8/24 Leo AMPS 407, +3 370, +4 359 Newbie, need dose help

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Lisa & Leo

Lisa & Leo

Member Since 2012
Hi all,

We're new after our diagnosis 3 weeks ago, and the folks on the main forum sent me here for some Lantus information. I am trying to do a tight regulation but so far cannot monitor every day (I'm trying to get my husband to monitor 3 days I am out of town.)

Leo is 2 1/2 and 10 pounds, newly diagnosed with BG values in the 500s. His spreadsheet is in my sig. He's been in the 300-400 range since he was diagnosed about 3 weeks ago. He started at 1.5 and has been at 2 units for 2 weeks. We laid off the frequent testing at the vet's suggestion to give him a break from the trauma, and retested curves after starting the new dose. The values were still high. We couldn't test for the last 3 days because we were out of town and the sitter doesn't know how to do the BG testing. I returned home last night and had a better preshoot value (297 - yay!) I shot 2.5 units, which the vet approved based on the previous weeks values - that was the first shot at that dose. Since it was a new dose, I got up to test last night at +5 and his BG was 38!!! The summary of last night's adventure is below:

Summary
PMPS 297, 2.5 units (his first injection at 2.5 after 2 weeks at 2.0)
+5 38 (.25 Fancy Feast classics+chicken for a BG treat)
+5 and 10 minutes 43
+6 69 (a little more FF, he didn't want to eat)
+6.5 68
+7.25 84 (finally finished 1/2 can FF)
+10 176 (had eaten another small bit of FF before this reading)
AMPS 407

He didn't exhibit any symptoms, except maybe more aggressive play since my return pre shoot last night. He was his normal chipper self, eating normally. He was a little disinterested in eating in the night, but gobbled the chicken treats he got for the BG tests (fresh boiled chicken).

I had planned to back him down to 2.0 or 2.25 based on his readings until I got his AMPS, which is right back up to his preshoot values on 2.0 Units. So, I shot him with 2.5u. I wouldn't have done that and gone to work, but I am here all day and will take readings at +4, +5, +6 and other times to get a good idea what's happening.

Should I have done anything differently? Perhaps not shot 2.5u last night? Given a Fancy Feast with gravy in the night? (I forgot I bought the higher carb ones for hypo events.) Reduced the dose this morning? Any advice on testing today other than what I listed?

I'll keep his spreadsheet updated during the day.

Thanks,
Lisa and Leo
 
Re: Introduction and advice after a hypo event

Hi Lisa & Welcome to Lantus Land!

First of all, good catch, with that 38! You handled it well, except that on the first feeding where he had 38, a little high carb should have been given with the lc. You want to bring him up quickly at that point, then test every 20 minutes to 1/2 hr until he is over 60 when you can spread the times out more. Each feeding should only be about 1-2 tsp so he doesn't get full and will continue eating when you need him to for the steering of his numbers. Other than that you did a good job in a scary situation. You can log on here in the future for help and someone will stay up with you no matter what time and help you in the future so you don't have to go through that alone. :smile:

For some reason, a lot of vets put cats at risk by telling pet parents not to test. Would you consider giving a child insulin without first knowing what his bg level was? I bet the vet would not either! Yet they advise to do this with cats! As you knew before the vet told you to give Leo a 'break' testing is important and can save his life. We recommend a bare minimum of pre-shot tests and a mid-cycle test to see how low he is going so you know if the dose is proper for him. That would be 3 shots a day minimum. Maybe on the days you are out of town your husband would agree to test 2x a day for pre-shots at least? Then you could be sure he doesn't get too much when he is too low again.

Also, there is no reason that the tests should be traumatic. Most of the cats learn to look forward to their tests for the treats and the bonding time with their people (beans). :-D We'll be glad to help you make it a more pleasant experience for both of you by sharing out tips and methods.

