7/9 Jack AMGB 114!!
- Thread starter KigerKat
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KigerKat
Member Since 2011
Alright, just spoke to the vet, and his instructions now are to keep an eye on Jack to make sure he isn't eating or drinking like he was before or using the little box too much and make sure his behavior is normal. Just spot check him on a regular bases (same day and time each week), and if he's ever over 180, then do a little more testing to make sure it's not just an abnormal spike and then call him if Jack is testing over 180 on a regular basis.
I can't believe that it was just 3 weeks ago today that Jack had his first unit of insulin, and now he doesn't "need" it anymore. Could he really be OTJ already??? How long until his bottle of Lantus will start to go bad? I would really hate for almost an entire bottle to go to waste, so I would like to consider donating it, but at the same time I don't want to have to drop another $120 again if he doesn't need that much of it. I know the local shelters would LOVE to have that for a donation, but maybe I'll hang on to it for a while...just in case.
I can't believe that it was just 3 weeks ago today that Jack had his first unit of insulin, and now he doesn't "need" it anymore. Could he really be OTJ already??? How long until his bottle of Lantus will start to go bad? I would really hate for almost an entire bottle to go to waste, so I would like to consider donating it, but at the same time I don't want to have to drop another $120 again if he doesn't need that much of it. I know the local shelters would LOVE to have that for a donation, but maybe I'll hang on to it for a while...just in case.
Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
good luck!
I'm curious, what kind of meter are you using?
The Lantus won't stay good forever, since you have used some. Keeping it refrigerated will help it last longer, but I probably wouldn't hang onto it for more than a few months.
I'm curious, what kind of meter are you using?
The Lantus won't stay good forever, since you have used some. Keeping it refrigerated will help it last longer, but I probably wouldn't hang onto it for more than a few months.
KigerKat
Member Since 2011
We use an AlphaTrak monitor. My stepsister sent it to us, since she had to put her sugar kitty down a few months ago. :sad: I made sure everything wasn't expired and used the testing solution to make sure it was accurate. We even tested our Bengal (89) to make sure it wasn't off.
I can mostly tell he is getting better by the way he is acting. For several weeks, he wasn't doing any of his usual "stuff", but for the past week, he has really been acting more normal and even has more energy. I think the more energy is coming from the better food he's eating.
I can mostly tell he is getting better by the way he is acting. For several weeks, he wasn't doing any of his usual "stuff", but for the past week, he has really been acting more normal and even has more energy. I think the more energy is coming from the better food he's eating.
Angela & Blackie & 3 Others
Member Since 2010
Beautiful AMPS!!! I think he'll hit the :mrgreen: s in no time today. 
WTG!!!
WTG!!!
Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
I was wondering about the meter because his numbers are higher than we usually like to see for OTJ. However, AlphaTrak meters do tend to run a bit higher than the human meters most of us use, up to 30 points higher in the low range. That means 114 is right where it should be. Congrats!
MauiGuppy
Member Since 2011
I'm really sorry about this but I'm going to burst your bubble and say that I think it's too soon for Jack to be off insulin.
My vet told me that the goal for diabetic cats is for their BG to be between 150 and 200, which sounds like what your vet is thinking too. I wonder if your vet is familiar with the two leading protocols in managing feline diabetes: Rand and Tilly. Rand has shown success in remission when owners aimed for 50-100 on a human meter (equivalent of 80-130 on AlphaTrak). Here's the link to the study and the one of the parts that says that is at the very bottom of page 13. Here is the link to the Tilly protocol, the other leading study.
The cats that have been successful at FDMB are the ones that have been s-l-o-w-l-y weaned off. That means going from 1u down to .5u to .25u to .1u and then start a 2 week trial. If you'd like to see a recent successful one, check out Curry's spreadsheet. You want them as green as possible at the end.
I took my cat to 2 vets last week and both of them said that I'm over treating Junior. Judging by what they were saying (and what your vet is saying), I don't think they had a thorough knowledge of the 2 leading research studies.
- One said I should stop immediately and the other said I should stop shooting and testing for a week, even though his numbers are similar to Jack's
- One said not to test him for a few days. Why not? Isn't it better to have too much data and catch problems early than not enough? So I keep testing.
- One said my cat will hypo. It's not going to happen because I test him often (and not even as often as other people here). I have my hypo kit ready. I know what to do. I also know I can trust this board to guide me through it.
The hardest part is trying reconcile what your vet is telling you and what you're seeing on this board. After 5 months of listening to the advice from my 2 vets and this board, I've learned to trust this board more. That's hard to swallow when they have the medical degree and we don't. But from my experience, vets are more generalists whereas the folks here do nothing but live and breathe feline diabetes.
So I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I really am! But I'd put Jack back on (I'm not an expert -- ask for guidance here on this) and test him frequently until his spreadsheet looks similar to Curry's and the other 185 cats that have gone into remission through here.
