8/25 Achilles AM240~169+5~80+11~PM147~229+1~156+2~80+3~59+4

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Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS 240

Thanks Ronnie,

It's such a challenge monitoring him during the week because both DH and I work long hours. We make sure to leave out some wet food for him and his civ housmate when we leave in the morning. Fortunately, DH has been going home at lunch time to check in on him and give us at least one reading during the day. But, boy is it hard knowing that he is home unmonitored for 10 hours a day. I was actually considering getting a few nanny-cams to watch him during the day from my computer at work. Can you imagine!! I wouldn't get any work done!
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS 240, 169 (+5)

Hi Eva...Nice numbers for Achilles today....
Here is your question from another condo...can you kindly go back and delete that other post?
We can only have one condo per kitty each day due to our numbers, so please delete the other post and continue in this condo for the day, k?

Eva and Achilles said:
Hi all. Achilles and I are relatively new to LL. I've been diligently reading the stickies at every free moment I can spare and I came across the following:

--- Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 cycles).​

My question is: what is a "high flat curve"? I'm planning on doing a curve this weekend, so we will still be in the 5-7 day range since Achilles started Lantus on 8/23. Should I do a mini-curve before Saturday to figure out if we need to reduce or up the initial dose?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS 240, 169 (+5)

Hi Eva


check this link out:

Chigga's Condo

from a few days ago, another member, Erica & Chigga had asked the same thing - scroll down to Jill's last reply in this link

see what others can add, but in the meantime, have a read thru Erica's thread that I posted above.

any opportunity for a curve is good information to get, so whenever you can!


(I've asked Jill to merge your extra thread, so no worries ok?)
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS 240, 169 (+5)

Thanks for the link to Chigga's Condo. I've deleted the other post so no need to do anything else.

What I took away from that dialog is that a high flat curve can occur if there is too little insulin (I understand that logic) or if there is too much insulin (I don't understand that). So, if it can be caused from over- or under-dosing, what data am I to look for to help me figure out if I should reduce or increase the dose. Or, is it simply a matter of trial and error?

So much to learn... :?
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS 240, 169 (+5)

Eva...we are fortunate on the forum to have experienced people who help us all out...they share their experience with us and use the Protocol as their guide.
There is a lot to learn, but basically we all post a condo daily and look out for each other. The dosing people can recognize the things that are important in each kitty's SS. The experience they have gives them the knowledge to analyze what the numbers mean. The best thing that we can do is show them as many numbers on the SS as we can! WE don't have to do that analysis...they do!

Achilles has a nice curve right now with the yellow and then the drop to blue. You are following the suggestions given to you about the dose...holding it for the recommended number of cycles in the beginning. You are doing very well! We stick with a certain dose for a certain amount of time so there is no need for you to worry about understanding everything all at once. When you have some more data accumulated, you will see how Achilles' numbers are doing. You don't have to analyze it yourself or decide on the dose all by yourself. You will be fine...and the next step will be explained to you when it's time to change the dose. :razz: Just get those tests and you will be fine.....we love data! :razz:
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS 240, 169 (+5), 80 (+11)

80 at +11. We will retest for PMPS in an hour and I will post the number right away. Can I get some eyes on Achilles' numbers for advice on the PM dose amount?

Thanks.
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS 240, 169 (+5), 80 (+11)

Ok Eva...can you update your SS...and also, when you post your PMPS number, can you mention whether you will be home all night and available to do testings? Also, do you have plenty of strips on hand as well as HC gravy in case you need it?
When you repost, please put that info in your post and also write "shot help needed" in the header, ok? :razz:

ETA: Achilles is having a good reaction to the insulin. I see that you shot the 2.0u this morning as per your vet, right? As Jill and Libby mentioned yesterday, perhaps a lower starting dose would have been better.
My vet prescribed 4.0u right off the bat for Shadow and after joining the forum here, I decided to follow their suggestions and took the dose down to 1.0u. to start. This happens a lot when the vet prescribes a higher dose that the Protocol suggests. At any rate, you can see that this dose is having quite an effect, right?
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS 240, 169 (+5), 80 (+11)

Eva and Achilles said:
80 at +11. We will retest for PMPS in an hour and I will post the number right away. Can I get some eyes on Achilles' numbers for advice on the PM dose amount?

Thanks.
Click to expand...


yup, post your PMPS number as soon as possible before you shoot.
Oh and dont feed Achilles yet.
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS 240, 169 (+5), 80/90 (+11), PMPS

Ugh...my DH just fed him. He ate 1/2 can of FF.

Pat+Raja+Shadow said:
I see that you shot the 2.0u this morning as per your vet, right? As Jill and Libby mentioned yesterday, perhaps a lower starting dose would have been better.
Click to expand...

I lost the battle to shoot 1 u instead of 2. Vet said 2 and DH wanted to follow vet's instructions. At any rate, I will be taking charge from here on in.

I can't stay up all night to test. I can test at +1, +2, +3 and +4, but after that I have to hit the sack.
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS 240, 169 (+5), 80 (+11)

What is the PMPS?
You fed?
Oh...I thought you would come back and post the number....did you shoot yet?
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS 240, 169 (+5), 80 (+11)

how long can you stall tonight and still shoot 12 hours after that in the morning?

