Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
I just retested. his numbers were +3 was 39....I gave him honey and fed. He seems ok I will retest in 15 minutes. HELP!
8/24 HEATHY amps 266! HELP TODAY PLEASE
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Angela & Blackie & 3 Others
Member Since 2010
Re: How soon AFTER eating is it ok to test?
From what I understand, Lantus is a 12 hour insulin. However, I'm sure that someone will come by and help you with that. I'm not a good candidate for giving insulin advice.
With regards to the food, and testing... The food tends to raise the BG's up, which is called a food spike. Normally, and may someone please correct me if I'm wrong here, testing is done before they eat so that you can get an accurate reading, and know the # that you're shooting. If it's a food spiked #, it could be that may be a wrong #. I don't know. Normally, I test before I shoot, and then I feed afterwards. But, that's just me.
Good luck, and I hope that someone will come by soon to help you. Have a great day!
From what I understand, Lantus is a 12 hour insulin. However, I'm sure that someone will come by and help you with that. I'm not a good candidate for giving insulin advice.
With regards to the food, and testing... The food tends to raise the BG's up, which is called a food spike. Normally, and may someone please correct me if I'm wrong here, testing is done before they eat so that you can get an accurate reading, and know the # that you're shooting. If it's a food spiked #, it could be that may be a wrong #. I don't know. Normally, I test before I shoot, and then I feed afterwards. But, that's just me.
Good luck, and I hope that someone will come by soon to help you. Have a great day!
Re: How soon AFTER eating is it ok to test?
You have only limited flexibility with shot time - about 15 - 30 min. max. Because of the insulin shed, in order to be effective, we take advantage of the cumulative nature of how Lantus works. So, if you shoot early, it acts like a dose increase (and if you shoot late, it acts like a decrease in dose). There are times when it can be useful to shoot early. But to do so routinely can be a problem. If you look at Gabby's SS from 8/18, you'll see that I shot early. I'd been traveling, had reduced her dose for safety purposes since Gabby won't allow my cat sitter to test, and she was surfing in the pinks. That cycle, she dropped into greens. I also knew what to expect based on having a lot of data and I will test aggressively if I need to.
Generally, you do not want to feed 2 hours before shot time. Otherwise, the food may influence your pre-shot number. I feed over the first 4 hours of the cycle (pre-shot, +1, +2, and +3) and test at each of those times. I tend to think whether food is going to influence your results will depend to a large extent on how much you're feeding. A great deal also depends on how carb sensitive your cat is and you'll only know that from your test data.
You have only limited flexibility with shot time - about 15 - 30 min. max. Because of the insulin shed, in order to be effective, we take advantage of the cumulative nature of how Lantus works. So, if you shoot early, it acts like a dose increase (and if you shoot late, it acts like a decrease in dose). There are times when it can be useful to shoot early. But to do so routinely can be a problem. If you look at Gabby's SS from 8/18, you'll see that I shot early. I'd been traveling, had reduced her dose for safety purposes since Gabby won't allow my cat sitter to test, and she was surfing in the pinks. That cycle, she dropped into greens. I also knew what to expect based on having a lot of data and I will test aggressively if I need to.
Generally, you do not want to feed 2 hours before shot time. Otherwise, the food may influence your pre-shot number. I feed over the first 4 hours of the cycle (pre-shot, +1, +2, and +3) and test at each of those times. I tend to think whether food is going to influence your results will depend to a large extent on how much you're feeding. A great deal also depends on how carb sensitive your cat is and you'll only know that from your test data.
Re: Heathy #'s were 39!
You're doing exactly the right thing. Re-test, if his numbers haven't come up to the 50s, give him some LC + honey or other HC food. Repeat this process until you get stable numbers. Remember, as the HC wears off, numbers can drop again.
Also, it's best to not edit the text in your first post. People look for the last post in the thread for information. Also, if you add a new post, it bumps you up to the top of the list.
There are instructions for handling low numbers in the link I provided.
You're doing exactly the right thing. Re-test, if his numbers haven't come up to the 50s, give him some LC + honey or other HC food. Repeat this process until you get stable numbers. Remember, as the HC wears off, numbers can drop again.
Also, it's best to not edit the text in your first post. People look for the last post in the thread for information. Also, if you add a new post, it bumps you up to the top of the list.
