BooBoo Kitty
Member Since 2011
Good Morning...
8/31 BooBoo Kitty PMPS 262, +3 180
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Re: 8/21 BooBoo Kitty AMPS 229
I think this may point to the issue. If you have been skipping shots on a regular basis, your cat's shed has been effected. Whenever you are inconsistent with dosing, there's a higher likelihood of getting wonky numbers. Do you recall how often you were skipping shots or shooting reduced doses? At the most basic level, Lantus likes consistency. The more consistent you are with shooting both dose and at 12 hour intervals, the more consistent your cat's numbers will be. (Ruling out anything medical, as well.)
Stephanie/Boo/Boo said:
I think this may point to the issue. If you have been skipping shots on a regular basis, your cat's shed has been effected. Whenever you are inconsistent with dosing, there's a higher likelihood of getting wonky numbers. Do you recall how often you were skipping shots or shooting reduced doses? At the most basic level, Lantus likes consistency. The more consistent you are with shooting both dose and at 12 hour intervals, the more consistent your cat's numbers will be. (Ruling out anything medical, as well.)
BooBoo Kitty
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/21 BooBoo Kitty AMPS 229
Well I wasn't gonna shoot when she was under 100. Sorry but not gonna give my cat a hypo. That's the ONLY time I did not shoot, when she was under 150 as per your guidlelines on here. I have been working with BooBoo very close and she was almost headed toward remission...
Well I wasn't gonna shoot when she was under 100. Sorry but not gonna give my cat a hypo. That's the ONLY time I did not shoot, when she was under 150 as per your guidlelines on here. I have been working with BooBoo very close and she was almost headed toward remission...
BooBoo Kitty
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/21 BooBoo Kitty AMPS 229
I always kept to her dose that was working for her which was .6. started with 1.0 but that was too high back then... Trust me I have followed ALL the rules on this board.
I always kept to her dose that was working for her which was .6. started with 1.0 but that was too high back then... Trust me I have followed ALL the rules on this board.
BooBoo Kitty
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/21 BooBoo Kitty AMPS 229
At first she needed 2 shots a day, then would stay down on her own, i know because i checked her, and would not require the second shot, then she would stay low by the 100's or less for a few days at a time without a shot! I DO NOT want to give my cat insulin if she was able to stay down on her own. This started in March. Plus I switched her to 0% carbs as per the Janet and Binky list and that was helping too.
At first she needed 2 shots a day, then would stay down on her own, i know because i checked her, and would not require the second shot, then she would stay low by the 100's or less for a few days at a time without a shot! I DO NOT want to give my cat insulin if she was able to stay down on her own. This started in March. Plus I switched her to 0% carbs as per the Janet and Binky list and that was helping too.
BooBoo Kitty
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/21 BooBoo Kitty AMPS 229
maybe if I would have stayed on this board during the time she was doing good you would be able to see what I am talking about, but i didn't so trying to explain it seems like it is awfully hard and maybe no one is understanding why i did what i did as far as not giving a shot every 12 hours after about 3 months of shooting every 12 hours because her #'s called for it. i mean would you shoot ur cat when he/she was only at 100 and it was time for a shot? I just don't feel comfy with that and if i wasn't here and she had a hypo because I did shoot and I wasn't able to catch it I would have felt horrible!!!
maybe if I would have stayed on this board during the time she was doing good you would be able to see what I am talking about, but i didn't so trying to explain it seems like it is awfully hard and maybe no one is understanding why i did what i did as far as not giving a shot every 12 hours after about 3 months of shooting every 12 hours because her #'s called for it. i mean would you shoot ur cat when he/she was only at 100 and it was time for a shot? I just don't feel comfy with that and if i wasn't here and she had a hypo because I did shoot and I wasn't able to catch it I would have felt horrible!!!
BooBoo Kitty
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/21 BooBoo Kitty AMPS 229
A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines. Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin. Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options: a.) give nothing; b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose); c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value. Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise. In all cases, if you are reducing or eliminating insulin, it's wise to check for ketones in the urine. Above the normal pre-shot value, give the usual dose, but if the pre-shot value is consistently elevated, it's a good idea to schedule a full glucose curve to see whether a change in dose or insulin is appropriate. In most cases, the target "peak" value should not be below 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L), and for some cats it might be higher.
These are the guidelines I was/have been following...
A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines. Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin. Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options: a.) give nothing; b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose); c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value. Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise. In all cases, if you are reducing or eliminating insulin, it's wise to check for ketones in the urine. Above the normal pre-shot value, give the usual dose, but if the pre-shot value is consistently elevated, it's a good idea to schedule a full glucose curve to see whether a change in dose or insulin is appropriate. In most cases, the target "peak" value should not be below 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L), and for some cats it might be higher.
These are the guidelines I was/have been following...
tuckers mom
Member Since 2009
Re: 8/21 BooBoo Kitty AMPS 229
Stephanie, relax, it's going to be okay. No one is judging you, they are just trying to help. Please take some time to read what they have to say, this is the best place to learn about Lantus and how to use it, you're going to do great and so is your kitty.
