7 Units twice daily..

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Lilducknquackers

Member Since 2013
I have 2 cats, Tigger and Roo. They are 11 years old. Recently I found out that Roo has diabetes. The vet put her on Novolin at 4 units a day. It worked for a few weeks, but then I went on vacation for 2 weeks and my mother took over giving her the shots. When I got back, she was retested at the vet and they decided to up her to 5 units. I give Roo the shots twice a day at the exact time needed always. But even though I do that, after retesting her again a few weeks back, the vet upped her to 7 units twice a day. I feed my cats Iams multi-cat kibble and Iams senior kibble. I have tried wet food in the past, but neither really liked it at all. So I stick to the kibble. Roo used to weigh in around 16lbs. She is now down to 10.5 lbs. which the vet says is fine. To me she's boney and looks very thin, which is weird to me cause she was always my chubby kitty. Last night for the first time in her life, she peed on my sofa. She has NEVER done this before, only having an accident when she was a kitten years ago. I called the vet this morning to ask what I should do. He said to give her the weekend and watch her and on Monday to call back to see about more testing. Somethiong about her kidneys? My mother says I should put her down. I need help. What should I do?
 
Please learn to test your kitty's blood sugar at home.

Peeing on the couch is a cry for help.

Novolin N insulin is pretty harsh, and 7U is a big dose.

Diet change can help but LEARN TO TEST FIRST!!!! because that huge dose of insulin could be very dangerous if you make a sudden food change.
 
Hello, and welcome to FDMB!

First off, it is not at all uncommon for diabetic cats with very high blood glucose levels to pee where they shouldn't. It certainly happened to my cat (and once he peed on my pillow while he was sleeping next to me...) Cats need to pee much more when their sugar levels are high, and sometimes they just can't make it to the litter tray. So, the peeing problem may be nothing at all to do with her kidneys. The problem could just be that her diabetes is not under control. Putting a cat to sleep because of this would be a 'permanent solution' to a 'temporary problem'....

Secondly, the very best thing you could do to help get your cat's diabetes under better control is to learn to test her blood glucose at home. This shouldn't hurt your cat at all. Essentially, all it involves is taking the teensiest weensiest droplet of blood from the outer edge of her ear, transferring that to a test strip in a glucose meter, and waiting for the meter to count down and give the result. If you're willing to learn this we can help you. :smile: Most of us use ordinary glucose meters made for human diabetics.

'Hometesting' will help you to take care of your cat: It will enable you to see how the insulin is working for her (and whether it is too much or too little); it will help you to keep her safe from hypoglycemia; it will give you an understanding of your cat's diabetes like nothing else can; and it will save you a heap of money in vet's bills because you can do all of the necessary blood tests at home!

If at all possible, once you are hometesting (if you do decide to try that) we would strongly suggest that you switch your cat's diet to low carb wet food. Dry food is high in carbs and can elevate the blood glucose levels enormously. Some cats are harder to transition than others but it is well worth persisting. However, don't change her diet unless you are hometesting. That's because removing the dry food could lower her blood glucose levels, and a dose that may have been 'OK' may suddenly become too high. It may become necessary to lower the insulin dose.

Regarding the insulin dosage, 7 units is very high. How exactly did your vet arrive at that dosage?

Best wishes,

Eliz
 
Hi and Welcome to the FDMB. the best place you never expected to be.

What is your name? Mine is Deb and my sugardude is Wink.

What BG (blood glucose) numbers did you get at the vet?
Is there another complicating medical condition for your cat Roo?

I agree. You need to learn to home test your cat ASAP.

Go to your local Walmart and buy a Relion Confirm, Micro or Prime glucometer, matching test strips, lancets (look for ones labeled for alternate test site use).

We can teach you to home test with tips and tricks and videos.

7U of Novolin/Humulin N is a huge dose. You cat may be dropping very low at midcycle and in danger of hypoglycemia.

Please, please, please, learn to home test.
 
I wanted to let you know that I am very new here too, and was terrified of home testing. TERRIFIED.

After watching the videos and following the advice of the posters here, I did my first home test on July 4th and have been doing it multiple times a day. It is so much easier than I thought. In fact, our kitty Nadia took to it within the first day because to her it was an excuse to get lots of carb-free treats. She jumps onto the counter herself when its test time because she actually enjoys the time we spend doing it. I expected it to be a nightmare, and it has really been a breeze! I encourage you to learn to home test. If I can do it, I promise you can too. :)
 