Bonnie
My vet told me that the goal for diabetic cats is for their BG to be between 150 and 200, which sounds like what your vet is thinking too. I wonder if your vet is familiar with the two leading protocols in managing feline diabetes: Rand and Tilly. Rand has shown success in remission when owners aimed for 50-100 on a human meter (equivalent of 80-130 on AlphaTrak). Here's the link to the study and the one of the parts that says that is at the very bottom of page 13. Here is the link to the Tilly protocol, the other leading study.
The cats that have been successful at FDMB are the ones that have been s-l-o-w-l-y weaned off. That means going from 1u down to .5u to .25u to .1u and then start a 2 week trial. If you'd like to see a recent successful one, check out Curry's spreadsheet. You want them as green as possible at the end.
I took my cat to 2 vets last week and both of them said that I'm over treating Junior. Judging by what they were saying (and what your vet is saying), I don't think they had a thorough knowledge of the 2 leading research studies.
- One said I should stop immediately and the other said I should stop shooting and testing for a week, even though his numbers are similar to Jack's
- One said not to test him for a few days. Why not? Isn't it better to have too much data and catch problems early than not enough? So I keep testing.
- One said my cat will hypo. It's not going to happen because I test him often (and not even as often as other people here). I have my hypo kit ready. I know what to do. I also know I can trust this board to guide me through it.
The hardest part is trying reconcile what your vet is telling you and what you're seeing on this board. After 5 months of listening to the advice from my 2 vets and this board, I've learned to trust this board more. That's hard to swallow when they have the medical degree and we don't. But from my experience, vets are more generalists whereas the folks here do nothing but live and breathe feline diabetes.
So I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I really am! But I'd put Jack back on (I'm not an expert -- ask for guidance here on this) and test him frequently until his spreadsheet looks similar to Curry's and the other 185 cats that have gone into remission through here.
Bonnie
KigerKat
Member Since 2011
I appreciate the warning, Maui. I will look over the articles you linked and share them with my vet. It does sound like our vets have similar opinions, since my vet also asked me not to test for a few days this past week.
But I do have to trust my vet, since he is the one who is treating Jack. This does not mean that I don't sometimes question his decisions based on what I read here. DH and stressed and stressed over what kind of food to feed the cats and then which brand. Our vet strongly supported Jack being on the Science Diet Rx food for diabetics, and we even purchased a case of wet food and a bag of dry, but then began to really question how that particular food would affect his glucose reading when they were still so high in carbs.
Our vet doesn't have a very high opinion of a lot of the "natural" cat foods or the trendy brands like Wellness, and tried to persuade me to question how qualified these companies are, if they aren't supported by veterinary nutritionists. He even questioned Dr. Pierson's credentials and told me that any vet could start a website like she did, it didn't mean they were right. But I went with my gut and switched all of our kitties to Wellness canned, and I think that had a lot to do with the results we are seeing in Jack right now.
Should Jack's readings become high again and we end up going back on the insulin, I would question our vet's protocol a little more and suggest we try one of the methods you referred to here. But if there is a such thing as catching diabetes early, I think we did in Jack. All of his symptoms come up in the past couple of months. We were on vacation in May for 10 days, and the cats had an unlimited supply of dry kibble - I'm sure that's what might have pushed Jack over the edge. Once we got back, I noticed him acting differently: napping more often, loss of interest in playing, laying down after a few steps, camping out in front of his water bowl, eating all of his dinner right away, and a strong urine smell in the litter box. I thought he might snap out of it, until we weighed him and found that he lost about 2 pounds and decided to take him in. Our vet doesn't think there is such a thing as "catching it early", but I honestly think that's what happened here.
I don't want to get my hopes up, but I am very happy about what is going on right now. We probably will hang on to the insulin, just in case. I do plan on testing him at least twice a week (probably more), to make sure that his results are becoming the norm for him.
Again, I do really appreciate your post and will definitely take everything you said into consideration.
But I do have to trust my vet, since he is the one who is treating Jack. This does not mean that I don't sometimes question his decisions based on what I read here. DH and stressed and stressed over what kind of food to feed the cats and then which brand. Our vet strongly supported Jack being on the Science Diet Rx food for diabetics, and we even purchased a case of wet food and a bag of dry, but then began to really question how that particular food would affect his glucose reading when they were still so high in carbs.
Our vet doesn't have a very high opinion of a lot of the "natural" cat foods or the trendy brands like Wellness, and tried to persuade me to question how qualified these companies are, if they aren't supported by veterinary nutritionists. He even questioned Dr. Pierson's credentials and told me that any vet could start a website like she did, it didn't mean they were right. But I went with my gut and switched all of our kitties to Wellness canned, and I think that had a lot to do with the results we are seeing in Jack right now.
Should Jack's readings become high again and we end up going back on the insulin, I would question our vet's protocol a little more and suggest we try one of the methods you referred to here. But if there is a such thing as catching diabetes early, I think we did in Jack. All of his symptoms come up in the past couple of months. We were on vacation in May for 10 days, and the cats had an unlimited supply of dry kibble - I'm sure that's what might have pushed Jack over the edge. Once we got back, I noticed him acting differently: napping more often, loss of interest in playing, laying down after a few steps, camping out in front of his water bowl, eating all of his dinner right away, and a strong urine smell in the litter box. I thought he might snap out of it, until we weighed him and found that he lost about 2 pounds and decided to take him in. Our vet doesn't think there is such a thing as "catching it early", but I honestly think that's what happened here.