I also think your dose is too high and until the dosing experts come on to advise you, I would bring the dose back to 2u before this latest increase. We increase and decrease by .25u increments usually to be sure we don't miss the right dose and to prevent this type of problem.

I'll be back soon. I have to give meds and a shot to Racci now, so don't worry if I don't reply right away. Will be bacck.

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: Introduction and advice after a hypo event

Hi Melanie,

Thanks for the reply and encouragement! Yes, I remembered I bought some hi carb FF for just this situation and I forgot I had it! But I had the bottle of Karo out!

I shouldn't have used the word "traumatic" ... he's decided the pleasure of fresh chicken or freeze-dried salmon outweighs the pain of the BG test! He will actually lead me to his room to get the test over with! He is a good boy about it.

My husband has tested him a couple times, and I think after this I can get him to test at least pre-shoot. I am looking for a sitter who will do testing - he travels too. I looked on Angie's list and didn't see anyone within about 60 miles (we're in central NJ).

I agree in retrospect that I should have given 2.25 or 2.0, and that had been my plan until I saw his AMPS value. Sigh, lesson learned. I hope his values don't go crazy today.

Why should he only get little bits of food when the BG values are so low? We let him free-range but he tends to eat at least 1/2 of his food at the time of the injection. By the next shoot, it's gone.

Thanks -
Lisa
 
Re: Introduction and advice after a hypo event

I definitely agree that you did a wonderful job on catching that 38. Good job!

Back, when Blackie was diagnosed, I too was also taking her to the vet's to be tested. It soon got to the point that I was able to test her myself, thanks for someone on here that came over to help teach me. When Blackie went into the hypo episode, she was on ProZinc, and at 8u BID, not to mention high carb food per the vet's suggestion. I dropped her to 1 unit, and immediately switched her to low carb food (Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblet), and started increasing by 0.25u.

I'm not an expert on dosing, however, Melanie made a good point that 2.5u is way too high for him right now as that would make him drop (like you saw). If you are able to, and are around most of the day, you can do a curve on him by testing him each hour to see how he is doing with the 2.0u, and then per the experts' suggestion(s) either increase or decrease the dose accordingly. Please wait until you get some feedback from an expert, though. I sometimes do a 12 hour curve on Blackie to see how she's doing on a dose in that cycle. Actually, she's due for one. :lol:

Good luck, and keep up the excellent work! Just remember... Over time you'll see some improvement as you go along, and it WILL get easier. :-D
 
Re: Introduction and advice after a hypo event

One other thing I forgot to mention is that he'll be going through bouncing on this dose. It'll straighten out after a day or 2 (sometimes it'll take 3 days for a bounce to clear, depending on the kitty), and then he should start giving you better #s. What you're experiencing right now is a bounce from the very low #s to the high # this morning. It's perfectly normal.

Food tends to spike #s, and more often than not it's best to give smaller amounts more often than large amounts less often, if that makes sense. Giving small amounts of food over time will help to stabilize #s better.
 
Re: Introduction and advice after a hypo event

Welcome, Lisa and Leo! I'm glad you followed the call to LL :mrgreen:

Let me take a few minutes to go over your SS, ok? Be right back.

Remind me, please: How many hours until shot time?
Jane
 
Re: Introduction and advice after a hypo event

Jane said:
Welcome, Lisa and Leo! I'm glad you followed the call to LL :mrgreen:

Let me take a few minutes to go over your SS, ok? Be right back.

Remind me, please: How many hours until shot time?
Jane
Click to expand...

I just shot him about 3 hours ago and will be taking a reading shortly. So it's another 9 hours to his next shot, so his nadir is on the way. I'm nervous but ready.
 
Re: Introduction and advice after a hypo event

Be sure to have a small amount of high carb food on hand, just in case he drops too low. A small amount should do the trick to bring him back up. Then test him 20-30 minutes after. If it doesn't, then try another small amount, retest in another 20-30 minutes.
 
