8/26 Lion - new to the message board

[Lion]

Hello!

I am new to the message board. And I think I am losing my mind

I have 2 kitties that are brothers. A few years ago one was diagnosed with diabetes and through reading this board I was able to get him into remission. Now his brother was diagnosed with diabetes (7/8/21) and its not going so smoothly. Lion is 15 years old. I have slowly increased the dose from 1 unit to 2.25 units but his number are all over the place!

On a pet monitor he has tested as high as 480 and as low as 70. Last time around I used Relion Micro but that no longer seems to be made. The new Prime requires a lot more blood. For the moment I've been using Pet Buddy which requires less blood.

Tomorrow we go to the vet for a check up on his mouth biopsy (diagnoses was ulcerative gingivitis) and we are having a FreeStyle Libre placed on him.

I'll start the spreadsheet with FreeStyle Libre numbers.

This is all out of the blue after dental surgery to remove some teeth: diabetes, ulcerative gingivitis, now his ear looks flaky.

Has anyone experienced this extreme inconsistency in the numbers? Wild swings with no pattern at all?

Thank you everyone for listening. Any and all comments and advice are welcome!

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Hello and welcome. The wild swings probably do have a pattern, once you know how to read the data. And are not unusual at all for a newly diagnosed kitty. And also common for a cat that has fallen out of remission. We call what is happening a "bounce". Here is the definition:

Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

Good for you on home testing. What food is he eating now?

In order to help us help you better, there are a few things we'd like you to do, described in this note:
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

 

[Lion]

Hi,

He is on Friskies Pate that is sometimes sprinkled with Young Again Zero for mature cats.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi Susan and welcome to you and Lion.
If you can get the spreadsheet up so we can see the data, that would be very helpful. Please include the data you have already collected.
The food you are feeding is Ok for diabetic cats.
Are you giving a meal before the dose and then some snacks during the first half of all the cycles?
Also if you don’t have a hypo kit set up, I would urge you to do so as soon as possible. You will find details for a hypo kit in the link Wendy sent you.
As you are doing SLGS method, if the BG drops under 90 on either meter, please reduce the dose by 0.25 units immediately.

 

[Lion]

Hi Bron,

I feed him right after the test. He will only eat 1 or 2 ounces at feeding time and then 2 ounces throughout the day up until his next test. There have been days I’ve had to use 2 oz of Urgent Care food (I think that’s due to possible sores in his mouth, I’m not sure).

After reading Wendy’s post I went back and found he was not having that dramatic a variation at 1.75 or 2 units. I’m going to drop him back a bit.

My record keeping has been very messy as I started with my old Relion Micro and did not feel confident it was giving good readings. I had trouble with Relion Prime as it required a lot of blood and then moved to a Pet Buddy that required smaller doses. He is having a FreeStyle Libre put on today.

I think my #1 question is: are there any human monitors that require only 0.3 µL (microliter) of blood?

 

[Lion]

Another important question: my vet said if he has eaten 3 or 4 oz throughout the previous 12 hours its okay to give him a shot even if he won't eat right before the shot. Is this correct?

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

After reading Wendy’s post I went back and found he was not having that dramatic a variation at 1.75 or 2 units. I’m going to drop him back a bit.

It is not always a good idea to drop the dose back to try and stop the bouncing, unless he is dropping too low and has earned a reduction. All that will do is cause glucose toxicity and you will need more insulin to bring the numbers down.
Bouncing is a normal thing cats do especially when they are new to diabetes. Many new diabetic cats have been in higher numbers for a while and they then think that the higher numbers are normal. That is when the body panics and dumps the glucose etc into the system and the cat bounces. The way to solve that problem is to get them used to the normal lower numbers again……and until they do, they will keep bouncing. If you reduce the dose, without earning the reduction, you are prolonging it.
If the dose is dropping too fast, we can show you how to feed him so that the drop is slowed and the bouncing will lessen. But to do any of this, we need to see the SS data.
If you could set up a spreadsheet we could have a look at the data and see how we can help you.

I think that’s due to possible sores in his mouth, I’m not sure).

I am sure his mouth is sore, poor love.

I don’t live in the US so I’ll tag @Chris & China (GA) and she will be able to tell you about the best meter.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Another important question: my vet said if he has eaten 3 or 4 oz throughout the previous 12 hours its okay to give him a shot even if he won't eat right before the shot. Is this correct?

If you know Lion will eat for you within the next 2 hours, you could give the dose as the onset of Lantus is around +2
If he will only eat a small amount and you think he will eat more a bit later, that is ok. I would offer snacks through out the cycle.
But I wouldn’t use the food intake of the last 12 hours to base giving the current dose.
If in doubt, post and ask but change the subject line to reflect the question you want answered.

 

[Lion]

Hi,

Can everyone see my spreadsheet?

There is really no knowing when Lion will eat. He seems to eat 2 oz (sometimes) at feeding time, 1 oz over the next 3 hours, and the last oz over the next few hours. But there have been days when he just didn’t want food at feeding time. As a last resort I then give him 2 oz of Urgent Care food, but I'm sure that is very high carbs.

The FreeStyle Libre application went great and he seems fine with it. He was also fine with the T shirt I put on him, but when I ran out to the store to buy a different T shirt I returned home to find the original shirt laying on the floor : )