Get the +12 and we'll go from there.
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS 240, 169 (+5), 80 (+11)

Ok, about the food, with lantus you don't want to have food on board in the two hour time frame before a shot.

This can influence the preshot number, meaning it's not a clean preshot number.

A lot of us offer the last snack around +8 to +9 in both cycles. So in the future try not to feed before shot time.

Did you shoot already? 2u?
What is your PMPS number?
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS 240, 169 (+5), 80 (+11)

Even with the possibility of a food spike, please post what your test was before you gave your shot. Please post your numbers as you get them tonight. I might have walked cautiously with respect to your giving a shot on this low of a number -- especially if Achilles PMPS was green. You don't have a lot of data to be shooting this low. Monitoring will be very important tonight.

And can we come up with a set of rules for DH? The first being no food within 2 hours before shot time?
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

PMPS of 147 with 1/2 can of FF given about 20 minutes before shot.

ETA: no shot yet. Waiting for guidance.

Thoughts?
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

Whew! I'm glad you hadn't shot yet.

I'm voting for 1.0u. I think you're seeing the effect of LC canned food and you don't need all of that 2.0u.
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

you can monitor tonight?

are you still wanting to keep the 2u dose? 1 or 1.5 would have been closer to the starting dose we would have recommended. I know you have the vet telling you something different.
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

I vote for 1u too :mrgreen:

much safer at this point
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

I can monitor up to +4. The latest we can shoot tomorrow morning is 9am, but keeping a 9am/9pm schedule going forward will not be practical.

I am not committed to shooting 2u tonight. I'm open to suggestions.
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

My cat is 8 days into this diabetes thing, and I also reduced the dose when I was getting those type of preshot numbers. He is doing well based on those moves. I'm a newbie so I am not in a position to give advice, just what's working for me.
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

I just want to give you a LL welcome lots of guiding hands in your condo tonight to help you out :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

Usually we like for new people to wait until about 150-180 to shoot their first time. Achilles is 147 (hey that's almost 150). If that was only 20 minutes after food then there probably isn't tooooo much effect from the food yet. It looks like he is going up fast and is shootable.

BUT... I'm going to give you a couple of choices. You can be aggressive and hold the 2u dose if you want to, but if you do you have to test a lot more over the next few days. He will probably bounce high tonight, but when the bounce clears (up to 72 hours) he might go low again. When they start on too high a dose, I can't assure you "he'll be ok if you shoot low" like we can for the cats who worked UP the dosing scale according to our protocol. OR, you can reduce the dose to 1 or 1.5 and start over. Then we'll know his dose is ok. I know you're a bit worried about leaving him during the day - starting over will give you confidence that he is ok while you're gone.
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

During the remaining week we can test at +5 and then again at +11. After the PM dose we can test more. We plan to do a curve over the weekend.

I'd hate to see him bounce high tonight and drop low.

I'm leaning towards lowering the dose and starting over.
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

your cat, your decision. :smile: We're here to give you our thoughts and experience but you're the one holding the syringe. Personally, I am usually aggressive with dosing, but you're so new and we don't have any data on Achilles' response to insulin yet, and that makes me want to start conservatively. We can always move back up the dosing scale fairly quickly if we have to.

FYI, most likely he will go high tonight regardless. They usually do when they hit green and are not used to it. It will clear.
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

I vote for anything Libby says!

Seriously, I bow down to Libby, who Knows Her Stuff. :mrgreen:
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

Thank you all. I guess I will be on guard duty for a few hours tonight.
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

Hi - I just wanted to stop on by and say HI!, and welcome to Lantus Land. There are lots of great people here that will help you out. Good luck, and welcome aboard!
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

Usually whenever we shoot our lowest preshot, we test at +1 and +2. This will let you know which way Achilles is planning to go this cycle, and it also gives you data that will be useful next time you have a low preshot. So my recommendation is a +1 test. Usually the +1 is a little higher than the preshot. +2 is usually about the same, and by +3 he'll start going lower if he is planning to do that. At some point he will probably start bouncing and will go straight up instead of having a nice curve. They all do that at first.
 
Re: 8/25AchillesAMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11,PMPS147 SHOT HELP PLEAS

hey you shot! :RAHCAT

ok, you went with 1.50u...so now we want you to get a +1 - that is a must

+1 from the time you gave shot. ----> see? what Libby just said! :mrgreen:

make sure Achilles has food on board for the first couple of hours.
and post your updates along the way.

You can clear your subject line now and use it for your BG updates as you get them.

good luck tonight! And remember, lots of beans here to help you along.
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11, PMPS147, 229+1

His +1 is 229. Looks like he's heading up.

All of you have been such a blessing to us. I am so glad to have found this board and all of you lovely and generous beans (slowly learning the LL lingo) ;-)
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11, PMPS147, 229+1

good, it might not be such a late night after all. Can you get a +2? You're doing great!
 
Re: 8/25 Achilles AMPS240, 169+5, 80/90+11, PMPS147, 229+1

+2 156

looks like achilles could see some action tonight. i'd get a +3.
glad you were able to catch those lower numbers and reduced the dose...
 
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