Re: Introduction and advice after a hypo event

Lisa & Leo said:
I agree in retrospect that I should have given 2.25 or 2.0, and that had been my plan until I saw his AMPS value. Sigh, lesson learned. I hope his values don't go crazy today.

Why should he only get little bits of food when the BG values are so low? We let him free-range but he tends to eat at least 1/2 of his food at the time of the injection. By the next shoot, it's gone.

Thanks - Lisa
Click to expand...

Hello again, Lisa, Jane here.

Let me first address two things you mentioned there (see quote). While I know what you mean - as do most of us here - by feeling freaked out or anxious by an unusual pre-shot (higher than normal or lower than normal, both can be surprising), what is important for you to learn is that Lantus dosing is based on NADIRS (lowest points per 12-hour cycles), not on pre-shot BGs. If you have time, please go over the Tight Regulation Protocol, and review the info in it. Come back with any questions, anytime, and someone will be here to answer you. If you don't see anyone online right away, send a PM. ALSO:

Do you know how to adjust you subject line? Your thread (we call each daily thread a "condo" here in LL) is titled "Introduction and advice afetr hypo event." That's good, since you got our attention. But now that you *have* that, it would be good if you changed the title. Go to your very first post in this thread and select the "Edit" button (top right), click into the window for the title of the thread. Change it to our standard LL-Format: Date, Cat's Name, Latest Pre-shot, and in your case, add "Newbie, Need Dose Help". Does that make sense?

The second thing you mention is that you don't know why you should only feed little bits of food when BG is very low. The reason is that not all cats are going to come up and stay up with one or two helpings of high carb food (or high carb gravy, which is where the carbs are. Some cats will wobble back down even after a decent rise into safer numbers, even late in their cycle. We do not feed whole meals when we see low numbers so that the cat does not fill up, and will willingly eat more if the BG requires it. Does that make sense?

As far as your dose is concerned:
Please can you tell us how much you are able to monitor during the day, and during the night?
Have you got extra test strips in the house?
Have you HC food that Leo will readily eat?
Have you got karo?
Have you got back-up batteries for your glucometer or a back-up meter?

Melanie makes some good points :smile: (Hi Melanie! Thanks for jumping in!) Based on Leo's SS numbers, it look slike the 2.0u dose did give him some BG movement into the yellow, which is a decent start. The 2.5u pushed him down into the 30s, which is tricky to handle as a newbie and too low for comfort right now especially if you're not able to monitor that much. I would *tentatively* suggest going back to 2.0u, as Melanie said - but I would like you to answer the questions about how much you can monitor, first.

For now: If you can, please adjust your subject line. If you can, do some more reading - you'll hear that from us a lot around here :mrgreen: And again, WELCOME to LL, and well done on making your way here and being so dedicated to helping your beautiful Leo! You're not alone, and you've got plenty of back-up now to help you keep him safe and hopefully get him to be better and better!

Hugs,
Jane
 
Re: Introduction and advice after a hypo event

Lisa & Leo said:
I just shot him about 3 hours ago and will be taking a reading shortly. So it's another 9 hours to his next shot, so his nadir is on the way. I'm nervous but ready.
Click to expand...

Ok, Lisa. You're not alone. Read through my longer post, and let me know any questions you have, ok?

I take it from your SS that you shot 2.5u?
Jane
 
Re: Introduction and advice after a hypo event

Hi Jane,

Thanks for the references. I had read it, but with his values so high since the beginning, I glossed over the hypo information. I'll re-read.

Jane said:
As far as your dose is concerned:
Please can you tell us how much you are able to monitor during the day, and during the night?
Have you got extra test strips in the house?
Have you HC food that Leo will readily eat?
Have you got karo?
Have you got back-up batteries for your glucometer or a back-up meter?
Click to expand...

From Friday through Sunday I can do (at a minimum) preshots and a nadir. I will also do curves with a dose change. I'll be monitoring all nadirs as well this weekend. I work out of state Monday-Thursday and I hope to get my husband testing at least pre-shots and a nadir here and there.

