8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 +2 395 +4 318

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Re: 8/6 Harley's AMPS 339

Harley and Pattie said:
Well, back to the 300's. Just a regular night for Harley. Gave a fur shot this AM - has happened more than once to me, so I gave and extra 0.25 to make up for the rest.

Pattie
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Hi Pattie,

not sure what you mean by gave an extra .25? Did you shoot 6.25u fur-shot and shot again a .25 shot?

If ever you have fur-shots, you don't want to re-shoot as there is no way of knowing how much insulin actually went in.

Hope you can clarify, unless I'm really slow right now.

Let us know ok?
And make a note on SS that you had a fur-shot.
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 -Crying again tonight

Thanks for clearing that up.
What's going on tonight Pattie?

Harley is crying?
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 -Crying again tonight

I don't know why he is crying. Again, Ronni, I am sorry to be so blunt in my post, but I am so worried, frightened, at the end of my rope, whatever.

I think he is hungry (symptoms again of the diabetes), but if I feed him, it will drive him even higher. I don't want to withhold food but...what do I do?

Pattie
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 -Crying again tonight

Everything ok in the litter box?

I'm not sure why he is crying so much, could be hungry.
Did he have plenty of food earlier today?
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 -Crying again tonight

This AM, a little diarrhea mixed with stool but otherwise ok. Just checked for ketones, negative. whew! I was gone for 10 hours due to work but left some food for him. It was gone when I got home. Doubt that the other two kitties would have eaten it.

Pattie
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 -Crying again tonight

Harley sending you Angels and Prayers lots of green healing light ...I hope you soon feel better (((((((((Harley))))))))))))) Kath
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 -Crying again tonight

Please forgive me for what I am writing. I do not wish to offend anyone. I am sitting here crying because Harley is back up to 454 and also crying. I am getting conflicting information from my vet, this board and others and frankly, I do not know what to do. I nearly lost him twice last year and don’t want to screw around so he gets sick again.

I increased the insulin dose to 6.25 as suggested by several here and no one had the courtesy to get back to me today to see how it was going. Someone talked about a “breakthrough” that should occur.

What “breakthrough” – higher numbers, lower numbers, kidney failure – what. I asked that question through a PM with no results.

Am I needy – yes I am right now. I am alone here, my baby is near 500 and crying for who knows what reason. I know I am crying because I am afraid.

So, now what? Just another long night worrying about what he is doing.

Pattie
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 -Crying again tonight

Oh bless your heart! I cried too when my kitty was 600 and I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I don't know if I can answer all your questions, but about the food...

In my opinion Harley needs food at these higher numbers due to his body not being able to utilize food as well as when in lower numbers. I would NOT withhold food, and would give him what he wants right now. The insulin is what is supposed to bring the numbers down, not lack of food at this point.

I understand your reluctance, but he needs more not less right now. Ok?

Hang in there Pattie!
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 -Crying again tonight

The breakthrough is when the right dose is hit and the kitty begins to level off and give some better numbers. It is very hard to say when this might happen because no one wants to go too fast and miss the right dose.... and yet going slowly is also frustrating at times.

I'm so sorry that you are upset, that makes me sad. I need to go look at your SS and read back a little more. I'm sorry if you felt alone. We will try to do better for you. (((Pattie)))
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 -Crying again tonight

It's normal to feel stressed, conflicted and frustrated.... we've all been there.
I'm with Carolyn with respect to the food... at this stage of the game, no need to restrict food. As for you, get a fresh box of kleenex and a big tub of ice cream.

6.25U it is and that's good - stick to the dose for a while. We follow the protocol, we don't make up stuff as we go. You don't need to get approval from us to do stuff, we just try to help guide you follow the protocol (typically).

You will be Ok. :YMHUG:
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 -Crying again tonight

I did feed him another can of FF (0 carbs on Binky's list - although I know a certan % turns into bg). He really gobbled it down and is now looking to go outside. I sit with Harley, along with Laura and Scooter as they play in the fresh catnip.

Pattie
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 -Crying again tonight

Catnip is good. :lol: Hope your crew is enjoying it!

How is Harley now after some more food? Did that help his crying at all?
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 +3 395

Harley is now down to +3 395, back inside and again crying (for food???). Is it the right assumption that while I was gone today he fell too low and rebounded, causing the 454?

