7/9 River AMPS 450 +2:400 +4:410 +8:464 +10:409

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Picknickchick

Picknickchick

Member Since 2013
Yesterday's Friday Night free-form fest

6:45 450 25.0 AMPS
6:45 3u Lantus
8:45 400 22.2
10:30 410 22.8
12:30 425 23.6
2:30 464 25.8
4:30 410 22.7


Something I'd like to understand is what it means when River's numbers go low. Does it mean his body is trying to heal?

2:30 +8: He is so high today! All red numbers. I can't help but wonder if somehow I gave him a fur shot.
I'm pretty good with a syringe, but I can't think of any other reason why he won't come down.
 
Re: 7/9 River AMPS 450 +2:400

Come on River, lets have a nice slide back down ;-)
Can't answer as I'm still learning as I go too ;-)
Have a Great Caturday Lara!
 
Re: 7/9 River AMPS 450 +2:400

Yuck, come back down, River!

Here is my explanation of what happens and I hope anyone who disagrees or has better information will correct me. :smile: The pancreas in cats can heal when the BG values are in normal range (40-120 mg/dL on a human meter) or even somewhat above normal range. But the liver gets used to the higher numbers and its job is safety. So when it sees lower numbers, it panics a bit and releases chemicals that send the BG back up. The liver can get used to normal numbers again but sometimes that will take a long time. Or never, as apparently is the case of a certain black cat that lives at my house. :roll: :lol: And sometimes it can happen very quickly. The other issue is glucose spilling into the urine, called the renal threshold. That is about 200 to 250 depending on the cat. It's better if you can prevent that. Hope this helps.
Liz
 
Re: 7/9 River AMPS 450 +2:400

When numbers drop, it can be the Lantus doing it's job and/or River's pancreas is sputtering. If you look at this from the other side, the high numbers are a "panic" response to River being in normal BG numbers. River's body isn't used to being in normal numbers as a result of the FD. So, when he is in a lower range, his liver and pancreas overreact by releasing glucagon and counterregulatory hormones which, in turn, spike BG. In a sense, it's like a kitty's body "forgets" what normal is. The more time River spends in good numbers, the more his body will get used to being in that range.
 
Re: 7/9 River AMPS 450 +2:400 +4:410

Thank you Pam and Liz!

Liz, I understand about bouncing, but what I really want to know about is what happens pre-bounce, when River goes down into the blues, like he did last night. Does that mean his body is trying to heal? Or doest it just mean that the insulin is making his numbers go down?

And your point about preventing glucose from spilling into the urine - how can I prevent that? Is it all up to the right insulin dosage, or is there something I'm not doing? If so, I'd want to correct that right away.

Sorry to hear about a certain black cat not getting those normal numbers. I've seen here there are some cats who after years suddenly have their pancreas kick in, and I'm hoping the same for Zener.
 
Re: 7/9 River AMPS 450 +2:400 +4:410

Thank you Sienne. I was wondering if perhaps his pancreas was giving a try, but didn't want to even entertain a false hope if not ;-)
I get the impression that River really wants to heal. I want to make sure I'm doing everything possible to help.
 
Re: 7/9 River AMPS 450 +2:400 +4:410

When his numbers drop, that could be due to the insulin shot, his pancreas making insulin, and/or the dissipation of the glucagon and counterregulatory hormones from the bounce. I don't understand much about the whole process but it's all rather complicated. Keeping his BG in normal range as much as possible is the best for his pancreas to heal and to stay below renal threshold to help his kidneys. I think his pancreas is probably putting out some insulin. Hopefully, Mr. P will decide to increase production. Paws crossed.

You are doing a great job with managing everything. The best thing is to stay on top of the dose and to increase if the nadirs are not getting low enough. That means you have to test (at least 4 times per day), which you are doing. Also give him low carb food and avoid high carb unless necessary, which I think you are also doing. Unfortunately, that certain black cat in my house will only eat 12% carb food and we are thankful for that, given his appy issues. :-D Even with his BG not being tightly regulated, our vet is always impressed with how good he looks, shiny coat, bright eyes, good weight. He seems to feel good most days, too, and that is very important. It sounds like River is feeling better too lately. :-D :-D
Liz
 
Re: 7/9 River AMPS 450 +2:400 +4:410

Your description is how I imagine Zener to be - bright-eyed and glossy, with that special kind of crazy that black cats have.

I'm just going over what I did last night, what I learned and how I would do things differently. What I would have changed is to have given him HC at 2, as you suggested, and then kept it all LC from then on, so that he would have had more of a chance to surf in the blues for longer, and less of a bounce. I'm learning for next time. It's looking like his nadirs are pretty okay, though, so I don't need to increase the dose. He had some high numbers yesterday, but I think that was because of a tummy issue.
 
Re: 7/9 River AMPS 450 +2:400 +4:410

Actually, I would suggest that you try to hold off on the HC and only use it to bring him up when he's below 50. We'd really like him to surf in the greens. Those are the normal numbers. That's pretty scary at first but you'll get used to it and you can do it gradually as you feel more comfortable. On the other hand, cats can bounce from steep drops, so giving him HC when he's dropping rapidly can sometimes help too. We've gone back and forth on different strategies. You'll just have to see what works for River. That's why keeping notes is important so you can look back and see the dose, what you fed, what the BGs were and decide if you want to adjust your strategy.
Liz
 
Re: 7/9 River AMPS 450 +2:400 +4:410

OK, thanks Liz. I broke out the HC a bit too early. I should have just fed the LC and waited, despite the big drop early on, do you think? When we were messaging last night about slowing the early drop, I am now assuming I misunderstood, by giving him the HC.
 
Re: 7/9 River AMPS 450 +2:400 +4:410

I hope River clears the bounce soon. You're doing a great job with River. You're going back and reviewing and learning what to do next. That is the way to do things so next time you can help River more. With FD, we have to learn as we go along.
 
Re: 7/9 River AMPS 450 +2:400 +4:410

All of this is a process. Would I have broken out the HC when you did? No -- but I've been managing Gabby's numbers a whole lot longer than you've been managing River's. I have a ton of data.

I really like the way you've approached the information. Looking at the cycle and thinking about what you would do differently is, IMHO, just what you want to do. What Liz and I may do may not be right for River because each of our cat's responds differently. What I think is the most important element of treating your cat's diabetes is you knowing your cat.
 
I can't figure out what is going on today. He's been so high all day.
I don't think I gave him a fur shot this morning, but I can't figure out what else it could be, because this is an extreme bounce.
 
Lovely night last night for River. Looks like his liver went into overdrive. :roll: Some days you just get to put away the testing kit and do something for yourself. Tonight is another cycle.
 
It's a bounce and it can take up to 72 hours to clear. :-x :-x :-x So put on those patience pants and wait it out. You did a fantastic job last night, exactly the right thing. You kept River safe. I am very proud of you. Now you have some data and next time you will probably do things a little differently. The best thing is that you're asking questions and learning more and more. :-D :-D
Liz
 
I'm not sure I can get the zipper done up on those pants anymore!

Thank you, Wendy and Liz. I just can't wait for to see those blues again...
(but I will).
 
Evening Lara! You didn't install some of those pink Cat House stairs over there, did you, 'cause River is sure up high today! Boo on bounces . . . but hang in there, it will pass. Meanwhile at least you don't have to hover over him with the high carb!
 
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