8/25 Ahmin. Need advice for recent cycles

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christine&ahmin

Member Since 2011
Today AM condo:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=50775&p=546727#p546727

Need advice :
I thought I shouldn't let him go below 50, therefore, in the recent cycles whenever i got the result of 60's i'll give him HC gravy. should i keep doing like this? :roll:
[quote="christine&ahmin"]the stix i'm using is for test urine glucose. when Ahmin DX, my vet told me to test urine glucose everyday & test bg once or twice a week. since I found this fabulous forum, I change to test Ahmin's bg few times everyday. And to test urine glucose becomes a routine work for me even though I've consulted u guys this is duplicate with bg test, but it can make me feel more comfortable to test urine glucose.

julie1220 said:
you're doing great - he is really responding very well to the insulin. don't go off it yet, though. there is a process of reducing his dose every time he goes below 50, and eventually that leads some cats to go off of insulin.

if he's one that will go into remission it will show up. he'll keep going below 50, you'll keep reducing by .25 til you get to .25, then you'll reduce by even smaller amounts until he doesn't need it any more. following that process gives him the greatest chance of staying off of insulin.
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I thought I shouldn't let him go below 50, therefore, in the recent cycles whenever i got the result of 60's i'll give him HC gravy. should i keep doing like this? :?[/quote]
 
Re: 8/25 Ahmin PMPS 94. Need advice for recent cycles

it's ok to give him food at 60, especially if he's dropping fast at +2 or something, but you don't need to do anything til they get below 50.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=147
If your cat is testing in low numbers and you are not getting a quick response to your post, there are several things you need to do. (Low numbers are under 50mg/dL or 2.8 mmol/L.)

Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of food with high carb (HC) gravy or HC food only. (If you have a cat with GI issues, using syrup plus LC food is an alternative.)
Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
Test in an hour and follow the same steps.
DO NOT become complacent. If number have risen after one or two tests, it’s important to continue testing. Numbers may bobble up and down as the HC food and/or Karo wear off. DO NOT get one test where your cat has risen from low numbers into the 50s and go to sleep or leave the house. You are putting your cat in a risky situation. When in doubt, leave HC food out.

In the case of an accidental overdose or should there be symptoms of hypoglycemia, even if you have caught this in the early stages, you may need to monitor for literally 16 or more hours. Lantus and Levemir are long acting types of insulin. This means if your cat is over dose, you will need to stay alert for hours in order to closely monitor and to keep your cat safe.
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i don't know about you, but i found that i didn't absorb information here (there's so much!) until it applied to my cat. so just keep re-reading and asking questions!
 
Re: 8/25 Ahmin PMPS 94. Need advice for recent cycles

Hello Christine,

christine&ahmin said:
I thought I shouldn't let him go below 50, therefore, in the recent cycles whenever i got the result of 60's i'll give him HC gravy. should i keep doing like this?
Click to expand...

Here is an example of a Lantus curve:
Example of a typical curve:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.

If you have a +2 or +3 much lower than the PS, you may have a very exciting cycle. If the BGs drop too far too fast, then there may be a bounce to very high BGs later and you may have to wait from 24-72 hours for the bounce to clear. :sad:
You want to try and keep the cycle as even as possible.
If you have a 60 at +5 or +6, and you are able to be there to monitor, don't feed and see where the BGs go (but don't allow to go below 40 if possible). General rule is, if you need to feed a low number after +6, use LC food, before +6 use HC.
If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit.
 
Re: 8/25 Ahmin PMPS 94. Need advice for recent cycles

I agree with everything that's been said. However, sometimes you need to consider how hard you're working to keep numbers up. For example, on Aug. 23rd, you were having to work to keep Ahmin's numbers up. There was a drop early in the cycle and you were working hard to keep numbers up and then took a reduction. If you were feeding higher carb food today, it's likely that if you hadn't, Ahmin's BG would have dropped below 50. I think it's up to you if you want to reduce the dose. If you want to reduce, I'd suggest shaving a drop off the dose rather than taking a full 0.25u reduction.
 
Re: 8/25 Ahmin PMPS 94. Need advice for recent cycles

Thx for the explanation & advice from all of u guys!
But i'm sorry that I still very confuse about whether I should let him go below 50 & what i've done in the past cycles is correct or not :roll: I'm so stupid......
Sienne and Gabby said:
I agree with everything that's been said. However, sometimes you need to consider how hard you're working to keep numbers up. For example, on Aug. 23rd, you were having to work to keep Ahmin's numbers up. There was a drop early in the cycle and you were working hard to keep numbers up and then took a reduction. If you were feeding higher carb food today, it's likely that if you hadn't, Ahmin's BG would have dropped below 50. I think it's up to you if you want to reduce the dose. If you want to reduce, I'd suggest shaving a drop off the dose rather than taking a full 0.25u reduction.
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Is it better if I dont feed hc food at +2.5 of today's AM cycle ? & just let him go below 50 then start to feed hc food ?
And if I really want to reduce the dose, what's the meaning by "shaving a drop off the dose"? How to do that?
 
hi christine - i think there's no hard and fast guidance about feeding earlier in the cycle or letting your cat go "naturally" and dropping to his lowest point at the nadir, possibly going below 50. i just feed punkin at preshot and +3 and let it go where it goes - if he drops to 50 then i do something. I know how his typical curve is, and it's pretty flat. Others have cats that move faster and more dramatically and they feed their cat at preshot, +1, +2, +3 and sometimes +4 to flatten out a quick drop. Doing that would raise the nadir - so perhaps the lowest point might be 60 instead of being 50, where it would've gone if the cat hadn't gotten a lot of food in the prior couple of hours.

i don't think there's just one way to do it. what sienne is saying is that if you're having to tend/feed to your kitty at +2, +3, etc. by giving high or medium carb food because you think the cat's very likely to go below 50 - which ahmin probably would've done today after being 60 at +2 - then maybe ahmin really needs a little bit less insulin.

following the protocol we would drop it by .25 units. if you want to reduce the dose by less than that, again, this would just be your preference, you could draw up the .75 dose that you've been giving and squeeze one or two drops out before you give it to ahmin. that's what sienne is calling "shave the dose." it's just giving a tiny bit less.

so you're really being given a choice. you can either

1. hold the dose at .75 because ahmin didn't go below 50.
2. assume ahmin would've gone below 50 if you hadn't given him high carbs at +2 and give him a reduction.

if you're going to reduce him, then you have another choice:

1. reduce by .25 following the protocol recommendations so his new dose would be .5 or
2. reduce by 1-2 drops. draw up .75u and then squeeze out 1-2 drops before injecting ahmin.

does that help?
 
Thanks Julie, i think i got it now :-D
I think I'll hold the dose for 1-2 cycles, and feed him regular LC canned food at +1.5 to +2, then see if he'll go below 50.
If he'll go below 50 or lower 60's, then I'll "shave the dose"
Really appreciated you guys for teaching me :-D

btw, Ahmin has a nice start today, AMPS 99 :mrgreen:
 
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