8/22-8/23 Trinity - Combined Condo enclosed. Comments?

[JoeyB]

8/22 AMPS 347 +6/254, PMPS 349 +2/327 +4/279 +6/282
8/23 AMPS 361 +5/280, PMPS 296 +4/268

Trinity earned a rise in dosage 2 days ago to 1.75 BID. According to the Tight Regulation I've been following, she'll probably be due for another rise to 2.0 BID in another 3-4 cycles as I see it.

Due to a couple messages I received here on the board, I'm working on lowering her wet foods into the 4-9% range rather then the 9-12% range she has been in.
Of course this entails having to trial and error bunches of pate's in the lowered range until I find the ones she likes. Finicky with her food she is, but once she finds something she likes she cleans the bowl. Problem is she turns her nose up at 3 out of 4 flavors I give her. Of course she likes the seafood onces the best. Le sigh...

I've kept Trinitys dry food intake to a minimum, slowly leaving the bowl empty more and more so I can push BOTH cats to a full wet diet at the same time, but I'm still hesitant to lower Trinity's intake at all due to her needing all the nutrition she can get until more regulated.

 

[doombuggy]

Once you fully take the dry away, those numbers will probably drop. They did for me in 2011 when Cedric was first dx'd. If you are concerned about them having food to eat whne you are not home, try and auto feeder with an ice pack. This is the one I use:
http://www.petmountain.com/product/elec ... eeder.html

I work 7 days a week and so I freeze a portion the night before and then the next morning, I set up a cold portion from the fridge around an ice cube then put the frozen portion on the other side. I set the cold one to open at about 10-10:30am (they normally are fed at 6am) and the frozen portion to open at between 3-4pm. The timer isn't precise, since you set it up to open by hours. I like the pop-up feature of the top and have only recently had problems with Cedric trying to "chew" on it. There are others out there, post in health forum or do a search of that forum for other feeders people here use.

Keep up the good work!

 

[nckitties3]

Just so you can keep it straight, decreases are EARNED by dropping into low numbers, increases are GIVEN because they aren't dropping low enough. You certainly don't want her earning an increase. I know, it's hard to get the jargon down. ohmygod_smile

I have to agree with everyone else, a change in diet will help her numbers considerably. I sent all 3 of mine cold turkey to canned from dry. Mine ate dry all their lives. Patches will be 7 next month, Lucian just turned 15 and Shadow will be 17 next month. I decided they were all going to be on the same wet diet for their health. With all the reading I've done, it showed me that the worst diet for a cat is dry. Of course, in the recent past, they have produced much lower carb dry food. But good lord, it's expensive! :shock:

It does take time to find what they like. But let me clue you in, they may get much more agreeable as time goes on. In the beginning, Lucian wouldn't eat half the flavors I tried, Patches 1 in 4. Shadow eats everything. But now, they'll eat just about anything I put down, including the ones he wouldn't touch 6 mos ago. You can tell, he likes some more than others, but he hasn't tried to bury his plate in months! The freeze dried liver treats that he used to get, helped by giving him something crunchy, I think. But after a few months, he decided he didn't want them any more and prefers cooked turkey meat. Go figure! :roll:

If you can find 1 or 2 LC flavors that she will eat consistently, you're fine. I had a vet tell me years ago, pet food manufacturers made the food in flavors for the humans, not the pets. Pets don't need variety and it can actually cause tummy issues, in some pets, to change what they are used to. He told me to pick one and stick with it. I've done that all my life, of course until I found out that dry isn't good for cats, etc. My dogs always ate the same food all their lives and lived to be 15+, which is great for Golden Retrievers.