I have about 20 strips and will be going to Walmart for more today.

I have some Fancy Feast gravy that he'll probably lick the juice out of. And he'll eat his sister's high carb hard food in a microsecond!

I have Karo

I don't have back-up batteries - good thought - I will get them too. No backup meter although a friend said he'd give me one if I wanted.

I think you're right about the 2 units. I'll take all his values to the vet this afternoon (after his nadir] - my other kitty has an appointment. I'll ask about the dose change then.

Thanks so much for all your help (everyone!)

Lisa
 
Re: Introduction and advice after a hypo event

Jane said:
I take it from your SS that you shot 2.5u?
Jane
Click to expand...

Yes, his shot this morning was 2.5 units. It was his first shot at this new dose (from 2.0u)
 
Re: 8/24 Leo 407- Newbie, need dose help

Ok, Lisa. Thanks for supplying all that info :smile:

Looks like Leo is going for a nice and slow approach to nadir this cycle, which would be great. That drop to 38 last time was at (+5), so to be safe, I would get a (+4) - is that ok with you? (From your SS, I'd say so far Leo's nadir is around +4/+5.) We want to get a good sense of where his nadir is right now (it can travel forward and back through the cycle - just to make it more interesting).

Chances are that his shed (are you familiar with this term already?) is filling up fairly quickly on the dose of 2.5u, given his very steep dive to 38 (which was most likely prompted already by the 2.0u dose - Lantus works cumulatively). SO we want to keep an eye on this cycle, for sure.

GREAT JOB on editing your subject line!

Jane
 
Re: 8/24 Leo 407- Newbie, need dose help

Hi, Lisa and welcome to Lantus Land.

Several people have covered a lot of the basics. I do, however, have a concern. In order to follow the Tight Regulation Protocol and to keep Leo safe, your husband is going to have to test at pre-shot athe the very minimum. It would be better if he could get spot checks in addition to the pre-shot tests when he's home. If he travels, I'd suggest asking at your vet's office if any of the vet techs cat sit on the side. If none of the techs there cat sit, they may know of other vet techs that sit. While I can't vouch for the quality, Sitter City also lists pet sitting services and pet sitters will often list their services on Yelp.

What you did today (i.e., keeping the dose at 2.5u) is what we refer to as "shooting through the bounce." When a cat is due to receive a dose reduction which Leo should get due to his numbers dropping below 50, but the numbers have bounced up the way his did this morning, you can shoot your old dose in order to help the numbers come back down. However, you should lower the dose. Ordinarily, doses are decreased by 0.25u. Like the others, I'm concerned that we don't know what Leo's nadir has been while you've been gone. I agree that bringing the dose back to 2.0u seems wise.

I am less concerned about your getting curves that your getting spot checks. Testing before you leave the house, when you come home, before you go to bed, etc. will help to fill in gaps on Leo's spreadsheet. I'm also a big fan of the +2 or the +3 test. It can help you to know where the cycle is heading.

You also mentioned that you feed your other cat a higher carb food than what Leo gets. You may want to consider feeding them both the same food. It will make your life considerably less complicated.
 
Re: 8/24 Leo 407- Newbie, need dose help

Jane said:
Ok, Lisa. Thanks for supplying all that info :smile:

Looks like Leo is going for a nice and slow approach to nadir this cycle, which would be great. That drop to 38 last time was at (+5), so to be safe, I would get a (+4) - is that ok with you? (From your SS, I'd say so far Leo's nadir is around +4/+5.) We want to get a good sense of where his nadir is right now (it can travel forward and back through the cycle - just to make it more interesting).
Click to expand...

Yup, I think it's around +5ish but I will be testing on the hour through at least +6 depending on how it goes. All the readings I took in the beginning were at 3 hours intervals - I didn't know to wander around +4 and +5 at times sometimes instead.