Sorry for not posting my name earlier. I'm Sandra and I live in Massachusetts. Wasn't sure how to reply to everyone, so I took photos of the conversations that way I wouldn't forget who I was answering.
Hi Eliz. And hi to Bertie. I wouldn't mind learning how to test my cats blood at all. Not so sure about my mom though, I'd have to ask. I'm married by the way. My mother steps in to care for my cats when I'm away. Right now I'm unemployed, so I am able to watch Roo like a hawk. I give her medicine in the morning, follwed by her scoop of kibble and a clean water bowl. I do leave kibble out all day and I make sure water is available at all times. I do the same for them at night. But she's drinking like a fish. And as soon as it goes in, she's gotta pee it out it seems. I'm going thru twice as much litter as I used to and it weighs down our trash. The trashmen have complained. We recycle where I live, so we really only use a small bag of trash a week. Not sure if I should switch her litter? I use Freshstep scoopable and they like that. Is there anything I could use instead that would last longer? I also thought that 7 units was very high. When she started out in May she was only on 4 units and doing great. I think my vet said she was in the 100's? But since going on vacation, and going back and forth to the vet almost every week, she's gone up over 300. I believe it got up to 350? And I don't mean to sound stupid here, but what's the target range? My vet didn't explain this to me. He thinks she's leveled off around 300. He doesn't want to go any higher with the dosage thankfully. I will be calling him back on Monday to discuss things. He hasn't suggested hometesting her either. Should I bring that up as well? And I never want to put her down, that's my mother's bright idea. She thinks she's suffering. That cats shouldn't have diabetes. I've been reading as much as I can, but don't want to switch her diet without consuting the vet first. And I have asked him, several times I swear.
Hi Deb. And hi also to Wink. Roo was healthy prior to all this happening in May. I noticed she was getting really thin, so I contacted the vet. I had both my cats updated on their shots and had her tested to find out what was wrong with her. I've been home since April when I lost my job. I used to work full time, so prior to this she was a chubby kitty around 15-16 lbs. I believe. That's why I had her on the multi cat kibble. Her brother is fine at 10.5 lbs. He's always been the same weight. Her blood glucose was around the 100's when we started, but now it's in the 300's. The vet thinks she's stressed out as well. Who wouldn't be if they went to the vet every week? I know I'm stressed.
Hi Liz. And hi to Nadia. I am new to all this too. Roo was diagnosed in May of this year. She's 11 years old. I am terrified. I hate hurting her and giving her the needles. As does my mom, when I'm away. And vice versa, I watch her kitty when she's away. My cats don't get treats. They never took to them, I tried. They do however like a lil vanilla icecream or mac and cheese. But just the cheese. She sits in front of me and begs like a dog if I eat either of those. And I only give her a lil drop or two. Do the machines or the strips cost a lot? No insurance here and I don't buy anything online. Had my identity stolen years ago and I'm all set on that again. What a nightmare to fix.
 
Hi Sandra,

I'm in MA too, up on the north shore. You can see that over to the right, under my avatar picture of my sugardude Wink.

Cats can live long lives with diabetes. It takes making some changes to get them to feel better.

Not all vets even mention home testing to their clients. Maybe they think it will scare them off. We feel it gives us a sense of control and a lot of knowledge about how our cats are doing.

Testing meters are inexpensive to purchase, test strips a little more. A Walmart Relion Confirm, Micro or Prime glucometer are lower cost $15-17 for the meter. Test strips run Prime $18 for 100 test strips, needs 0.5 microliter blood drop. Confirm/Micro have interchangeable test strips and those cost $36 for 100 test strips, needs smaller 0.3 microliter blood drop. You need lancets to poke the ear too. Get ones labeled for 'alternate site testing'. Smaller number = bigger pin for pricking.

It can take a little bit to become good at testing. Most cats love freeze dried treats like chicken or liver.

Here is a new member shopping list if you want to buy supplies to get you started testing at home. It can save that money that you pay the vet every week for running the curves and help to get your cat better regulated.

Here are 2 links with information about home testing.
This one is the "how to's" of testing. how to home test

This second one is making your cat more comfortable with home testing. ear testing psychology

Normal numbers for a cat are 40-130.
Numbers above 250 mean your cat is excreting excess sugar into the urine. Long term, this causes nerve and organ damage.

Blood glucose numbers in the 100's are nice numbers. Not sure why your vet kept raising the dose if you were getting those nice numbers. Have you had fructosamine tests done?
 
