8/3 Callie AMPS 380, +2 341, +3 331, +5 325, +5.5 306

Jessica A

Jessica A

Member Since 2021
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...1-2-203-4-130-6-104-8-94-9-129-11-149.250778/

Frustrated/ sad/ confused today. We had some really good numbers at 1.75 yesterday and then less good numbers last night and today...

We think that the high night numbers are likely at least somewhat related to the little bit of HC dry food Callie still gets in a food puzzle at night and we are in the midst of weaning her off it. Once we do wean her, we'll test and monitor for six cycles. If at that point we still see the same kinds of high numbers at night, our vet suggested increasing Callie's night dose to 2, leaving the day dose at 1.75.

That plan seemed reasonable to us, especially since Callie appeared to be doing well on that dose during the day. And then... today's numbers. Just checked at +5.5 and it was 306, headed down but still in the 300s.

Looking at our SS, do you think today is (another) bounce? Or did I somehow manage to give Callie a fur shot? We didn't smell anything unusual on Callie and I've read that Lantus has an antiseptic type odor ... but the needle is so small and this all still feels so new, it is hard for me to be confident that I'm doing it right when I see numbers like these. (My partner is a doctor and he watches me give the shots because I want to get the practice and he is certain they are going in fine.)

I know that there can be a lot of variability in BGs especially as the cat is getting used to the insulin and having lower BG numbers but it is so hard to have "faith" and patience when I know Callie isn't feeling great and also how dangerous high BGs can be. Any thoughts/ guidance welcome. Thanks!
 
Yes, today is definitely a bounce. So good, you are learning to spot them. It can take a while for them to get used to lower numbers, mine took what seemed forever! And ECID or each cat is different, so you'll find they all go at their own pace in that.

You mentioned HC in the food puzzle, have you ever tried all meat treats in there instead? Since she has IBD and you already feed the Vital Essentials treats, they might work in the puzzle. I too have a kitty with food allergies. One of the treats I use is Hare Kitty Kitty, and it's a regular size that should fit in the treat puzzle if the Vital Essentials does not. Not sure the Young Again would agree with her IBD.

Jessica A said:
If at that point we still see the same kinds of high numbers at night, our vet suggested increasing Callie's night dose to 2, leaving the day dose at 1.75.
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Due to the nature of the Lantus depot, and with the dosing methods we use here, we find it much easier to give the same dose AM and PM. Often what you shoot one cycle impacts more the following cycle. And at some point, Callie may decides she likes to go lower at night, which is very common for cats. And it that case, you definitely wouldn't want to be shooting more at night than during the day. We like our sleep here! It's way too early in Callie's Lantus journey to say she likes to go lower in the day as a general rule. Take a look around at some other members spreadsheets, especially those for recently diagnosed cats. You'll see similarities, but also lots of differences. Insulin is a hormone, and it takes a bit of time for their bodies to learn to work with it.
 
Thanks for your response confirming what I suspected about the bounce -- I am going to have to try harder to be patient!

We haven't tried Vital Essentials in the puzzle yet so thanks for that idea and also for the Hare Kitty Kitty treat info. Callie is very food motivated generally but also loves variety and quickly gets sick of wet food ... so we sprinkle small bits of the all meat treats over the wet food when we really need her to eat it (shot times esp) and she's not particularly eager to dig in. We will try the Hare Kitty Kitty treats as well. The more we have in our arsenal for that and for her nightly food puzzle, the better.

So far so good with the Youg Again dry food. We are only giving Callie a tiny amount of the Limited Ingredient one with hydrolyzed pork. Have you experienced or heard of probs with it for cats with IBD (we really don't need a flare-up of that on top of everything else!)

We'll definitely keep what you say about giving the same dose in AM and PM in mind. We aren't eager for the doses to be different and for sure want to wait a bit and see what happens as Callie's body works through these bounces :( and we are able to get her on an entirely LC diet.
 
I haven't heard of YA being used with IBD kitties. I didn't know you were using a LID version. Maybe she's fine with pork too. If so, Orijen makes a Wild Boar treat. They also do an all lamb treat if that protein works.
 
Jessica, just wanted to pass by and tell you i think Callie is actually doing great, what you saw on the 2nd of August AM is a very nice cycle and a sign she might get more of those after the bounce is cleared. Wendy explained very well the reason why you don’t want to change doses of insulin night/day, Lantus loves consistency and perseverance, you are still very early in the path, so it might take some more time to get used to all of this :)

I see that your dosing method is custom per veterinary, can you please tell me why did you decide to decrease insulin dose from 2 units? It looked like she started doing well on it and then you went to 1.75, i am just curious.

I would say it was our luck that our veterinary had no clue about diabetes management and we were forced to search other resources and we were blessed to find this forum. Due to the amazing people here we are trying our 1st day without insulin and as you can see Chico’s SS we had a very rocky start :)

good luck with your journey, so far you are doing an amazing job at testing and analyzing Callies values :bighug::bighug:
 
Hi Marina,

Thanks so much for your message and encouragement. It is definitely going to take me a little more time to get used to all this...

Callie WAS doing very well on the skinny 2 -- being so new to this, I think we just got scared because we hadn't seen numbers like that before and they weren't going up as we thought they would as we approached her PM shot (her PMPS ended up being 211 but she was still in the 100s when I started getting worried.) We reached out to our vet but it was Saturday evening at that point so we weren't sure whether we would hear back before the night shot. I also posted here: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/newbie-lantus-dose-question-jessica-and-callie.250676/ When we did hear back from the vet shortly before our 8pm shot time, she said we could bump back to 1.75 and leave there for a bit, monitor closely and give Callie's body some time to adjust/ respond. So that's what we did. I realized from Chris's message -- which I saw right after speaking to the vet and giving Callie 1.75 -- that we had probably jumped the gun to 2 based on both the TR and SLGS protocols so I felt comfortable with the move back to 1.75. I am very grateful to have found this site and all of the amazing people here.

A huge CONGRATS to you and Chico on Chico's progress! You've done an incredible job. Best of luck with the start of the OTJ trial today!
 
Jessica A said:
Hi Marina,

Thanks so much for your message and encouragement. It is definitely going to take me a little more time to get used to all this...

Callie WAS doing very well on the skinny 2 -- being so new to this, I think we just got scared because we hadn't seen numbers like that before and they weren't going up as we thought they would as we approached her PM shot (her PMPS ended up being 211 but she was still in the 100s when I started getting worried.) We reached out to our vet but it was Saturday evening at that point so we weren't sure whether we would hear back before the night shot. I also posted here: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/newbie-lantus-dose-question-jessica-and-callie.250676/ When we did hear back from the vet shortly before our 8pm shot time, she said we could bump back to 1.75 and leave there for a bit, monitor closely and give Callie's body some time to adjust/ respond. So that's what we did. I realized from Chris's message -- which I saw right after speaking to the vet and giving Callie 1.75 -- that we had probably jumped the gun to 2 based on both the TR and SLGS protocols so I felt comfortable with the move back to 1.75. I am very grateful to have found this site and all of the amazing people here.
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That is actually a very good reason, it does look like you got to that 2U very quickly. I am interested what dosing method will you go on using, hope any decision you would take would work for oyu and Callie :)

Jessica A said:
A huge CONGRATS to you and Chico on Chico's progress! You've done an incredible job. Best of luck with the start of the OTJ trial today!
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Thank you :) we are excited and nervous in the same time, it feels like taking your child for the first time to school and being worried about how will they manage it :)
 
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