There are instructions for handling low numbers in the link I provided.
Angela & Blackie & 3 Others
Member Since 2010
Re: Heathy #'s were 39!
As Sienne said, you're doing the right thing. The food, and honey, should help to bring him back up.
As Sienne said, you're doing the right thing. The food, and honey, should help to bring him back up.
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
Re: Heathy #'s were 39!
Ok. I retest at+15minutes 119. I gave him thehoney and wellness wet. He ate alot. Will test again in 15 min.
When I post for the second time like I did w/ the 911..do I just change the subect line and post at the end of the original message?? I'm confused? Thanks for being there>
Ok. I retest at+15minutes 119. I gave him thehoney and wellness wet. He ate alot. Will test again in 15 min.
When I post for the second time like I did w/ the 911..do I just change the subect line and post at the end of the original message?? I'm confused? Thanks for being there>
Angela & Blackie & 3 Others
Member Since 2010
Re: Heathy #'s were 39!
I think you leave the subject line alone, but you can add the 911 icon when there's an emergency so that those with more experience can see what's going on. When you have an emergency, I think you can add to the first post that you made, or add a new one at the end of your condo. I hope that makes sense.
That's a nice new # (the 119), though, and it seems like he's doing well. How is he acting?
I think you leave the subject line alone, but you can add the 911 icon when there's an emergency so that those with more experience can see what's going on. When you have an emergency, I think you can add to the first post that you made, or add a new one at the end of your condo. I hope that makes sense.
That's a nice new # (the 119), though, and it seems like he's doing well. How is he acting?
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
Re: Heathy #'s were 39!
I just retested and he was 138. He ate a bit again. He is acting perfectly normal. Absolutely no signs! Thanks for your support.
I just retested and he was 138. He ate a bit again. He is acting perfectly normal. Absolutely no signs! Thanks for your support.
Re: Heathy #'s were 39!
Actually, you can change the subject line to reflect what's going on. Add a new post with the information in order to bump up the condo.
If your subject line asks for help, you don't need the 911 icon -- or use it until someone comes by and lends a hand and then remove it. (Once a question has been answered or you've gotten the help you need, you can let people know - by removing the icon or the request for help -- that all is now good.
Just an FYI -- don't over feed with low numbers. You need maybe a teaspoon of gravy and/or a few drops of honey/Karo. If you overfeed and need to keep feeding for a while, your cat may not be hungry and then you have a battle on your hands.
Most cats do not show symptoms. Because we test, it's rare that a cat would be in low numbers for long.
Actually, you can change the subject line to reflect what's going on. Add a new post with the information in order to bump up the condo.
If your subject line asks for help, you don't need the 911 icon -- or use it until someone comes by and lends a hand and then remove it. (Once a question has been answered or you've gotten the help you need, you can let people know - by removing the icon or the request for help -- that all is now good.
Just an FYI -- don't over feed with low numbers. You need maybe a teaspoon of gravy and/or a few drops of honey/Karo. If you overfeed and need to keep feeding for a while, your cat may not be hungry and then you have a battle on your hands.
Most cats do not show symptoms. Because we test, it's rare that a cat would be in low numbers for long.
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
Re: Heathy #'s were 39!
Heathy has never had a problem with eating LOL. He seems to be doing ok still. Thanks.
Heathy has never had a problem with eating LOL. He seems to be doing ok still. Thanks.
Angela & Blackie & 3 Others
Member Since 2010
Re: Heathy #'s were 39!
I'm glad that Sienne came by to clarify the posting and subject line information. That's good to know (and hopefully I'll remember too! :lol: )
Keep up the excellent work! You're both doing great!
I'm glad that Sienne came by to clarify the posting and subject line information. That's good to know (and hopefully I'll remember too! :lol: )
Keep up the excellent work! You're both doing great!
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
Re: Heathy +3 -39-!, +3.5-138 DOWN +5- 62!!!!
In one hour Heathy's numbers went from 138 to 62...gave him a little to eat...will retset in 15 minutes! any suggestions?
In one hour Heathy's numbers went from 138 to 62...gave him a little to eat...will retset in 15 minutes! any suggestions?
Sandy and Black Kitty
Member Since 2009
Re: Heathy +3 -39-!, +3.5-138 DOWN +5- 62!!!!
