8/4/21 New Member, lethargy after first insulin dose normal?

[Judy & Fritz]

Hello all, I am very glad I found you! My 10-year-old baby, Fritz, was diagnosed on 7/23 with a BG lab test number of 377. I immediately took all dry food away and give all five of my cats Fancy Feast pate 3-4 times a day. Treats are Pure Bites freeze-dried chicken, Orijen Six Fish freeze-dried treats, and Dr. Elsey’s kibble (as treats only). My vet of many years went into practice an hour away. Fritz yowls as long as the car is moving, so his wellness check was with a new vet at the same practice. CBC and urinalysis showed BG of 377, glucose of +3 in urine, no ketones, urine not dilute, liver numbers elevated, otherwise very healthy. Vet’s instructions were to give 1 unit ProZinc (with no home testing) every 12 hours “as soon as his head is in the food bowl.” That horrible advice was all I needed to hear. I lost my 12-year-old, Maggie, 9 years ago following that same advice. I was discouraged from home testing and vowed to home test if I ever had another sugar cat. For Fritz, I chose to change diet immediately and give Petwellbeing Blood Sugar Gold and Milk Thistle supplements before beginning the insulin. Yesterday, we went to a new vet for another round of bloodwork. His BG number was the same, but his liver numbers have improved. She diagnosed a ‘slight’ UTI and put him on Orbax antibiotic once a day for 12 days, with instructions to give 1/2 unit of ProZinc for a week, continue the Petwellbeing drops and bring in for a glucose curve on 8/20. She also did a fructosomine test with results due in 2-3 days. I took my ReliOn Prime meter to compare to the clinic’s meter. Theirs read 403, ReliOn read 324. I talked to a different vet at the original clinic who told me NOT to up the insulin dosage until a glucose curve is done, so now he will be on 1/2 unit ProZinc until 8/17 glucose curve. Antibiotics will be finished on 8/15. This vet told me to make sure he ate his meal and wait 20-30 minutes before injecting. This morning, I home tested and got a reading of 224. He ate his entire meal. 30 minutes later he was injected with 1/2 unit insulin. He is more lethargic than he has been. With a 224 reading on a human meter, should I have held off on the shot?

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

With a 224 reading on a human meter, should I have held off on the shot?

No, you did exactly the right thing. At first, we recommend shooting anything over 200 but as you gain more experience and testing data, that number comes down.

Actually, with ProZinc, you don't need to wait to shoot. Most of us take food up 2 hours before shot time, then Test (to make sure they're high enough for insulin), Feed (to make sure they're at least willing to eat) and Shoot (usually with their head in the bowl).

He is more lethargic than he has been.

We hear this a lot from caretakers who just started insulin. The best way I can explain it is to imagine you are used to drinking a whole pot of coffee every day and one day, somebody gives you a medication that blocks the caffeine. You'd feel pretty lethargic too!

It's great that you have your "Signature" done...can we get you to start using our spreadsheet too? It's a very valuable tool and we will want to see it before giving you much in the way of advice on dose. Here are the instructions on getting the spreadsheet but if you have any trouble, just holler. There are a few of us that are happy to set it up for you!

2 weeks is a little longer than we usually recommend staying on the same dose if it's not getting the results we want but let's see how it goes.

 

[Judy & Fritz]

Chris, thank you SO much! I fed Fritz his lunch and he didn’t polish it off like he normally does. He ate about 2/3 of it. I was reading over what I wrote and left out the fact that the vet yesterday told me to go up to 1 unit after a week. The second vet I talked to on the phone told me not to go up until his glucose curve on 8/17, that it was dangerous, but to me, it’s going to depend on his numbers and guidance from all of you. I just got his fructosamine results - 567, which we did to see how much the stress of the car ride and vet visit impacted his BG numbers. So he is definitely diabetic, but he does not have dilute urine, he has now been tested for ketones twice (none), and his pancreatic enzyme numbers are perfect. I do have Keto-Diastix and a urine collecting kit. I will gladly do a spreadsheet. I need to have a little time to figure it out, but I have already bookmarked the page of instructions. I just read your signature. Is beautiful China off insulin? This gives me such hope! I have five precious babies, all rescues and four from very dire situations, including one from an active meth house raid. Fritz is the only one I have had since he was a kitten, and we have an incredible bond. I do have pet insurance, which is coming in handy now. Thank you again for your help, it’s very comforting, I am going to get my boy into remission or die trying.

 

[Judy & Fritz]

Just created my spreadsheet.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Just created my spreadsheet.

Good job!

I just read your signature. Is beautiful China off insulin?