I don't want to get my hopes up, but I am very happy about what is going on right now. We probably will hang on to the insulin, just in case. I do plan on testing him at least twice a week (probably more), to make sure that his results are becoming the norm for him.
Again, I do really appreciate your post and will definitely take everything you said into consideration.
MauiGuppy
Member Since 2011
I think you're on the right track where you should trust your vet...but also verify that his guidance is working for Jack (btw, I love that name for a cat!).
A couple of notes:
- Re: cat food, Fancy Feast Classic and Friskies work just as well if you're budget-conscious. I tried to feed Junior high end brands like Wellness and EVO but he's not into it. I guess his palate is more low rent. Dry, even those designed for diabetics, are still too high in carbs. That's probably why you're seeing Jack do better with wet.
- Your instincts on catching it early is spot on. If you look at page 12 of the Rand study, second paragraph under "Discussion"
You're doing good by raising these questions. For me, all the little things started adding up where my vet kept losing credibility. I really do hope that that won't be the case for you!
And you should be happy -- his numbers look good! He could very well go into remission like this but getting him down to greens might give his pancreas more time to heal before it's put back to work full time.
Get better Jack!
Bonnie
A couple of notes:
- Re: cat food, Fancy Feast Classic and Friskies work just as well if you're budget-conscious. I tried to feed Junior high end brands like Wellness and EVO but he's not into it. I guess his palate is more low rent. Dry, even those designed for diabetics, are still too high in carbs. That's probably why you're seeing Jack do better with wet.
- Your instincts on catching it early is spot on. If you look at page 12 of the Rand study, second paragraph under "Discussion"
You're doing good by raising these questions. For me, all the little things started adding up where my vet kept losing credibility. I really do hope that that won't be the case for you!
And you should be happy -- his numbers look good! He could very well go into remission like this but getting him down to greens might give his pancreas more time to heal before it's put back to work full time.
Get better Jack!
Bonnie
MauiGuppy
Member Since 2011
btw, I missed answering your other question:
As long as it's refrigerated, it should last awhile. I've had mine for 5 months now. There have been a 5-6 times when it wasn't refrigerated (forgot to put it back into the fridge, traveled cross country, etc). So far so good.
As long as it's refrigerated, it should last awhile. I've had mine for 5 months now. There have been a 5-6 times when it wasn't refrigerated (forgot to put it back into the fridge, traveled cross country, etc). So far so good.
KigerKat
Member Since 2011
MauiGuppy said:
Thanks, Bonnie!
I did find that the large, "soup size" cans of Wellness actually cost the same per ounce as Fancy Feast. I wanted to give Friskies a try, but DH was very much sold on Fancy Feast. When I compared the prices, I figured that if we were going to spend $0.20/ounce, we might as well go with something like Wellness. So far, all the KigerKats have been in love with their new diet. We've only tried 3 flavors: Chicken, Turkey, and Turkey & Salmon. We won't be doing the Turkey & Salmon again anytime soon, just because it STANK!! I found that buying the Wellness online can save us even more if we buy more than 2 cases at a time. Once we get their proper "dosage" figured out, we'll start doing that and maybe try a couple of other flavors. PetCo is the only store nearby that sells the big cans and they don't have too much variety in flavor.
And Jack's full name is Jackson Montgomery Walker-Kiger. I guess there was some soap opera character named Jackson Montgomery, but I never watched it - I just liked the way the name sounded. His sister is Phoebe Marie Walker-Kiger and the Bengal is Woodland Maverick Unchained Warrior Kiger. I've always liked to name my pets with people names, but DH named the Bengal and since he's a pure-bred, he has the stupid long name. We just call him Maverick, but it's fun to say his full name when he's in trouble! ;-)
mybuddybinks
Member Since 2010
I love your furbabies names...
and CONGRATULATIONS, JACK!!!!
and CONGRATULATIONS, JACK!!!!
MauiGuppy
Member Since 2011
OMG I love all their names! What a hoot! Jackson Montgomery sounded familiar and you're right -- he's from All My Children. I googled him and the guy has good hair -- if you were in the 80's! Jack is much better looking.
Love Phoebe Marie...and Unchained Warrior? LOL! There has to be a story in there right?
Love Phoebe Marie...and Unchained Warrior? LOL! There has to be a story in there right?
KigerKat
Member Since 2011
MauiGuppy said:
Maverick's mother's name was Unchained Melody and his father's name was Warrior, so we put the two together. He is a little crazy, like right now: he's attacking the pull string on a bag of my husband's, hopping around in circles, making himself poofy and yelling all at the same time. I would try to get it on video, but he's so fast that by the time I run into the next room to get the camera, he'll be asleep.
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