Stephanie, relax, it's going to be okay. No one is judging you, they are just trying to help. Please take some time to read what they have to say, this is the best place to learn about Lantus and how to use it, you're going to do great and so is your kitty.
BooBoo Kitty
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/21 BooBoo Kitty AMPS 229
I know. This board helped me immensly by telling me what meter to use and coaching me through the process back in January thru March. I have faith in this board just get upset when it seems people assume that I do not test my cat on a regular basis or am not following directions when I am. I have BooBoo's health as one of my main concerns in life and honestly it is a bit much right now. I am still keeping on with it but it is VERY stressful!
I know. This board helped me immensly by telling me what meter to use and coaching me through the process back in January thru March. I have faith in this board just get upset when it seems people assume that I do not test my cat on a regular basis or am not following directions when I am. I have BooBoo's health as one of my main concerns in life and honestly it is a bit much right now. I am still keeping on with it but it is VERY stressful!
Re: 8/21 BooBoo Kitty AMPS 229
Stephanie --
I think you're reading from the General Guidelines vs. the tight regulation approach and/or the sticky on being "data ready" at the top of this board. The info in the general guidelines is not entirely applicable to Lantus. The types of insulin that those guidelines were developed for are shorter acting than either Lantus or Levemir. The shorter acting insulin tends to yank numbers down very quickly and as a result, there is a definite "no shoot" number. With Lantus or Lev, the only "rule" is that it's ill advised to shoot the 40s or below (and some people, who have late nadir cats can shoot that low).
Take a minute and scan the subject lines on the Lantus board. You'll see that we shoot low numbers all the time. When someone is new, it's not prudent to shoot below 150. Rather, we encourage people to become data ready. In other words, know how your cat responds to Lantus and know when onset and nadir are as well as what kind of duration you're getting. Once you have enough information to assess those points, you're data ready.
With Lantus and Lev, the general rule is "shoot low to stay low." We do use food to steer the numbers. Of course, there are times when skipping a shot is necessary or when you need to shoot a reduced dose. But, because of how the shed acts, this can result in wonky numbers if you do this repeatedly. If you find that you can't regularly shoot BID, then you do need to reduce the dose to a point where you can shoot BID. Otherwise, you're going to see numbers swinging around wildly.
I can appreciate why you were confused if you were using information from the general guidelines. Let's hope that by sticking more closely to the Tight Regulation Protocol we can help you get BooBoo better regulated again or to the Falls.
Stephanie --
I think you're reading from the General Guidelines vs. the tight regulation approach and/or the sticky on being "data ready" at the top of this board. The info in the general guidelines is not entirely applicable to Lantus. The types of insulin that those guidelines were developed for are shorter acting than either Lantus or Levemir. The shorter acting insulin tends to yank numbers down very quickly and as a result, there is a definite "no shoot" number. With Lantus or Lev, the only "rule" is that it's ill advised to shoot the 40s or below (and some people, who have late nadir cats can shoot that low).
Take a minute and scan the subject lines on the Lantus board. You'll see that we shoot low numbers all the time. When someone is new, it's not prudent to shoot below 150. Rather, we encourage people to become data ready. In other words, know how your cat responds to Lantus and know when onset and nadir are as well as what kind of duration you're getting. Once you have enough information to assess those points, you're data ready.
With Lantus and Lev, the general rule is "shoot low to stay low." We do use food to steer the numbers. Of course, there are times when skipping a shot is necessary or when you need to shoot a reduced dose. But, because of how the shed acts, this can result in wonky numbers if you do this repeatedly. If you find that you can't regularly shoot BID, then you do need to reduce the dose to a point where you can shoot BID. Otherwise, you're going to see numbers swinging around wildly.
I can appreciate why you were confused if you were using information from the general guidelines. Let's hope that by sticking more closely to the Tight Regulation Protocol we can help you get BooBoo better regulated again or to the Falls.
BooBoo Kitty
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/21 BooBoo Kitty AMPS 229
Report this postReply with quote STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - SHOOTING & HANDLING LOW NUMBERS
by Jill & Alex » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:43 pm
We've all seen many posts like, "Help! Lowest preshot number I've ever seen! What should I do?"
IF YOU'RE A NEWBIE (without much data) the FDMB FAQ section 4.4 applies:
Q4.4. My cat's pre-shot level was way below the usual value. Should I give the injection?
A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines. Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin. Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options: a.) give nothing; b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose); c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value. Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise. In all cases, if you are reducing or eliminating insulin, it's wise to check for ketones in the urine. Above the normal pre-shot value, give the usual dose, but if the pre-shot value is consistently elevated, it's a good idea to schedule a full glucose curve to see whether a change in dose or insulin is appropriate. In most cases, the target "peak" value should not be below 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L), and for some cats it might be higher.