Hi there,
Here are the guidelines -
Easy does it -- Breathe - you're doing fine.
ETA - don't stuff him - a tsp at a time
Hi there,
Here are the guidelines -
Easy does it -- Breathe - you're doing fine.
ETA - don't stuff him - a tsp at a time
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
Re: Heathy +3 -39-!, +3.5-138 DOWN +5- 62!!!!
OK, Ok Ok,!! his +5:15- 110. Will tes in 15 minutes! He looks fine acting ok and it's lunchtime for him! Thank you for being here!
OK, Ok Ok,!! his +5:15- 110. Will tes in 15 minutes! He looks fine acting ok and it's lunchtime for him! Thank you for being here!
Lisa and Do Lou (GA)
Member Since 2010
Re: Heathy +3 -39-!, +3.5-138;+5- 62!;+5:15-110
Lets hop on the surfboard now Heathy
Lets hop on the surfboard now Heathy
PeterDevonMocha
Member Since 2009
Re: Heathy +3 -39-!, +3.5-138;+5- 62!;+5:15-110
Hi guys .. boy those low numbers sure are scary aren't they? I remember when we found mocha down in the 20's showing absolutely no signs of any distress .. so glad we test! You are doing great, just remember to breathe through it all ..
Hi guys .. boy those low numbers sure are scary aren't they? I remember when we found mocha down in the 20's showing absolutely no signs of any distress .. so glad we test! You are doing great, just remember to breathe through it all ..
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
Heathy +3 -39,+3.5-138;+5- 62!;+5:15-110;+7-119
Had a heck of a time getting blood. I wocha have fainted if I saw 20 LOL! Can't stop being so grateful for you all being here with me. Thanks
Had a heck of a time getting blood. I wocha have fainted if I saw 20 LOL! Can't stop being so grateful for you all being here with me. Thanks
Sam and S'mores
Member Since 2011
Re: Heathy numbers are improving! up to 119+7
It's really great to see such low numbers so early in treatment, even if it is terrifying!
I thin Heathy's earned a dose reduction to 1.75 with that 39, right? He may soar high later because of a bounce off the low numbers, but you don't want to react to that by overdosing.
You should probably edit your post subject line so that it starts with "8/23 Heathy", to match the general protocol in this forum. Thanks.
It's really great to see such low numbers so early in treatment, even if it is terrifying!
I thin Heathy's earned a dose reduction to 1.75 with that 39, right? He may soar high later because of a bounce off the low numbers, but you don't want to react to that by overdosing.
You should probably edit your post subject line so that it starts with "8/23 Heathy", to match the general protocol in this forum. Thanks.
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
8/23 Heathy numbers are improving! up
Now...Heathy's next dose ois at 6:00pm four houirs from now. Should we give him another dose or skip it if his number are in the 100's
Now...Heathy's next dose ois at 6:00pm four houirs from now. Should we give him another dose or skip it if his number are in the 100's
MJ+Donovan
Member Since 2009
Re: 8/23 Heathy numbers are improving! up
Did you skip this morning's dose? SS is empty there.
If you're able to monitor tonight and Heathy's numbers don't drop again between now and then, you can shoot the reduced dose. I don't see any nighttime data (looks like you've just started home testing), so if you can't do that, I wouldn't shoot; or, shoot a minimal amount like 0.5U. I'm seeing an excellent response to the insulin today, and while it would be great to keep the momentum going, better safe than sorry.
Change the subject line in your first post to "8/23 Heathy - PM dose?" or something like that.
MJ&Donovan
Did you skip this morning's dose? SS is empty there.
If you're able to monitor tonight and Heathy's numbers don't drop again between now and then, you can shoot the reduced dose. I don't see any nighttime data (looks like you've just started home testing), so if you can't do that, I wouldn't shoot; or, shoot a minimal amount like 0.5U. I'm seeing an excellent response to the insulin today, and while it would be great to keep the momentum going, better safe than sorry.
Change the subject line in your first post to "8/23 Heathy - PM dose?" or something like that.
