that should definitely answer some of your questions .. have a great day guys!
Melissa & Tarragon
Member Since 2011
Hey Brent! Glad to see you and I hope you had a nice vacation!
Hopefully you can get Tigger into the vet soon. Looks like he has some other issues going on.
Hopefully you can get Tigger into the vet soon. Looks like he has some other issues going on.
Ronnie & Luna
Member Since 2009
Hey Brent,
Im prob too late but u can also find the acro info in the acro forum, there is one here too - i will bump it so u can see it
Good luck with the vetty visit!
ok here it is the link viewtopic.php?f=9&t=45324&p=533342#p533342
Im prob too late but u can also find the acro info in the acro forum, there is one here too - i will bump it so u can see it
Good luck with the vetty visit!
ok here it is the link viewtopic.php?f=9&t=45324&p=533342#p533342
Sandy and Black Kitty
Member Since 2009
Good luck with the vet visit, hope you find some answers.
hnkstr
Member Since 2011
I wasn't expecting to get in today so I wasn't totally prepared, but had a nice long visit with the vet. She did a complete blood check including the thyroid.
She doesn't think its thyroid or Acro but she is checking the thyroid for sure, not sure about the Acro. He doesn't have the signs of that by what she was saying.
Now, he isn't your typical Diabetic cat, meaning getting it later in life and being over weight. He has actually lost .5 lbs since May and since I started the program here. After chatting with the Vet today and going over his history, I believe he was actually born diabetic and possibly since Momma showed up starving and pregnant with him. As a kitten he used to meow when he pee'd and thinking back he always pee'd alot but it just got worse as he got older.
We'll see what the blood looks like, but he looks great she said and vitals are good. She said for now to feed him what he needs and don't cut back to 4 cans. His body is in need of those calories right now. I'm going to stick with 8 units for 2 weeks and let him have up to 6 cans during that time to see what his body does.
I know there's a formula that states 3 cans is all he needs, but his body is demanding more, especially since losing .5 lbs on 4-5 cans of FF for 2 months.
She will be doing some research as well and consult some other vets and we'll see what the blood tests look like.
Anywho, that's the update. Thanks to everyone for your input and assistance with this!
She doesn't think its thyroid or Acro but she is checking the thyroid for sure, not sure about the Acro. He doesn't have the signs of that by what she was saying.
Now, he isn't your typical Diabetic cat, meaning getting it later in life and being over weight. He has actually lost .5 lbs since May and since I started the program here. After chatting with the Vet today and going over his history, I believe he was actually born diabetic and possibly since Momma showed up starving and pregnant with him. As a kitten he used to meow when he pee'd and thinking back he always pee'd alot but it just got worse as he got older.
We'll see what the blood looks like, but he looks great she said and vitals are good. She said for now to feed him what he needs and don't cut back to 4 cans. His body is in need of those calories right now. I'm going to stick with 8 units for 2 weeks and let him have up to 6 cans during that time to see what his body does.
I know there's a formula that states 3 cans is all he needs, but his body is demanding more, especially since losing .5 lbs on 4-5 cans of FF for 2 months.
She will be doing some research as well and consult some other vets and we'll see what the blood tests look like.
Anywho, that's the update. Thanks to everyone for your input and assistance with this!
Melissa & Tarragon
Member Since 2011
I am so glad you got in so quick and were able to have a good talk with the vet. Hopefully the blood work will show you if anything else is going on. Tigger will be happy with more food too. If he is losing on 4 cans, then his body must need more right now. Hope the vet visit gave you some peace of mind and you have a great night!
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
was the vet even familiar with acromegaly? most aren't.
Sandy and Black Kitty
Member Since 2009
Same with IAA and Cushings, 2 other conditions that call for high amounts of insulin. I presented my vet with a print out the information on which tests to order and where to send the samples. And I insisted. I didn't understand why I got push-back, but I persisted. Then son of a gun, what do you know, Black Kitty tested very high for IAA...julie1220 said:
Brent --
I would push to get the Acro and IAA tests done. At the very least, if they are negative, you are able to rule out these issues. If Tigger tests positive, you know you can be aggressive with dosing.