Jane said:
Chances are that his shed (are you familiar with this term already?) is filling up fairly quickly on the dose of 2.5u, given his very steep dive to 38 (which was most likely prompted already by the 2.0u dose - Lantus works cumulatively). SO we want to keep an eye on this cycle, for sure.
Click to expand...

Yes, I read about it. It seems like a change in dose, or an event like this (or a fur shot as we found out) can affect several subsequent cycles. Lots of learning involved in this! But I'm a techie, so it's fine and interesting from the information perspective.

Jane said:
GREAT JOB on editing your subject line!
Jane
Click to expand...

Thanks - I can be trained :-D
 
Re: 8/24 Leo 407- Newbie, need dose help

Hi Sienne,

The lab tech notion is a good idea. I'll ask when I go there today. I remember they didn't want to give recommendations for sitters, but maybe this would be different. I'll check out the site you listed.

Unfortunately, my other cat Molly is 13 and has kidney disease, so she needs low protein food ... and Leo needs high protein food! Aughgh! Leo gets fed in his room and Molly won't go in there (she doesn't care for the young upstart in her home). Leo, however, will eat her food if we aren't watching - he knows he's not supposed to and we keep it up off the ground and keep an eye on him. Molly's a grazer so we can't just separate her at meal time. Leo gets shut in a room when we are not here because they don't play nicely together and he is FIV+. That helps with the food situation.

Spot checks will be good when things have settled. I'm too concerned for this cycle (and perhaps the next) about another hypo event to miss anything.

Okay, I'm reading about shooting-through-the-bounce now...

Lisa
 
Re: 8/24 Leo 407- Newbie, need dose help

Sienne and Gabby said:
Hi, Lisa and welcome to Lantus Land. Several people have covered a lot of the basics. I do, however, have a concern. In order to follow the Tight Regulation Protocol and to keep Leo safe, your husband is going to have to test at pre-shot athe the very minimum. It would be better if he could get spot checks in addition to the pre-shot tests when he's home. If he travels, I'd suggest asking at your vet's office if any of the vet techs cat sit on the side. If none of the techs there cat sit, they may know of other vet techs that sit. While I can't vouch for the quality, Sitter City also lists pet sitting services and pet sitters will often list their services on Yelp.

What you did today (i.e., keeping the dose at 2.5u) is what we refer to as "shooting through the bounce." When a cat is due to receive a dose reduction which Leo should get due to his numbers dropping below 50, but the numbers have bounced up the way his did this morning, you can shoot your old dose in order to help the numbers come back down. However, you should lower the dose. Ordinarily, doses are decreased by 0.25u. Like the others, I'm concerned that we don't know what Leo's nadir has been while you've been gone. I agree that bringing the dose back to 2.0u seems wise.

I'm also a big fan of the +2 or the +3 test. It can help you to know where the cycle is heading.

You also mentioned that you feed your other cat a higher carb food than what Leo gets. You may want to consider feeding them both the same food. It will make your life considerably less complicated.
Click to expand...

Great that you're sticking with this cycle, Lisa, well done! I do want to make sure you saw Sienne's points. Spot checks, as Sienne says, are VITAL. Lantus is a wonderful, normally quite gentle insulin, BUT it can have very strong effects especially if the dose isn't the right one just yet. Sienne drew your attention to the (+2) and (+3) checks - these are very useful because they'll help you (and us) get a sense of *how* Leo gets to his nadir - how fast, for instance.

Sienne also mentions bouncing - are you familiar with this, or would you like some more info to explain it?

Any other questions? And be sure to get that (+4), ok?
Jane
 
Re: 8/24 Leo AMPS 407, +3 370, +4 359 Newbie, need dose hel

Leo never ceases to amaze ...

Summary
AMPS 407
+3 370
+4 359

Quite different from the last cycle and at the same dose !!!

PS - I've read a bit about bouncing but I don't know too much about it and how it relates to the readings and doses. So yes, an intro would be great and links if you have ones you like.

Thanks!
 