MJ&Donovan
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/23 Heathy numbers are improving! up
mj's right - you do get a .25 dose reduction because of going below 50 today.
that link that sienne gave you "Shooting & Handling Low Numbers" addresses your question about tonight. You want to read it now so you'll be prepared tonight. basically if you get a number lower than you are used to, you decide if you're prepared to monitor first - will you be home, have test strips, have high carbs, etc.
if so, you can shoot your intended dose. in your case, that's .25 less than this morning.
you can also stall a few minutes (15 minutes) without feeding, recheck and see where the numbers are. as long as they aren't falling, you're probably ok to go ahead and shoot.
if you aren't comfy, though, you can give a reduced dose or skip it entirely.
the catch is that in order to work towards going off of insulin, you have to shoot lower numbers. it's just part of it. and skipping sets up a wonky numbers situation for a day or two - so . . . ideally, we all get the point where we suck in our guts and shoot the lower number. but don't do it before you're ready.
if you want help, just post. nearly everyone has to deal with low numbers here and there so there are many people who can hold your hand through it. it's just a little easier with someone affirming that you're doing the right thing.
mj's right - you do get a .25 dose reduction because of going below 50 today.
that link that sienne gave you "Shooting & Handling Low Numbers" addresses your question about tonight. You want to read it now so you'll be prepared tonight. basically if you get a number lower than you are used to, you decide if you're prepared to monitor first - will you be home, have test strips, have high carbs, etc.
if so, you can shoot your intended dose. in your case, that's .25 less than this morning.
you can also stall a few minutes (15 minutes) without feeding, recheck and see where the numbers are. as long as they aren't falling, you're probably ok to go ahead and shoot.
if you aren't comfy, though, you can give a reduced dose or skip it entirely.
the catch is that in order to work towards going off of insulin, you have to shoot lower numbers. it's just part of it. and skipping sets up a wonky numbers situation for a day or two - so . . . ideally, we all get the point where we suck in our guts and shoot the lower number. but don't do it before you're ready.
if you want help, just post. nearly everyone has to deal with low numbers here and there so there are many people who can hold your hand through it. it's just a little easier with someone affirming that you're doing the right thing.
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/23 Heathy #climbed 39+2.5, 247pmps
Called vet, he suggested based on todays #'s to go with 1unit. I'll keep testing!
Called vet, he suggested based on todays #'s to go with 1unit. I'll keep testing!
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/23 Heathy from 39 +2.5 to 247 PMPS 1unit
have you talked with your vet about the Rand/Roomp Protocol? That would have you reducing by .25 . . . the goal of the R/R Protocol (have you read it? top of this page) is to get a cat off of insulin if at all possible. a lot of vets have their goal as keeping a cat between 100-200. is that what your vet's goal is? for people who aren't home-testing, that is probably a reasonable goal.
it would probably help you to have a conversation with him about that - because if your goal is going off of insulin and his goal is keeping heathy between 100-200, you have to decide what you're going to do.
have you talked with your vet about the Rand/Roomp Protocol? That would have you reducing by .25 . . . the goal of the R/R Protocol (have you read it? top of this page) is to get a cat off of insulin if at all possible. a lot of vets have their goal as keeping a cat between 100-200. is that what your vet's goal is? for people who aren't home-testing, that is probably a reasonable goal.
it would probably help you to have a conversation with him about that - because if your goal is going off of insulin and his goal is keeping heathy between 100-200, you have to decide what you're going to do.
Sam and S'mores
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/23 Heathy from 39 +2.5 to 247 PMPS 1unit
What did you decide to shoot?
I second Julie's comment. My very highly qualified vet was just not at all interested in supporting us in getting S'mores off of insulin. If I had followed their advice, we would be on insulin forever, rather than 3 weeks later going off the juice (at least for the first week of the OTJ trial... fingers crossed that it will hold).
It is much more involved, and certainly more stressful, to follow the published, peer-reviewed Rand protocol (with some modifications based on user's advice here), but it is MUCH MUCH MUCH more likely (84% for newly diagnosed cats) to result in a cat that goes into remission.
In the end, you need to be comfortable with the dose you are shooting. But we will be there to help all day or all night if you need the support. I promise.
What did you decide to shoot?
I second Julie's comment. My very highly qualified vet was just not at all interested in supporting us in getting S'mores off of insulin. If I had followed their advice, we would be on insulin forever, rather than 3 weeks later going off the juice (at least for the first week of the OTJ trial... fingers crossed that it will hold).