Did you need the info on how and what to send to MSU?
I would push to get the Acro and IAA tests done. At the very least, if they are negative, you are able to rule out these issues. If Tigger tests positive, you know you can be aggressive with dosing.
Did you need the info on how and what to send to MSU?
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
i would encourage you as well. if you either get a diagnosis of a high dose condition (acromegaly, insulin antibodies or cushings) then you can target towards treating the way those conditions need treatment. if they are ruled out, then you know you are dealing with "regular" diabetes.
for example, when punkin got diagnosed with the acro i changed the goal of how i was treating him. I'm no longer trying to keep him in the 50-100 range so that his pancreas can heal. that's the focus of the protocol we use here. his pancreas already works. the range i'm now going for is 100-200 - low enough to keep his organs from being damaged by excessive glucose, but high enough that i never have to worry about him going hypoglycemic.
a cat with acromegaly has a working pancreas, just like a non-diabetic cat. the key difference in the treatment is that when a "regular" diabetic cat drops too low, we give high carb food to pull up the BG. a cat who has a working pancreas - if you give them high carb food, their pancreas is going to release insulin to deal with the carb and that can cause a situation where it can be extremely difficult to pull their numbers up. you can get a vicious circle going - numbers low, carbs given, pancreas releases insulin to bring numbers down.
does that make sense?
it helps to know a diagnosis because it helps you focus the treatment appropriately to help the kitter. if i didn't hear differently i would assume your vet really doesn't know much about acro, not faulting her, but just because most vets don't have any experience with it. the tests for iaa and acro mean taking a blood sample & sending it to Michigan State University. there are specific directions from the lab on how they want the samples, and they run the acro tests only on wednesdays.
for example, when punkin got diagnosed with the acro i changed the goal of how i was treating him. I'm no longer trying to keep him in the 50-100 range so that his pancreas can heal. that's the focus of the protocol we use here. his pancreas already works. the range i'm now going for is 100-200 - low enough to keep his organs from being damaged by excessive glucose, but high enough that i never have to worry about him going hypoglycemic.
a cat with acromegaly has a working pancreas, just like a non-diabetic cat. the key difference in the treatment is that when a "regular" diabetic cat drops too low, we give high carb food to pull up the BG. a cat who has a working pancreas - if you give them high carb food, their pancreas is going to release insulin to deal with the carb and that can cause a situation where it can be extremely difficult to pull their numbers up. you can get a vicious circle going - numbers low, carbs given, pancreas releases insulin to bring numbers down.
does that make sense?
it helps to know a diagnosis because it helps you focus the treatment appropriately to help the kitter. if i didn't hear differently i would assume your vet really doesn't know much about acro, not faulting her, but just because most vets don't have any experience with it. the tests for iaa and acro mean taking a blood sample & sending it to Michigan State University. there are specific directions from the lab on how they want the samples, and they run the acro tests only on wednesdays.
I think you are possibly needing to push, no, state to your vet that you want to have Tigger tested for acromegaly and IAA. I know all about having to fight with a vet to get the tests done.
To say a cat does not have the signs is not a good enough reason to refuse the tests. Not all acros 'look' acro.
I had Shadoe up to 9u BID Lantus before I finally was able to 'convince' my vet to draw blood to ship for testing. I had to take the info to the vet to show what tests I wanted and to tell where the tests had to be done. For weeks, the vet kept saying she does not look acro- she was a cute little grey kitty, tiny head, fine featured, only 6yrs old, female, tiny paws, no belly, so why would I want to waste my money on the tests?
I replied 'Because she is MY cat, and it is MY money. I can always go to another vet, so make the call and find out what you need to know about the tests getting done.'
They grudgingly had her tested and were shocked when the results came back positive for acromegaly. Seriously, getting to a dose of 8u and higher when being fed low carb wet food and all other tests cannot explain the resistance, it's time to test for a few resistance conditions.
The tests are important because you will want to know if Tigger has a functional pancreas or not. If Tigger goes low, you will need to feed a whole can of high carb, not just a spoonful, because his pancreas works fine and may just go lower with more food.