China passed away on Christmas Eve morning 2018. That's what the GA means on some of our screen names. Guardian Angel or Gone Ahead (no, we're not all from Georgia....LOL)

Before she passed, she was the most tightly controlled cat on the board for several years. She did go OTJ once but only for a short time but that was OK....I truly didn't care if she needed insulin the rest of her life and was happy that she was just doing so great.

 

[Judy & Fritz]

Good job!



China passed away on Christmas Eve morning 2018. That's what the GA means on some of our screen names. Guardian Angel or Gone Ahead (no, we're not all from Georgia....LOL)

Before she passed, she was the most tightly controlled cat on the board for several years. She did go OTJ once but only for a short time but that was OK....I truly didn't care if she needed insulin the rest of her life and was happy that she was just doing so great.

Oh Chris, she was gorgeous. How old was she? My little Maggie was 12 when she became a Guardian Angel because of a sudden and severe hypoglycemic event. And yes, I thought there were an awful lot of members from Georgia! Lol! I agree, remission isn’t necessarily the goal, but a happy, healthy and hopefully regulated long life. I will give Fritz insulin forever if it keeps him with me. I’m really sorry for your loss and I understand the absolute heartbreak of losing a fur baby.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

How old was she?

19.....diabetic for 5 1/2 years. The vet that diagnosed her told me "insulin is a hassle...just feed her this W/D kibble and she may live another 4 months but she'll go blind first....are you sure you don't want to just put her down today?"

Thank God I found this board and had already decided what I wanted and how I wanted to treat her so I couldn't get her out of there fast enough. Found another vet willing to write me a script for Lantus and she never went back to a vet again (for diabetes). She went for yearly bloodwork, dentals and a nasty URI but when the vet would come into the room, I'd start the conversation with "She's on X units of Lantus and her blood glucose runs between Y and Z, but today we're here for (fill in the blank)" and that was usually the end of the conversation. If she did feel the need to give me advice I didn't ask for, I'd smile, nod my head and say "I'll think about that"...and come right back here.

The vet that diagnosed her had told me to bring her back in 2 weeks after feeding her the garbage W/D. Of course I didn't and in over 5 years, he never even called me to ask how she was doing.

 

[Judy & Fritz]

19.....diabetic for 5 1/2 years. The vet that diagnosed her told me "insulin is a hassle...just feed her this W/D kibble and she may live another 4 months but she'll go blind first....are you sure you don't want to just put her down today?"

Thank God I found this board and had already decided what I wanted and how I wanted to treat her so I couldn't get her out of there fast enough. Found another vet willing to write me a script for Lantus and she never went back to a vet again (for diabetes). She went for yearly bloodwork, dentals and a nasty URI but when the vet would come into the room, I'd start the conversation with "She's on X units of Lantus and her blood glucose runs between Y and Z, but today we're here for (fill in the blank)" and that was usually the end of the conversation. If she did feel the need to give me advice I didn't ask for, I'd smile, nod my head and say "I'll think about that"...and come right back here.

The vet that diagnosed her had told me to bring her back in 2 weeks after feeding her the garbage W/D. Of course I didn't and in over 5 years, he never even called me to ask how she was doing.

I absolutely love your story! What a warrior - both of you, actually. How amazing that little girl lived to 19! That’s a nice old age even for a non-diabetic cat. You kept her going for 5 1/2 years, way to go. What that vet (what a jerk!) said to you turns my stomach, and I’m not at all surprised that he never called to check on her, sounds like a miserable human being. Vets, unfortunately, don’t seem to do any more to heal animals than doctors do people. Oh sure, the dentals and labs and UTI’s, and maybe surgery of some kind, but other than that, they are hand in glove with Big Pharma and treat symptoms only. And don’t get me started on the pet food they sell, garbage is right. That’s how Fritz became diabetic, and Maggie had prednisone-induced diabetes, so both vet-related. I am on my third vet since July 21. My friend of 25 years sold his clinic and moved to a small practice an hour’s drive away. Of these three vets, only the women vets are encouraging me to home test. Unfortunate to be vet shopping just when Fritz got his diagnosis, but there is a silver lining - they couldn’t really offer me much of anything, certainly not what this board can and somehow, my prayers led me here. Right now the testing/feeding/shooting protocol is like a dog and pony show, but I am growing more confident and my darling Fritzi is being such a good boy. His BG number before his evening meal was 296. Chris, your story, China’s story is so inspiring. I have hope because of this board, because of you. And thank you so much for the tip about putting the food up two hours prior to testing. It gave me peace knowing his number represented glucose rather than a food spike. I hope you know how awesome you are. And I hope to do this very thing someday for a pet parent who’s had a shocking, terrifying diagnosis and has no clue how to best help his or her baby. I promise you that I will fight for Fritz as hard as you did for China, and will acquire the knowledge and experience to help others.