Can he have more food now? Seems like 3 cans is a lot if I do.

If that happens tonight, what do I do? Feed him when he gets to 100. I doubt I will sleep much and be testing every 3 hours or so.

Pattie
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 +3 395

I guess that is just a guess about what happened...it's one of the possibilities of course.....
how much food does Harley get each day?
I guess it is difficult when you have multiple kitties at home while you are gone....no one knows who eats what and how much, right? That is tough...food is a good way to stop the drop though. So, if you see him dropping, do feed then for sure. Do you think you will feed him some more right now if he is crying?

Could there be any dental issues going on? Has he had a dental recently? I am just saying cause my Shadow just had a dental. He does get a lot of plaque and needs two each year. Inflammation can raise BGs as well as infections, and of course might be the cause of some crying after eating. Or, he might be just still hungry. Many kitties seem to be ravenously hungry when they have higher numbers.
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 +3 395

It is possible that he dropped low today. It doesn't have to be a super low green number, it just has to be lower than Harley is used to. His body thinks normal for him is probably yellow or pink so when he gets to the 100's or lower, he is flooded with counter measures to bring him back to his 'high normal'. It doesn't seem fair does it?

He may be crying a little because he just doesn't feel well being red or pink. Maybe give him a teaspoon of food and see if that quiets him down. Then you'll know whether it is because he feels hungry. If he's not interested then it may be that he just feels kind of yucky. But his numbers are starting to come down and maybe he will start to feel better... I hope.

I usually feed BigMac small amounts every 4 - 5 hours. When he was on insulin I didn't look for a specific number before feeding - unless it was too low. I fed the fifties. That was my signal. Otherwise he ate his normal small meals. Not sure if that was your question. :smile:

You are a good tester so if you see a steep drop, then give a little bite of food to try and level it out so he drops slower. So yes, if he is 100 at some point soon, then that is probably too fast a decline.. and feeding might help slow it down.
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 +3 395

The vet suggested that Harley should lose a little weight. He is about 12# and she wanted him to be about 10#, so I have slowly put him on a diet. As suggested at FDMB, I went slow. He is not where he should be, which is 2 cans of FF and 1 small treat.

In answer to your question, he is getting:
1 can FF in AM
1/4 can noon (when I can get home)
1 oz cooked chicken before 4pm
1 can FF at PM
1-1 1/2 oz cooked chicken at about 3 AM

I did feed him about 1 tbsp of food and now he is laying down. Thank you so much for the help tonight. I really felt stranded in the deep end of the pool.

Pattie
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 +3 395

my guess about why Harley is high is what we call "New Dose Wonkiness:"

from the Tight Regulation Protocol:

Many cats will occasionally react to an increased dose with increased BGs - within the first 2 to 3 days after an increase, usually lasting for less than 24 hours. Nobody really knows what the reason for this phenomenon is (perhaps a "panicky liver"?) - hold the dose and ignore the fluctuations.

About food, it can be really hard to get a cat to lose weight when their diabetes is unregulated. I remember when Lucy's numbers were high, she was eating up to 6 cans of FF per day! Now it's 2 cans plus treats. Jazzy is still eating at least 3 cans. It's hard because some of our kitties just really love to eat, so it's hard to tell if they are actually hungry or if they're just loving their food. I'm not a good one to talk about this, because my cat gained a lot of weight while on insulin so I didn't do it right. :sad:
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 +3 395

I understand about the weight thing. It is so hard to take when they cry though. I think you can only do what you feel is right... while Harley is struggling with diabetes and trying to get regulated maybe working on the diet is one thing too many for him?

I'm not saying that you should stuff him like a turkey, but do what you did tonight... give him a little bite here and there to help him with his hunger. Maybe when you give him his morning or dinner can of FF you could hold back a teaspoon of food so you can give it to him later? I don't know if that would work for you. I'm just thinking out loud here. :-D
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 +3 395

Oh geez, Libby!! You're bringing back memories. Patti....my Harley did just what Libby is describing. I was for sure in full panic mode and got that very same post from Libby. Thank you, Libby! A day or so later, she leveled out. I'm sorry you and your kitty are feeling so stressed right now. I have an idea...put out another can of food for Harley and then plop down next to him with a bucket of Ben and Jerry's....sometimes we just need a little yummy stuff to make everything ok again... :-D

s
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 +3 395

Thank you. I do feel less stressed and was happy to see his bg go down...even a little bit. As I walked by him (he is on the floor) to get to the computer, he rolled over and a scratched his tummy. Cute little meow came out.