Lilducknquackers said:
Sorry for not posting my name earlier. I'm Sandra and I live in Massachusetts. Wasn't sure how to reply to everyone, so I took photos of the conversations that way I wouldn't forget who I was answering.
Hi Eliz. And hi to Bertie. I wouldn't mind learning how to test my cats blood at all. Not so sure about my mom though, I'd have to ask. I'm married by the way. My mother steps in to care for my cats when I'm away. Right now I'm unemployed, so I am able to watch Roo like a hawk. I give her medicine in the morning, follwed by her scoop of kibble and a clean water bowl. I do leave kibble out all day and I make sure water is available at all times. I do the same for them at night. But she's drinking like a fish. And as soon as it goes in, she's gotta pee it out it seems. I'm going thru twice as much litter as I used to and it weighs down our trash. The trashmen have complained. We recycle where I live, so we really only use a small bag of trash a week. Not sure if I should switch her litter? I use Freshstep scoopable and they like that. Is there anything I could use instead that would last longer? I also thought that 7 units was very high. When she started out in May she was only on 4 units and doing great. I think my vet said she was in the 100's? But since going on vacation, and going back and forth to the vet almost every week, she's gone up over 300. I believe it got up to 350? And I don't mean to sound stupid here, but what's the target range? My vet didn't explain this to me. He thinks she's leveled off around 300. He doesn't want to go any higher with the dosage thankfully. I will be calling him back on Monday to discuss things. He hasn't suggested hometesting her either. Should I bring that up as well? And I never want to put her down, that's my mother's bright idea. She thinks she's suffering. That cats shouldn't have diabetes. I've been reading as much as I can, but don't want to switch her diet without consuting the vet first. And I have asked him, several times I swear.
Hi Deb. And hi also to Wink. Roo was healthy prior to all this happening in May. I noticed she was getting really thin, so I contacted the vet. I had both my cats updated on their shots and had her tested to find out what was wrong with her. I've been home since April when I lost my job. I used to work full time, so prior to this she was a chubby kitty around 15-16 lbs. I believe. That's why I had her on the multi cat kibble. Her brother is fine at 10.5 lbs. He's always been the same weight. Her blood glucose was around the 100's when we started, but now it's in the 300's. The vet thinks she's stressed out as well. Who wouldn't be if they went to the vet every week? I know I'm stressed.
Hi Liz. And hi to Nadia. I am new to all this too. Roo was diagnosed in May of this year. She's 11 years old. I am terrified. I hate hurting her and giving her the needles. As does my mom, when I'm away. And vice versa, I watch her kitty when she's away. My cats don't get treats. They never took to them, I tried. They do however like a lil vanilla icecream or mac and cheese. But just the cheese. She sits in front of me and begs like a dog if I eat either of those. And I only give her a lil drop or two. Do the machines or the strips cost a lot? No insurance here and I don't buy anything online. Had my identity stolen years ago and I'm all set on that again. What a nightmare to fix.
Click to expand...

Hi Sandra,
I'll pass with the niceties and get right to it. The cats will be much better; people can help you.

1. Home testing.... get started on this right away because your cat is likely getting too much insulin, but there is no way to know by getting tests done at the vet.... it's too expensive and the results are useless. Because cats are stressed just going to the vet and being at the vet, their numbers will be high. If you test at home, where your cat is relaxed, you will get real numbers that are true.

2. The diet.... do NOT make any changes to the food until you are home testing. The dry food is likely saving your cat from going hypo from so much insulin. Once you are testing OK, and can see what sort of numbers your cat is getting on that insulin (horrible, harsh insulin), you will be able to plan to drop the insulin dose and switch over to ALL wet low carb food. There are many cats who are diet controlled.... just by switching from dry food to wet food, they don`t need any insulin at all.
But you need to be testing first, and then fiddle with the food.
You can look around and price the wet food now if you like.... look at Dr. Lisa`s list and pick some foods that are under 10% carbs.
catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

For the insulin you are giving, you must feed before giving the shot because it`s quite harsh and pulls down the numbers fast and hard.

Food can be most of the pate kinds, but no gravies or grilled or marinated - if your cat likes gravy, just mix in water with the pate and you have gravy!

Home testing is not expensive; you can get a Relion meter and strips, as they are the most economical. Once you have the meter and strips, plus the lancets, post and people here can help you testing. There are lots of tips and also youtubes and videos you can watch.

Once you are testing, and feeding better food, you will need to look into a better insulin like Lantus or Levemir, but that`s only if your cat still needs insulin after the food change.

Gayle
 
A quick note on the Humulin N - due to the higher metabolism in cats vs dogs, N type insulins will last about 6-8 hours in your cat. If you're giving insulin only twice a day, this is likely resulting in 4-6 hours without any glucose control out of every 12. If you test when the insulin has worn off, it looks like the cat needs a dose increase, when it really needs a longer acting insulin.

Ways to work with N type insulins include picking up the food 6 hours after giving the insulin or dividing the total day's dose into 3 doses instead of 2 and shooting every 8 hours. Thats a hard schedule for most folks to follow.
 
The key to regulating or even remission in cats is 3 things. 84% of cats go into remission in 6 months with these things in place and most of the rest are well regulated and happy. So if you are open to testing then thats great!!

Three keys to diabetes treatment in cats
1. Food. The food needs to be a low carb wet canned <10% calories from carbs. You do not need a prescription food for the diabetes - its expensive and other low carb canned foods work just as well ie Fancy feast classic pates. Many people manage to transition their cats to wet, but if not, we can give low carb dry recommendations too!

2. Insulin - you want a good insulin that works well in cats - Lantus, Levemir or Prozinc.

3. Home testing - this is key to keep your cat safe and help adjust dose as they become regulated or go into remission. Don't change the food without home testing first as the food change can drop the blood glucose fast and then the insulin is too much.

Wendy
 
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