Re: 8/24 Leo AMPS 407, +3 370, +4 359 Newbie, need dose hel

Hi Lisa. Just taking a quick peek in from work. I see that you are located in Central New Jersey. I am in Hunterdon County. What county are you in? I don't know any pet sitters around here that test, but maybe if you just happen to be just around the corner, or something, I could help out.

Okay, back to work.. ;-)
 
Re: 8/24 Leo AMPS 407, +3 370, +4 359 Newbie, need dose hel

Looks like Leo is taking it nice and easy - wonderful! We LOVE easy around here! Stay watchful, though, ok? Next stop, (+5). They can surprise us. They're CATS, after all. :mrgreen:

Ok, about BOUNCING. Links, you'll get from others pitching in, I'm sure. For now, a little background theory. A cat that isn't used to healthy numbers (low blues, and mid-range to upper-range greens, sub-120 overall is ideal) will often show what we call "bounces". What happens is that the liver 'recognizes' that the cat's BG is lower than what it is used to. When the BG drops low enough to warrant a 'panicky' reaction from the liver, it will release glucagon and counter-regulatory hormones, in order to push the BG back up. This often happens more forcefully than would really have been necessary - it's a "panicky liver" overreaction. The BG zooms up - this is called a "bounce." Bounces can take up to 6 cycles to "clear" (meaning, the time it takes the cat's body to flush out and deal with the extra sugars and hormones). It's also important to remember that bounces are NORMAL - they do NOT warrant a panicked reaction from YOU (since the liver is already doing that). Sienne mentioned "shooting through the bounce", and she makes an excelent point. Wehn it's safe to do so, it can be a great approach to stick to the same dose for one last cycle, even if there has been a drop requiring a reduction (a drop into the 40s or even 30s) - that way, the higher BGs caused by the bounce will clear faster, and the new reduced dose has a better chance at taking hold.

Hope that helps. Waiting for BG update :smile:
Jane
 
Re: 8/24 Leo AMPS 407, +3 370, +4 359 Newbie, need dose hel

Jane

That explanation makes perfect sense - thank you so much for explaining it so clearly. I'd read about it but now that I see it in action with Leo, I understand it a lot better. So I realize that he earned a decrease of 0.25 and I could have done that decrease this morning, or I could shoot through the bounce (like I did) and then decrease his dose tonight. Okay, I feel a LOT better! I'm glad now that I did what I did, since he's flying higher than a kite right now. But I also understand it was important for me to be here to monitor him since I did that.

If (when) this happens again and I have to go to work, is it safe for me to give the lower dose and go? (I know, ECID, right?)

New reading: +5 389.

Summary
AMPS 407
+3 370
+4 359
+5 389
 
Re: 8/24 Leo AMPS 407, +3 370, +4 359 Newbie, need dose help

Hi Dyana,

I'm in Somerset county so we might be pretty close! Oh, I'm bummed you don't know of sitters around here to test. But if you wouldn't mind, maybe we can chat offline.

Thanks for the offer -
Lisa
 
Re: 8/24 Leo AMPS 407, +3 370, +4 359 Newbie, need dose hel

Hi Lisa!

I'm glad Jane (Hi Jane!) and Sienne came to visit and took care of you while I was taking care of Racci. It looks like Leo is taking it nice and slow now, though high. That's okay though. He may bounce tomorrow also. Some cats bounce for a few days, some for only one.

I've used vet techs in the past for Racci and it worked out well when I had to travel. They came 2x a day to take care of testing and giving insulin, asthma meds, etc and charged $20 per day. That was in CA. The cost will depend on where you live -the going price, and the tech and what you can work out as a regular deal. I was only doing it for a few days.

It looks like Jane has things under control here. Remember to ask any questions you have and someone here will have an answer. :razz:

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: 8/24 Leo AMPS 407, +3 370, +4 359 Newbie, need dose hel

Thank you everyone for walking me through this situation - I learned SO much from experiencing this first hand. I think everything should be okay for the rest of today, and I'll keep his spreadsheet updated. I have some errands to run in an hour or so. I'll post tomorrow with how this bounce continues.