This is where I got the info. Well since her #'s are high, I guess I don't need to worry about any of this right now anyway. I will be taking her to the vet tomorrow to rule out an infection, with some help from some friends. I have to get ready for school now, so i will have to deal with this when I get home about 7...
Report this postReply with quote STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - SHOOTING & HANDLING LOW NUMBERS
by Jill & Alex » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:43 pm
We've all seen many posts like, "Help! Lowest preshot number I've ever seen! What should I do?"
IF YOU'RE A NEWBIE (without much data) the FDMB FAQ section 4.4 applies:
Q4.4. My cat's pre-shot level was way below the usual value. Should I give the injection?
A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines. Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin. Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options: a.) give nothing; b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose); c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value. Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise. In all cases, if you are reducing or eliminating insulin, it's wise to check for ketones in the urine. Above the normal pre-shot value, give the usual dose, but if the pre-shot value is consistently elevated, it's a good idea to schedule a full glucose curve to see whether a change in dose or insulin is appropriate. In most cases, the target "peak" value should not be below 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L), and for some cats it might be higher.
This is where I got the info. Well since her #'s are high, I guess I don't need to worry about any of this right now anyway. I will be taking her to the vet tomorrow to rule out an infection, with some help from some friends. I have to get ready for school now, so i will have to deal with this when I get home about 7...
BooBoo Kitty
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/21 BooBoo Kitty AMPS 229 +4 156!!!
Looks like we are having a bit of a break through!!! Oh so happy! Now i can go and focus on school and not have BooBoo on the brain (well at least not as much, lol)...
Looks like we are having a bit of a break through!!! Oh so happy! Now i can go and focus on school and not have BooBoo on the brain (well at least not as much, lol)...
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 8/21 BooBoo Kitty AMPS 229
hi stephanie. how about if we move forward from here? notice what you've quoted above starts out with "IF YOU'RE A NEWBIE (without much data) the FDMB FAQ section 4.4 applies:". this is the 8th month you've been at this. it's time to scroll down to read the rest of the STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - SHOOTING & HANDLING LOW NUMBERS.
from that sticky:
LANTUS AND LEVEMIR USERS: Our motto is, "Shoot Low to Stay Low", but you must become "data ready" to do so safely.
Scroll down for more information on becoming "DATA READY", "DEALING WITH LOW PRESHOT NUMBERS", and "HOW TO HANDLE LOW NUMBERS" during the cycle.
those 3 articles will give you a good idea of where to start when thinking about shooting full doses on low preshot numbers. you see, we do shoot preshot numbers less than 150 once we've become data ready. alex's preshot number was 55 tonight. i shot her regular 2u dose without batting an eye because i became data ready a long time ago. you can, too!
once you're done reading, please take at alex's 2009 spreadsheet. the link is in my signature. after you click on the spreadsheet link below, click on the 2009 tab at the top of the page. alex went back on insulin after being in remission for almost 3 years. when she started on insulin in 2009 i decided to test her more than necessary in order to illustrate what happens for people like yourself when shooting full doses on low preshot numbers. please take the time to study her spreadsheet.
generally speaking, we shoot full doses on preshot numbers over 50 after becoming data ready. if you post often, we can help you.
after reading through the materials available, do you have any questions?
i'll check back later tonight...
edited to add: you might also want to take another look at the Tight Regulation Protocol.
BooBoo Kitty said:
hi stephanie. how about if we move forward from here? notice what you've quoted above starts out with "IF YOU'RE A NEWBIE (without much data) the FDMB FAQ section 4.4 applies:". this is the 8th month you've been at this. it's time to scroll down to read the rest of the STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - SHOOTING & HANDLING LOW NUMBERS.
from that sticky:
LANTUS AND LEVEMIR USERS: Our motto is, "Shoot Low to Stay Low", but you must become "data ready" to do so safely.
Scroll down for more information on becoming "DATA READY", "DEALING WITH LOW PRESHOT NUMBERS", and "HOW TO HANDLE LOW NUMBERS" during the cycle.
those 3 articles will give you a good idea of where to start when thinking about shooting full doses on low preshot numbers. you see, we do shoot preshot numbers less than 150 once we've become data ready. alex's preshot number was 55 tonight. i shot her regular 2u dose without batting an eye because i became data ready a long time ago. you can, too!
once you're done reading, please take at alex's 2009 spreadsheet. the link is in my signature. after you click on the spreadsheet link below, click on the 2009 tab at the top of the page. alex went back on insulin after being in remission for almost 3 years. when she started on insulin in 2009 i decided to test her more than necessary in order to illustrate what happens for people like yourself when shooting full doses on low preshot numbers. please take the time to study her spreadsheet.
generally speaking, we shoot full doses on preshot numbers over 50 after becoming data ready. if you post often, we can help you.
after reading through the materials available, do you have any questions?
i'll check back later tonight...
edited to add: you might also want to take another look at the Tight Regulation Protocol.
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