It is much more involved, and certainly more stressful, to follow the published, peer-reviewed Rand protocol (with some modifications based on user's advice here), but it is MUCH MUCH MUCH more likely (84% for newly diagnosed cats) to result in a cat that goes into remission.
In the end, you need to be comfortable with the dose you are shooting. But we will be there to help all day or all night if you need the support. I promise.
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/23 Heathy from 39 +2.5 to 247 PMPS 1unit
I have an appointment on thursday w/him. I send him the chart. I'll monitor Heathy this evening. I got very scared. The vet knows that Heathy's "normal numbers are 80's-90's. And yes I want Heathy off insulin.
I have an appointment on thursday w/him. I send him the chart. I'll monitor Heathy this evening. I got very scared. The vet knows that Heathy's "normal numbers are 80's-90's. And yes I want Heathy off insulin.
Sam and S'mores
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/23 Heathy PMPS +2 -262- PM testing?
We have all been there. The first time I saw really low numbers, I pulled way back on the shot as well. I don't know if that was the right decision in retrospect, but it was what I was comfortable with at the time.
Heathy will probably spend a bunch of time <80 as he is healing. With the Lantus, his BG regulation will never be as good as it was (will be?) when his body is regulating without help. If you tried to stay >80 all the time, you would probably have to undershoot such that he was >>100 a lot of the time, and that is going to inhibit healing.
If you look at the published protocol, steps 3 and 4 show how you wean off of insulin either by repeatedly going <50 (and reducing the dose by 0.25 each time), or by holding steady <100 and slowly weaning off. Decreasing the dose because of repeated trips below 50 is certainly scary, but it means the cat is spending lots of time <100, which promotes healing.
After a trip to very low numbers (like you saw today), cats can "bounce" for up to 72 hours, so you will need to basically ignore the high numbers and keep shooting what you think is the right baseline dose, and wait for Heathy to come back from the bounce. If you overshoot in response to the high numbers, you set up an unstable cycle where he will crash due to high doses, causing you to skip/reduce the dose, and then bounce high causing you to raise the dose again.
We have all been there. The first time I saw really low numbers, I pulled way back on the shot as well. I don't know if that was the right decision in retrospect, but it was what I was comfortable with at the time.
Heathy will probably spend a bunch of time <80 as he is healing. With the Lantus, his BG regulation will never be as good as it was (will be?) when his body is regulating without help. If you tried to stay >80 all the time, you would probably have to undershoot such that he was >>100 a lot of the time, and that is going to inhibit healing.
If you look at the published protocol, steps 3 and 4 show how you wean off of insulin either by repeatedly going <50 (and reducing the dose by 0.25 each time), or by holding steady <100 and slowly weaning off. Decreasing the dose because of repeated trips below 50 is certainly scary, but it means the cat is spending lots of time <100, which promotes healing.
After a trip to very low numbers (like you saw today), cats can "bounce" for up to 72 hours, so you will need to basically ignore the high numbers and keep shooting what you think is the right baseline dose, and wait for Heathy to come back from the bounce. If you overshoot in response to the high numbers, you set up an unstable cycle where he will crash due to high doses, causing you to skip/reduce the dose, and then bounce high causing you to raise the dose again.
Re: 8/23 Heathy PMPS +2 -262- PM testing?
One possibility to just put out there is that this round of FD may be different than the last time. There's no way to know if Heathy will go back to his previous pattern or not. Just observe and see what happens.
One possibility to just put out there is that this round of FD may be different than the last time. There's no way to know if Heathy will go back to his previous pattern or not. Just observe and see what happens.
Georgia and Simon (GA)
Member Since 2010
Re: 8/23 Heathy PMPS +2 -262- PM testing?
I am just now seeing what you and Heathy have been up to. Wow on the numbers and great job you are doing! I am not an expert but wanted to just say hi and glad to see you are getting some great advice from all the experts her on LL.
I am just now seeing what you and Heathy have been up to. Wow on the numbers and great job you are doing! I am not an expert but wanted to just say hi and glad to see you are getting some great advice from all the experts her on LL.
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/23 Heathy PMPS +2 -262- PM testing?
I have been reading and reading all this info. I just can't get a grasp on it.
According to the Roomp,Rand protocol, Heathy has been on the wrong dose.
