8/22 mocha pmps 229 +1 245 +2 179 +3 189, question

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PeterDevonMocha

PeterDevonMocha

Member Since 2009
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22928

WCR: We had planned on getting a +6 anyways but before the alarm started going off, mocha did .. she was louder then normal so we got the test a few minutes early. Sitting at 49 so we fed HC gravy w/ MC food and tested her of course, every hour after that. She finally came up around +8 and of course, sky rocketed this morning to stinkus pinkus land.

My question is this, libby suggested a few days ago to bump mocha up, which I'm all for, but now mocha is throwing out "some" low numbers at night and peter is thinking we need to hold her at this dose even longer. I'm itching to take her up and get rid of these pinks and yellows again but it is a no go with peter. What is the best thing to do with mocha right now, who just started a new pen on Friday, is throwing out some low numbers at night, but high numbers in the morning/day?
 
Re: 8/22 mocha amps 339

49 last night eh Mocha? wow...You are looking so good! Hope someone will be along to help you with the dose issue...
Hope you guys have a nice day today....
 
Re: 8/22 mocha amps 339

The strategy, if you decide to increase, is to use food to manipulate the curve. This is what I'm doing with Gabby. Because she tends to drop early in the cycle, I've loaded the front end with food -- meals are spread into 4 "courses" over the first 4 hours. If she starts dropping fast or is below 100, I feed gravy with her food. The idea is to first get blue pre-shots with green cycles and then work to get the entire cycle green. Likewise, the goal is to use food to prevent earning a decrease. You want to spend as much time in green numbers as possible so the pancreas is healing.

The process can be pretty labor intensive but you are good at following Mocha's numbers and will test. I've seen Gabby's cycles flatten out. I will say the effects are not immediate. If you look at Gabby's spreadsheet from when I started this in April, it's taken time and persistence.
 
Re: 8/22 mocha amps 339

Good luck with your decision. I am doing the same thing with Mannie as Sienne is with Gabby. Slowly we are getting there. Nice night for Mocha last night.
 
Re: 8/22 mocha amps 339

thanks for the replies. Mocha is never consistent on when she drops. Sometimes she will stay high all day, and an hour before her PMPS she drops 200 points and sits down in the 50s .. some mornings she is low, and then sky rockets before +4 ever rolls around .. would changing her feeding pattern help this? How can you manipulate the curve, if you don't know a consistent pattern of numbers?
 
Re: 8/22 mocha amps 339

When you feed is based on your cat, not the way that Michelle and I are feeding. Both Mannie and Gabby tend to plummet early. The strategy is meant to flatten out the curve, reduce bounces, and encourage better retention of dose reductions. You increase the dose until you are getting more consistent greens. Given that Mocha has been doing this to some degree already, it would likely be a matter of fattening the dose and closely monitoring. When you see something like a 100 point drop, start feeding her some gravy to slow things down. You've seen that when the cycle is flat, there are fewer bounces. That's the goal.
 
Re: 8/22 mocha amps 339

Devon, good luck with the dose decision. Nice green numbers for mocha last night, I know those bounces are frustrating. I hope she comes back down soon!
 
Re: 8/22 mocha amps 339 +4.5 324

Sienne, thanks for explaining (even further!) but I am still confused :oops: Are you saying to fatten her dose and then eventually change around her food times after monitoring her on a bigger dose? Or are you saying just watch her on this dose and try to change when we feed her based on testing her more often? I'm so confused!! Why is this so easy for everyone here except for me? I feel like the dunce of the class again!
 
Re: 8/22 mocha amps 339 +4.5 324

this FD businsess is confusing, I hope you figure it all out. Good luck to you and Mocha
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229

Well, no blue or green today (so far) I think we are going up in the morning. Probably 1.75. Barb, I know it really isn't easy for everyone else, but sometimes it just feels that way ... I know everyone here goes through this ....
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229

I don't feel comfortable enough to venture into the Mocha Spreadsheed world other than by encouraging you. Mocha's case is certainly not easy and you are hanging in there like a champion, I just wanted to tell you that... good work. I hope you get the answer to your question.
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229, WHAT DO WE DO NOW??

peter accidentally over shot mochas dose amount tonight. She receives (F)1.5, but he pulled out just a bit more then 3.0u, and then pushed out some, but got distracted and then shot the rest. He believes it was about 3.0u that he actually shot into her. So what do we do now??
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229, WHAT DO WE DO NOW??

don't panic, you can control it. At least she is higher than usual tonight, that's good.

I would start with a +2. Make sure you have plenty of MC/HC just in case. Probably everything will be fine, I think it's good that she is higher tonight.
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229, WHAT DO WE DO NOW??

thanks libby, we are running to walmart to pick up extra supplies! Thanks, we will grab a +2!
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229, WHAT DO WE DO NOW??

you might want to figure out how you can alternate taking naps. You'll probably need to watch her all night.
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229, WHAT DO WE DO NOW??

Don't worry Devon & Peter. You have everything under control and you know what to do. Think about the story where the bean's parents were cat sitting and they were supposed to shoot 3.0 units. They didn't see the period and shot 30 units!! The cat survived just fine. We'll be thinking of you tonight and we are here for support.