You won't do much different for Tigger if the tests are positive, but you will want to avoid BG under 100 as it is harder to bring up some acro's BG with high carb when they go low.
Let Tigger eat what he needs as his body may not be at a point where it can utilize the food well. Before they were regulated, my two acros ate huge amounts of food. Oliver was around 30oz a day and Shadoe inhaled close to 24oz. Now, they are much better - Oliver ate maybe 10oz yesterday and Shadoe ate close to 6oz.
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but you should consider picking up some R insulin to add to your tool box. When BG are very high, you can give a small amount of R to pull down the BG to a range where your Lantus can work better.
As well, from Tigger's ss, it looks like you are holding his dose longer than you need to hold it. If a dose is not show any improvement by 6cycles, you may as well increase the dose. By day 3, if you are seeing the same high 300s, it is time to up the dose. You need to find Tigger's good dose that will get him under 250.
One thing I should mention about the 2 tests - if Tigger has any issues with lipemia on his previous bloodwork results, you will need to fast him before the draw for the tests. Shadoe has issues with lipemia on most of her b/w, so she needed to be fasted from the nite before.
Here are the links to the 2 test sheets you can take to your vet; I don't know if the sheets have been revised recently, but should be good
IAA Test
IGF-1 (Acro) Test
Best of luck with your vet and getting the tests done.
ETA:
Oliver tested positive for acromegaly(325) and IAA(60%) - current dose 22.5u BID Levemir
Shadoe tested positive for acromegaly(120) and IAA negative(7%) - current dose 12.5u BID Levemir
To say a cat does not have the signs is not a good enough reason to refuse the tests. Not all acros 'look' acro.
I had Shadoe up to 9u BID Lantus before I finally was able to 'convince' my vet to draw blood to ship for testing. I had to take the info to the vet to show what tests I wanted and to tell where the tests had to be done. For weeks, the vet kept saying she does not look acro- she was a cute little grey kitty, tiny head, fine featured, only 6yrs old, female, tiny paws, no belly, so why would I want to waste my money on the tests?
I replied 'Because she is MY cat, and it is MY money. I can always go to another vet, so make the call and find out what you need to know about the tests getting done.'
They grudgingly had her tested and were shocked when the results came back positive for acromegaly. Seriously, getting to a dose of 8u and higher when being fed low carb wet food and all other tests cannot explain the resistance, it's time to test for a few resistance conditions.
The tests are important because you will want to know if Tigger has a functional pancreas or not. If Tigger goes low, you will need to feed a whole can of high carb, not just a spoonful, because his pancreas works fine and may just go lower with more food.
You won't do much different for Tigger if the tests are positive, but you will want to avoid BG under 100 as it is harder to bring up some acro's BG with high carb when they go low.
Let Tigger eat what he needs as his body may not be at a point where it can utilize the food well. Before they were regulated, my two acros ate huge amounts of food. Oliver was around 30oz a day and Shadoe inhaled close to 24oz. Now, they are much better - Oliver ate maybe 10oz yesterday and Shadoe ate close to 6oz.
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but you should consider picking up some R insulin to add to your tool box. When BG are very high, you can give a small amount of R to pull down the BG to a range where your Lantus can work better.
As well, from Tigger's ss, it looks like you are holding his dose longer than you need to hold it. If a dose is not show any improvement by 6cycles, you may as well increase the dose. By day 3, if you are seeing the same high 300s, it is time to up the dose. You need to find Tigger's good dose that will get him under 250.
One thing I should mention about the 2 tests - if Tigger has any issues with lipemia on his previous bloodwork results, you will need to fast him before the draw for the tests. Shadoe has issues with lipemia on most of her b/w, so she needed to be fasted from the nite before.
Here are the links to the 2 test sheets you can take to your vet; I don't know if the sheets have been revised recently, but should be good
IAA Test
IGF-1 (Acro) Test
Best of luck with your vet and getting the tests done.
ETA:
Oliver tested positive for acromegaly(325) and IAA(60%) - current dose 22.5u BID Levemir
Shadoe tested positive for acromegaly(120) and IAA negative(7%) - current dose 12.5u BID Levemir
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