He is 21 lbs getting 2 units.
Now, I've messed up on the 1st 6 days.
So todays, nadir was 39?
Yesterday was 106?
Do you base the increase or decrease of dose based on the lowest reading of the day?
This am preshot- Should I have lowered by.25?
Should I retest Heath again tonight? When the ideal time pmps +6? Help! Please!
Also, while on Lantus..is the goal to keep his BG between 50-80?
I have been reading and reading all this info. I just can't get a grasp on it.
According to the Roomp,Rand protocol, Heathy has been on the wrong dose.
He is 21 lbs getting 2 units.
Now, I've messed up on the 1st 6 days.
So todays, nadir was 39?
Yesterday was 106?
Do you base the increase or decrease of dose based on the lowest reading of the day?
This am preshot- Should I have lowered by.25?
Should I retest Heath again tonight? When the ideal time pmps +6? Help! Please!
Also, while on Lantus..is the goal to keep his BG between 50-80?
Sam and S'mores
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/23 Heathy PMPS +2 -262- PM testing?
The starting dose is always hard. 21lb is ~10kg = 2.5u, so 2u starting dose is perfectly reasonable. If it was way off, one of us would have mentioned it ;-) I'm sure you've noticed that people are not shy about giving advice here.
And Heathy has clearly responded quite well to this dose, so you've done well.
The increase or decrease is based on the lowest reading, with some minor consideration to the pre-shot reading. After 5 days of holding, 106 minimum and 257 maximum would suggest holding to the full 7 days of an initial dose. The nadir of 39, however, demands a dose decrease of 0.25u.
While on Lantus, the ideal target is to keep BG between 50 and 120. That is hard to do in practice, but it is the goal...
More readings are always better, but we do also need to sleep at some point @-) @-) @-) . At night, I like to get a +2 and a +3 if possible, to make sure that Smores was not crashing. If he is dropping fast, it's going to be a late night
. If he looks reasonable, then it's time to sleep to fight another day.
From the protocol sticky:
Edited to conform with Sienne's great advice
The starting dose is always hard. 21lb is ~10kg = 2.5u, so 2u starting dose is perfectly reasonable. If it was way off, one of us would have mentioned it ;-) I'm sure you've noticed that people are not shy about giving advice here.
And Heathy has clearly responded quite well to this dose, so you've done well.
The increase or decrease is based on the lowest reading, with some minor consideration to the pre-shot reading. After 5 days of holding, 106 minimum and 257 maximum would suggest holding to the full 7 days of an initial dose. The nadir of 39, however, demands a dose decrease of 0.25u.
While on Lantus, the ideal target is to keep BG between 50 and 120. That is hard to do in practice, but it is the goal...
More readings are always better, but we do also need to sleep at some point @-) @-) @-) . At night, I like to get a +2 and a +3 if possible, to make sure that Smores was not crashing. If he is dropping fast, it's going to be a late night
. If he looks reasonable, then it's time to sleep to fight another day.From the protocol sticky:
Edited to conform with Sienne's great advice
Re: 8/23 Heathy PMPS +2 -262- PM testing?
The weight based formula is for initial dose only and it's based on ideal weight in kilograms, not actual weight. That may make a difference. Frankly, I wouldn't worry about it. In any event, if 21 lbs is his ideal weight, based on that formula, his starting dose would have been 2.3u. His dose is fine.
You decrease the dose if a newly diagnosed cat falls below 50. In a cat that is beyond the first year since diagnosis, we've modified the profile to make it harder to earn a dose reduction. Instead, the cat's BG needs to drop below 40. Based on the latter criteria, Heathy has earned a decrease to 1.75u which you could have taken this evening. You can take the dose reduction tomorrow (Wed.) AM. I'm not sure why you would think you should have lowered the dose this morning. Heathy didn't earn the reduction until +2.5.
When a decrease is earned, you typically take the reduction the next cycle. The exception is if there's a bounce. If that happens, you have the option of keeping the old dose for another cycle and then reducing the next cycle.
Doses are increased if the cat is not in a normal BG range -- above 120. The goal with Lantus is to keep your cat in a normal BG range: 50 - 120.