If you're having problems getting them to eat canned, have you tried all the enticements? Like a sprinkle of Parmesan cheese or crush a couple freeze dried treats and put the crumbs on the food? Both those worked for me. There is also stuff you can buy, Forti Flora, I think it's called, (someone help me with that.) I also used the water off canned chicken or tuna, but you have to check the label to be sure it has nothing else in it, except the meat and water. I found canned turkey meat once and never again. Such a shame, it's Lucian's fave, so now I cook turkey for him. In the treats department, freeze dried treats should have nothing but the meat in them. NOTHING. Mine says, ingredients: Beef Liver and that's it. There are several types, turkey, chicken, liver, lamb, salmon, I'm sure you'll find one they like. As I said before, once you find the flavor they like, get it in the bigger dog treat bag and save yourself some $$. :thumbup

I noticed on Trinity's page, you don't use Janet or Binky's lists, you might try that, especially Janet's which is more up to date. Saves all the time calculating. Plus, it has just about every cat food made, that the companies would provide info for. Very useful.

I know it's said, not to give 'fish' more than once or twice a week, to stick with 'bird', but in the beginning, mine ate a fish flavor 2-1 over anything else, until they got used to the new diet. IMO better a low carb fish flavor than not eating. But mine become more agreeable with time. Mine now eat other flavors 3-1 over fish, which is closer to recommendations.

Also, when early dx'd, cats will eat more because their bodies just don't utilize the nutrients. The first few months, Lucian ate much more than he does now and he's still not regulated. There is a debate as to how to handle that, to let them eat as much as they want of LC whenever they want it or to have specific amounts at specific times. That's a personal choice IMO. Since I am home 99% of the time, I choose to feed him as much as he wants, when he wants it. He was 7# when I brought him home from the Vet and 8 months later almost back to normal at about 10.5#. He doesn't eat half as much now as when he came home.

I've written a book! And I'm sure all this has been told to you by others. :lol: Just want to give you as much info as I can think of, to help you with the transitions in this Sugar Dance.

 

[Blue]

8/22 AMPS 347 +6/254, PMPS 349 +2/327 +4/279 +6/282
8/23 AMPS 361 +5/280, PMPS 296 +4/268

Trinity earned a rise in dosage 2 days ago to 1.75 BID. According to the Tight Regulation I've been following, she'll probably be due for another rise to 2.0 BID in another 3-4 cycles as I see it.

Due to a couple messages I received here on the board, I'm working on lowering her wet foods into the 4-9% range rather then the 9-12% range she has been in.
Of course this entails having to trial and error bunches of pate's in the lowered range until I find the ones she likes. Finicky with her food she is, but once she finds something she likes she cleans the bowl. Problem is she turns her nose up at 3 out of 4 flavors I give her. Of course she likes the seafood onces the best. Le sigh...

I've kept Trinitys dry food intake to a minimum, slowly leaving the bowl empty more and more so I can push BOTH cats to a full wet diet at the same time, but I'm still hesitant to lower Trinity's intake at all due to her needing all the nutrition she can get until more regulated.

The most current list from which to select foods in the better carb range is Dr. Lisa's list
catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

I am assuming that you have been directed to her site catinfo.org where she talks about the health issues caused by feeding dry food and never mind what it does to a diabetic.

If your cats are eating wet food, I'd pull the dry completely. Cats are like kids and if you worry about cutting off their cookies too soon so they will eat their fruits and veggies, the kids would say it's too soon. Give them a choice of broccoli or oreos, and what will kids pick?
Pull the dry if they are eating the wet and that's that.

If you have a cat who is very carb sensitive, like one of mine was, just a mouthful of dry food would cause her numbers to soar into the 400s.... she could not have a single piece. Hey, she loved her dry all her life and if she could steal some, she would but it was for her health that she had to have only the wet.

It may take a day or two for you to see a difference, but be sure you are testing a fair amount because once that dry is gone, the numbers will drop and so will the dose. Be prepared for maybe even going off insulin once the dry is gone.

What do you mean about nutrients for Trinity, from dry food? What do you think she will be missing if she does not get dry food?

For dosing, you want to hold each dose for at least 6 shots..... some cats are slower to respond to a dose change and 3-4 shots only is too quick for a dose change. For now, with pulling the dry away, you would be best to hold the dose where it it now and not have to worry about any hypo occurrence.

Dry food is just too much of an unknown, so you will never be able to get a cat regulated when feeding some dry... the numbers will be erratic, depending what the dry was eaten and how much.