Our best,
Lisa and Leo
 
Re: 8/24 Leo AMPS 407, +3 370, +4 359 Newbie, need dose hel

Lisa & Leo said:
Jane, If (when) this happens again and I have to go to work, is it safe for me to give the lower dose and go? (I know, ECID, right?)
Click to expand...

Hey Lisa

I'm about to sign off for the night. Generally, we here in LL try to avoid blanket statements when it comes to safety, because (yes, you're right) ECID. Whether it's safe for you to shoot, and what dose, will depend on what (and how much) data you are able to collect in the meantime. We'll have to play it by eara bit.

For now, you have a good way forward. The others will be here to pitch in for the next few hours. I will be back tomorrow morning (about 12 hours from now, for me). Overall, remember that the goal on Lantus is to find a dose you can shoot consistently for 3-5 days safely. Lantus needs consistent shooting to do its best work.

I really need to get to bed, but you can ask for extra attention anytime by altering your subject line or sending a PM to one of the "regulars", like Sienne, Dyana, Jill, Libby, Carl or Marje, when I'm "off duty" due to timezone factors :mrgreen: If you alter your subject line to show you want help, people will see you.

Happy cycling for now, stay safe, and I'll check in with you tomorrow!
Jane
 
Re: 8/24 Leo 407- Newbie, need dose help

re: your other cat Molly with kidney disease, low-protein food is not necessarily the way to go. Many feel that it is the phosphorus content and not so much the protein content in the food that is critical. I don't want to add more to your overtaxed brain, but take a look here when you get a chance: http://www.felinecrf.org/which_foods.htm

MJ
 
Re: 8/24 Leo AMPS 407, +3 370, +4 359 Newbie, need dose hel

Hi MJ,

We suspected kidney disease was on the way for a year or so, and she was just diagnosed with early stage. She has been eating Fancy Feast most of her life, with some healthy natural dry food mixed with "fruit loops" - one of the tasty but probably-lower-quality nutritional value ones. We've been slowly working her to Hill's k/d and Iams by mixing it with the Fancy Feast, and mixing the dry k/d in with her dry. She hated the other prescription one, I forget what it's called. She's been halfway decent about eating it, which is a success.

Thanks for the link - I will check it out. I started the research for her medical issues and then was whacked with Leo's shortly after so I'm juggling both. But today at the vet, we very happily found out that Molly is FIV negative! (Leo is FIV+ and we didn't know until his diabetes diagnosis.)

Lisa
 
Re: 8/24 Leo AMPS 407, +3 370, +4 359 Newbie, need dose hel

I want to add one thing to Jane's info about bounces. Lower than usual numbers can trigger a bounce, like Jane described. However, a fast drop can also trigger a bounce. That drop doesn't necessarily need to be into low numbers. For example, a cat could drop from the 400s to the mid-200s in an hour or two. The speed of the drop may trigger the bounce.

I also want to underscore MJ's point about kidney issues and diet. Phosphorus seems to be more the issue. If you've not already found this site, Tanya's Site is one of the "go to" places for cats with kidney issues.
 
Re: 8/24 Leo AMPS 407, +3 370, +4 359 Newbie, need dose hel

Hi Sienne,

That makes sense about the rapidly dropping values. I'll watch out for that too. I did trip across Tanya's site - I'll have to go back and read it in more detail. So much to learn! :o

Thanks,
Lisa
 
Re: 8/24 Leo AMPS 407, +3 370, +4 359 Newbie, need dose hel

Hi Lisa-

You've gotten tons of info, so I'm just stopping in to say "Welcome!" We're in NJ, too....Mercer County, so also not that far away!

Keep posting questions...as you can see, we're one big family here, and everyone is very generous with their time and knowledge.

Have a great weekend!

Amy
 
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