You really, really, really need to start getting PM spot checks. Many cats have lower numbers at night. If you do not test at night, you are losing half of your data and, if this morning was any example, Heathy could sit in dangerously low numbers and you'd never know. When you test depends on your cat. You need to have enough data that you know where Lantus onset and nadir typically fall.
The weight based formula is for initial dose only and it's based on ideal weight in kilograms, not actual weight. That may make a difference. Frankly, I wouldn't worry about it. In any event, if 21 lbs is his ideal weight, based on that formula, his starting dose would have been 2.3u. His dose is fine.
You decrease the dose if a newly diagnosed cat falls below 50. In a cat that is beyond the first year since diagnosis, we've modified the profile to make it harder to earn a dose reduction. Instead, the cat's BG needs to drop below 40. Based on the latter criteria, Heathy has earned a decrease to 1.75u which you could have taken this evening. You can take the dose reduction tomorrow (Wed.) AM. I'm not sure why you would think you should have lowered the dose this morning. Heathy didn't earn the reduction until +2.5.
When a decrease is earned, you typically take the reduction the next cycle. The exception is if there's a bounce. If that happens, you have the option of keeping the old dose for another cycle and then reducing the next cycle.
Doses are increased if the cat is not in a normal BG range -- above 120. The goal with Lantus is to keep your cat in a normal BG range: 50 - 120.
You really, really, really need to start getting PM spot checks. Many cats have lower numbers at night. If you do not test at night, you are losing half of your data and, if this morning was any example, Heathy could sit in dangerously low numbers and you'd never know. When you test depends on your cat. You need to have enough data that you know where Lantus onset and nadir typically fall.
Sam and S'mores
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/23 Heathy PMPS +2 -262- PM testing?
Sienne: I think the question for this morning is what to do when a 127 is staring back at you when all of the previous pre-shots have been >200.
Sienne: I think the question for this morning is what to do when a 127 is staring back at you when all of the previous pre-shots have been >200.
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/23 Heathy PMPS +2 -262- PM testing?
Sorry I'm kind a dense. here, Since Heath's nadir was 39 today..the decrease should have been .25 or 1.75u
And I should maintain that dose until there is another decrease below 80.
Now, I lowered it by 1, and his # @ +2 went up. If tomorrow morn his numbers are still high over 200, can I then give him 1.75 dose? and keep it at that level for 3 days? Is this safe after reducing his dose from 2u to 1u.?
Sorry I'm kind a dense. here, Since Heath's nadir was 39 today..the decrease should have been .25 or 1.75u
And I should maintain that dose until there is another decrease below 80.
Now, I lowered it by 1, and his # @ +2 went up. If tomorrow morn his numbers are still high over 200, can I then give him 1.75 dose? and keep it at that level for 3 days? Is this safe after reducing his dose from 2u to 1u.?
MJ+Donovan
Member Since 2009
Re: 8/23 Heathy PMPS +2 -262- PM testing?
Can you update Heathy's SS please? It's easier to speculate if the numbers are grouped in one place.
PMPS was 247 and you shot 1 unit, and +2 is 262, correct? You may not see effects of the reduced dose until the next cycle, or there may be a delayed bounce from the 39. Wait and see how it goes.
MJ&Donovan
Can you update Heathy's SS please? It's easier to speculate if the numbers are grouped in one place.
PMPS was 247 and you shot 1 unit, and +2 is 262, correct? You may not see effects of the reduced dose until the next cycle, or there may be a delayed bounce from the 39. Wait and see how it goes.
MJ&Donovan
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/23 Heathy PMPS +2 -262- PM testing?
Yes, those are the correct numbers. I'm trying to get his bg now, with difficulty. will post as soon as I get it.
Yes, those are the correct numbers. I'm trying to get his bg now, with difficulty. will post as soon as I get it.
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
8/24 heathy +10.5 244 HELP w/dose
Heathy is so big I need help getting his BG. So at pmps 10.5 was 244. Since PMPS I reduced the unt from 2U to 1U. and his nadir was 39 .
Now at amps 1st dose do I give him 1.75U or increase by .25 or maintain at 1U? Thanks
Heathy is so big I need help getting his BG. So at pmps 10.5 was 244. Since PMPS I reduced the unt from 2U to 1U. and his nadir was 39 .