Your ultimate goal is to need no insulin or very little for your cat, and the sooner you take the dry, the sooner you will see a healthier cat.

Gayle

 

[JoeyB]

Just so you can keep it straight, decreases are EARNED by dropping into low numbers, increases are GIVEN because they aren't dropping low enough. You certainly don't want her earning an increase. I know, it's hard to get the jargon down. ohmygod_smile

I have to agree with everyone else, a change in diet will help her numbers considerably. I sent all 3 of mine cold turkey to canned from dry. Mine ate dry all their lives. Patches will be 7 next month, Lucian just turned 15 and Shadow will be 17 next month. I decided they were all going to be on the same wet diet for their health. With all the reading I've done, it showed me that the worst diet for a cat is dry. Of course, in the recent past, they have produced much lower carb dry food. But good lord, it's expensive! :shock:

It does take time to find what they like. But let me clue you in, they may get much more agreeable as time goes on. In the beginning, Lucian wouldn't eat half the flavors I tried, Patches 1 in 4. Shadow eats everything. But now, they'll eat just about anything I put down, including the ones he wouldn't touch 6 mos ago. You can tell, he likes some more than others, but he hasn't tried to bury his plate in months! The freeze dried liver treats that he used to get, helped by giving him something crunchy, I think. But after a few months, he decided he didn't want them any more and prefers cooked turkey meat. Go figure! :roll:

If you can find 1 or 2 LC flavors that she will eat consistently, you're fine. I had a vet tell me years ago, pet food manufacturers made the food in flavors for the humans, not the pets. Pets don't need variety and it can actually cause tummy issues, in some pets, to change what they are used to. He told me to pick one and stick with it. I've done that all my life, of course until I found out that dry isn't good for cats, etc. My dogs always ate the same food all their lives and lived to be 15+, which is great for Golden Retrievers.

If you're having problems getting them to eat canned, have you tried all the enticements? Like a sprinkle of Parmesan cheese or crush a couple freeze dried treats and put the crumbs on the food? Both those worked for me. There is also stuff you can buy, Forti Flora, I think it's called, (someone help me with that.) I also used the water off canned chicken or tuna, but you have to check the label to be sure it has nothing else in it, except the meat and water. I found canned turkey meat once and never again. Such a shame, it's Lucian's fave, so now I cook turkey for him. In the treats department, freeze dried treats should have nothing but the meat in them. NOTHING. Mine says, ingredients: Beef Liver and that's it. There are several types, turkey, chicken, liver, lamb, salmon, I'm sure you'll find one they like. As I said before, once you find the flavor they like, get it in the bigger dog treat bag and save yourself some $$. :thumbup

I noticed on Trinity's page, you don't use Janet or Binky's lists, you might try that, especially Janet's which is more up to date. Saves all the time calculating. Plus, it has just about every cat food made, that the companies would provide info for. Very useful.

I know it's said, not to give 'fish' more than once or twice a week, to stick with 'bird', but in the beginning, mine ate a fish flavor 2-1 over anything else, until they got used to the new diet. IMO better a low carb fish flavor than not eating. But mine become more agreeable with time. Mine now eat other flavors 3-1 over fish, which is closer to recommendations.

Also, when early dx'd, cats will eat more because their bodies just don't utilize the nutrients. The first few months, Lucian ate much more than he does now and he's still not regulated. There is a debate as to how to handle that, to let them eat as much as they want of LC whenever they want it or to have specific amounts at specific times. That's a personal choice IMO. Since I am home 99% of the time, I choose to feed him as much as he wants, when he wants it. He was 7# when I brought him home from the Vet and 8 months later almost back to normal at about 10.5#. He doesn't eat half as much now as when he came home.

I've written a book! And I'm sure all this has been told to you by others. :lol: Just want to give you as much info as I can think of, to help you with the transitions in this Sugar Dance.

Good point on the jargon, I'll update that in my head! ;-)

The march towards a full wet diet continues. I'm glad to hear about the fish thing, because of course they are her favorites. If I can get a full wet diet, and transition away from the fish later that would be fine in my mind. I had some FortiFlora that Venita sent me, but used it up and haven't had a chance to get more yet. It did entice them to eat some flavors, but even with it others were completely ignored by both cats.