Ella & Stu

p.s. I think that what Sienne is getting at is that you should be on the lookout for Mocha's drops, and try to control them with food as they happen, no matter when they happen. I don't think she is suggesting that you change your feeding times, just that you be ready to use food to control the drops. Feed HC gravy to slow Mocha's drops down. And don't do dose reductions unless it is absolutely unavoidable. By keeping the insulin dose higher, you will get more blues and greens overall and eventually the drops will even out. The key is that you have to be around to monitor! (easier said than done). At least I think this is what Sienne is saying. I hope she will correct me if I'm wrong. The concept of many mini meals is at work here. I try to do this too, but at present Stu's numbers are so weird because of the other diagnoses, that I'm just trying to keep him on some kind of a keel. Many mini meals (MMM) helps!
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229, WHAT DO WE DO NOW??

ohh geez! You guys are pros though, like ppl said earlier, you have the tools you know what to do. No worries, k?
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229, WHAT DO WE DO NOW??

You got this Devon and Peter! You ran out and got your supplies and your are ready for whatever Ms. Mocha Jo Latte will give you.

Believe me, FD is not easy on everyone but you. I still feel inadequate at times and I certainly do not feel the least bit qualified to give dosing advice and I've been doing this dance for almost two years.

It goes w/o saying, but keep us up to date!
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229,

thanks everyone ... we ran out and got what we needed and got home in time to do a +1, she was at 245 and we will continue checking on her ... I'm trying very hard to not stress over it because believe me, I can stress! But I know we have it under control, it will just be a matter of getting mocha to eat when she needs to. She was not very hungry today, I think because her numbers were up there and she wasn't feeling that great.

Ella, thank you for explaining that to me ... we were doing several mini meals throughout the day, like every two hours but that did not seem to make any difference in mochas numbers .. she now eats at 8 a.m., 12 p.m., 4 p.m. and 8 p.m. .. she eats at 11:00 p.m., 12 a.m., 2 a.m., and 5 a.m. through the night. I wonder if we should go back to mini meals? If she does a significant drop at any time during the day or night, we do feed her MC or HC depending on what the situation calls for ... I wonder in ten years, when we are STILL dealing with this, if I will have more of an understanding on it??
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229 +1 245

good, I'm glad she's up a little.

The plan is to test a lot. Any semi-significant drops, go ahead and give gravy, even if she's not very low. We want to keep her from dropping very much so there is plenty of safety net.
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229 +1 245

yikes! Hope you guys have plenty of caffeine ready for the night! I'm sure it will be fine and Mocha will cooperate and not get too scary low!
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229 +1 245

If Mocha's appetite is a bit off, remember, you can use Karo. It's best to pair it with a bit of LC so you don't get sugar spikes.

We can sort out the feeding questions later!!
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229 +1 245 +2 179 MC & HC

well fed her some MC w/ HC gravy .. she's acting pretty rambunctious all of a sudden ... I hope the MC helps!
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229 +1 245 +2 179 MC & HC

I really want to encourage you to get ahead of Mocha's numbers. Forget the MC. Use HC. You just saw the front edge of onset. Use HC. (Have I said that enough?) I'd rather see Mocha not in green numbers so you don't have to fight to keep her numbers where you want them. The best way to do that is to have a cushion. MC won't give you a cushion. Use HC.

Unless Jill or Libby tell you otherwise, I'd use HC. It's really OK to abort this cycle. We'll figure out how to deal with where her numbers are at in the morning when we get there.

I guess I really have said to use HC enough.
 
Re: 8/22 mocha pmps 229 +1 245 +2 179 MC & HC

Sienne and Gabby said:
I really want to encourage you to get ahead of Mocha's numbers. Forget the MC. Use HC. You just saw the front edge of onset. Use HC. (Have I said that enough?) I'd rather see Mocha not in green numbers so you don't have to fight to keep her numbers where you want them. The best way to do that is to have a cushion. MC won't give you a cushion. Use HC.

Unless Jill or Libby tell you otherwise, I'd use HC. It's really OK to abort this cycle. We'll figure out how to deal with where her numbers are at in the morning when we get there.

I guess I really have said to use HC enough.
Click to expand...

hi devon. i totally agree with sienne. i'd rather see you abort this cycle by using hc to stay ahead of the numbers tonight. it's the safest thing to do. one aborted cycle will NOT hinder mocha's progress. she'll be back on track in no time.
 
Are you both suggesting to abort the MC food, and ONLY give the HC gravy we have? We do NOT have HC food, just HC gravy. Is this what you are suggesting? Also, should we fill her autofeeder with LC like we normally do?
 
what kind of gravy?

The idea is that gravy gives a lot of carbs without making her full. We don't know yet if this will be a total non-event, or if you'll have to be feeding her for hours. I would not put LC in the feeder at this point, but would just use HC to keep her surfing in this range.
 
i feel silly asking because i must be missing something, but how do you get hc gravy if you're not squeezing/spooning it out of a can of hc food?
 
the gravy we have is FF Grilled Beef Feast in gravy ... it does have chunks of meat in it, but mocha won't eat them, so we just use the gravy for her ... we pop the top of the can, but then push the lid down into the can, and squeeze out the juices, no meat comes out ...
 
Yup. The gravy you're using is HC -- I think we just use shorthand and refer to it as HC. I usually just spoon the gravy on top of some LC or just use the gravy solo if I need to seriously bump numbers (or even add syrup to it).
 
little bits of MC with gravy work.
the whole idea is you don't want her to get too full.
so, you may need to alternate. sometimes give her just gravy. sometimes give her a little MC topped with gravy. kwim?
 
ok yes, got it, thanks! We just fed HC gravy and now we are heading off to bed, but will do spot checks as needed. Thanks for the advice everyone!!
 
whoa... you'll be checking and feeding every hour, right?
the numbers look good right now, but there was an over dose tonight. the numbers could still drop out later in the cycle...
 
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