Now at amps 1st dose do I give him 1.75U or increase by .25 or maintain at 1U? Thanks
christine&ahmin
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/23 Heathy PMPS +2 -262- PM testing?
Hi,
Just stop in to support u! sorry that I'm not appropriate to give u advice since i'm newbie too.
But i would suggest u to amend the subject of your first post of this thread to "8/24 heathy +10.5 244 HELP w/dose" to draw attention for help.
Hi,
Just stop in to support u! sorry that I'm not appropriate to give u advice since i'm newbie too.
But i would suggest u to amend the subject of your first post of this thread to "8/24 heathy +10.5 244 HELP w/dose" to draw attention for help.
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/24 HEATHY PMPS +10.5 244 HELP W/ AMdose
Christina thanks. I'm having a heck of a time posting correctly here.
Christina thanks. I'm having a heck of a time posting correctly here.
Amy&TrixieCat
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/24 HEATHY PMPS +10.5 244 HELP W/ AMdose
In theory, when you make a dose adjustment - even if it's larger than it should be - you should maintain that dose for at least 6 cycles to see how it works out. With that thought, you should stay at the 1.0U for 5 more cycles since you went with that last night, even though your decrease should have taken you to 1.75U. Lantus does like consistency and bouncing from dose to dose can cause even more wonkiness.
However, someone with more dosing experience may come along shortly, and if they tell you otherwise, definitely follow what they have to say!
Amy
In theory, when you make a dose adjustment - even if it's larger than it should be - you should maintain that dose for at least 6 cycles to see how it works out. With that thought, you should stay at the 1.0U for 5 more cycles since you went with that last night, even though your decrease should have taken you to 1.75U. Lantus does like consistency and bouncing from dose to dose can cause even more wonkiness.
However, someone with more dosing experience may come along shortly, and if they tell you otherwise, definitely follow what they have to say!
Amy
Heathy and Mommy
Member Since 2011
Re: 8/24 HEATHY amps 266! HELP W/ maintenace
I gave Heathy 1U again amps. His amps was 266. I test again later. He ate small amount at +10.5 after the test which resultes in244. Now I gave him a small portion after the amps shot. I'll aim for smaller meals +1 +2 +3 +4.
Big question...do I maintain the 1unoit for 3days or can I go up to 1.75? I understand his numbers will be high for the next 72 hours- right?
I gave Heathy 1U again amps. His amps was 266. I test again later. He ate small amount at +10.5 after the test which resultes in244. Now I gave him a small portion after the amps shot. I'll aim for smaller meals +1 +2 +3 +4.
Big question...do I maintain the 1unoit for 3days or can I go up to 1.75? I understand his numbers will be high for the next 72 hours- right?
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 8/24 HEATHY amps 266! HELP W/ maintenace
a reduction was earned yesterday. the next dose is 1.75 units.
how about starting a new thread for today.
if heathy were mine, i would go right back up to 1.75u tonight.Heathy and Mommy said:
a reduction was earned yesterday. the next dose is 1.75 units.
how about starting a new thread for today.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 8/24 HEATHY PMPS +10.5 244 HELP W/ AMdose
it's really not any different than having given a BCS dose. the next cycle you can go right back to the correct dose.
no. you can go right back up to the appropriate dose.TrixieCat said:
it's really not any different than having given a BCS dose. the next cycle you can go right back to the correct dose.
Amy&TrixieCat
Member Since 2011
Thanks for the correction, Jill!
Nadya:
We start one thread (we call them condos) per cat per day. Please start a new condo for Heathy. It's hard to scroll through all of the posts when there are previous days' worth of information.
You also link your condos together. You copy the location of your condo from the day before and then paste it into your new condo. (You need to paste it between the URL brackets. Click on the URL button above the text box and paste the http: info in between the two sets of brackets.)
You may want to refamiliarize yourself with the dosing protocol The information is in the Tight Regulation sticky.
We start one thread (we call them condos) per cat per day. Please start a new condo for Heathy. It's hard to scroll through all of the posts when there are previous days' worth of information.
You also link your condos together. You copy the location of your condo from the day before and then paste it into your new condo. (You need to paste it between the URL brackets. Click on the URL button above the text box and paste the http: info in between the two sets of brackets.)
You may want to refamiliarize yourself with the dosing protocol The information is in the Tight Regulation sticky.
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