The list I've used more then most is Dr Lisa's, at http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf.

I think like you do with the food, I want Trinity to eat as much as possible until I get her regulated to keep her calorie intake up. You're right, she eats more then normal now, but I'm sure once her BG #'s come into more acceptable ranges her appetite will decrease accordingly. The biggest problem I'm having currently is with my civvie Nubi, she has gained weight through all this due to the increase in food availability. She'll not be a happy kitty when the amounts decrease!

 

[JoeyB]

8/22 AMPS 347 +6/254, PMPS 349 +2/327 +4/279 +6/282
8/23 AMPS 361 +5/280, PMPS 296 +4/268

Trinity earned a rise in dosage 2 days ago to 1.75 BID. According to the Tight Regulation I've been following, she'll probably be due for another rise to 2.0 BID in another 3-4 cycles as I see it.

Due to a couple messages I received here on the board, I'm working on lowering her wet foods into the 4-9% range rather then the 9-12% range she has been in.
Of course this entails having to trial and error bunches of pate's in the lowered range until I find the ones she likes. Finicky with her food she is, but once she finds something she likes she cleans the bowl. Problem is she turns her nose up at 3 out of 4 flavors I give her. Of course she likes the seafood onces the best. Le sigh...

I've kept Trinitys dry food intake to a minimum, slowly leaving the bowl empty more and more so I can push BOTH cats to a full wet diet at the same time, but I'm still hesitant to lower Trinity's intake at all due to her needing all the nutrition she can get until more regulated.

The most current list from which to select foods in the better carb range is Dr. Lisa's list
catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

I am assuming that you have been directed to her site catinfo.org where she talks about the health issues caused by feeding dry food and never mind what it does to a diabetic.

If your cats are eating wet food, I'd pull the dry completely. Cats are like kids and if you worry about cutting off their cookies too soon so they will eat their fruits and veggies, the kids would say it's too soon. Give them a choice of broccoli or oreos, and what will kids pick?
Pull the dry if they are eating the wet and that's that.

If you have a cat who is very carb sensitive, like one of mine was, just a mouthful of dry food would cause her numbers to soar into the 400s.... she could not have a single piece. Hey, she loved her dry all her life and if she could steal some, she would but it was for her health that she had to have only the wet.

It may take a day or two for you to see a difference, but be sure you are testing a fair amount because once that dry is gone, the numbers will drop and so will the dose. Be prepared for maybe even going off insulin once the dry is gone.

What do you mean about nutrients for Trinity, from dry food? What do you think she will be missing if she does not get dry food?

For dosing, you want to hold each dose for at least 6 shots..... some cats are slower to respond to a dose change and 3-4 shots only is too quick for a dose change. For now, with pulling the dry away, you would be best to hold the dose where it it now and not have to worry about any hypo occurrence.

Dry food is just too much of an unknown, so you will never be able to get a cat regulated when feeding some dry... the numbers will be erratic, depending what the dry was eaten and how much.

Your ultimate goal is to need no insulin or very little for your cat, and the sooner you take the dry, the sooner you will see a healthier cat.

Gayle

Dr. Lisa's site is already familiar to me, and I like it's list more then most for it's completeness.

My next move will probably be to pull the dry completely as you say, see if it makes the difference I suspect it will. I'm beginning to think that she is very carb sensitive and her #'s won't come down until her diet is closer to what she should be eating all the time.

With the change in food, I'll wait on another dose change at least another 2-3 days to see how the food difference shows up in her testing. I thought the Nature's Variety Instinct that I use with a carb count of only 4% dry would help, but perhaps she is eating more then I think she is of it when I'm not around.

As far as nutrients from dry, I was more worried about her calorie intake then particular nutritionals per se.

Here's hoping for remission in the long run, that is what I'm aiming for if at all possible!

Thanks for your ideas, sometimes I have to be told things a few times before I put them into play real life. Going full wet is in the process...!