No ice cream but did have a Popsicle.

Pattie
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 +3 395

Harley and Pattie said:
T... As I walked by him (he is on the floor) to get to the computer, he rolled over and a scratched his tummy. Cute little meow came out.

Pattie
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Well, that's what I like to hear!
 
Re: 8/6 Harley's PMPS 454 +3 395

Hi Pattie,
Just to throw another wrench in there...the diarrhea...could be a sign of the ibd flaring. Is this typical of him or is it an isolated incident? Keep an eye on it. If isolated, I would let it go for now. If its typical or becoming more common you might want to talk to the vet about it. Immflamation and/or pain from the IBD could cause bg's to go up. Add the steroid in there, and it can make things much more challenging.

I have not looked at ss's due to extra slow computer after dowloading a zillion more photos, and well...its just hard right now. Last I looked I dont think there were notes about when you gave the budesonide, or comments on diarrhea or other symptoms of the ibd. Forgive me if Im wrong there. Its good to collect this data and see if there is any correlation with his numbers.

I hope you have a quieter night. I hope Harley feels well enough to settle down, and you are able to get a good nights rest.
 
I made a mistake in my subject. The 395 was +2 and he is now 318 at +4. I am not sure if it is the ibd - could be. He does not get diarrhea or not that I have notice. He did have a flare up (I think) in March when I was feeding him hamburger without the fat drained from it. I have not noticed anything since that time and he did not have diarrhea then.

I think tonight I will continue with the testing every 2 hours. Will keep the ss updated.

Every AM he gets 2 tabs RenaPlus tabs (each 468 mg). Every evening he gets 0.8ml budsonide, 1 tab RenaPlus tab.

Thank you, and good night

Pattie
 
Patti 2 months ago my Trey was 468 BG and could not get enough to eat so I just fed little meals every time I tested ,every two hours and of course all other 3 kitties thought they should eat. So it was a feed zone here for the first 2-3 weeks of insulin and nights when he was getting low numbers well they were eating every 15 minutes.. So feed your boy worry about weight when he gets things under control..Trey is 17 lbs and he is so happy now he still eats about 5 times a day but small meals and that makes him happy. I am not giving advice just telling you what works for us...Trey was DX 05/05/10 and on 07/27/10 he is off the insulin OTJ trial Day 11 now Kath

I also always leave a nice dish of food out so if he felt like he needed to eat he did....mc/lc mix
 
I think everyone pretty much covered the food issues. One thing to keep in mind is that feeding an entire can of food, unless Harley is a grazer, is a lot all at one sitting. Not only is it a full plate, it's a lot of food for a pancreas to handle. A rise in BG from a meal triggers the pancreas to release/produce insulin to aid in digestion. For a healing pancreas, this is a huge amount of work. Spreading out the food is easier on a healing pancreas. What it also means is that food doesn't always result in a rise in BG. There may be an immediate rise, but if there are functioning beta cells in the pancreas, they may produce insulin and help to lower BG several hours later.

I hope you enjoyed the popsicle. I hear that you can make "adult" versions.
 
Well, I'm here...might as well say hello. ohmygod_smile I can't tell you how many times I click on yours, or the other Harley's condos thinking it's mine! :lol: I thought..."Why is Sienne talking to me about food? What? Wait a minute...I don't live in this condo!!" :lol: :lol:

Mmmm...adult popsicles...or wine, wine usually does the trick too!


drinking24
Cheers!!

s
 
There is no such thing as "grazing" in Harley's life. It is all of nothing. I have left food out and he gobbles it up so there is none left - even when I am home. If I were to give him only 1/2 can for the AM shot, he would be crying for the next half, and I only have 1/2 hour to get out the door for work. I have tried freezing food but he chews it and it is gone in no time.

I am looking for the auto feeding. Petsmart near me was out. That may do the trick.

Pattie
 
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