7/30 Morgaine AMPS 192,+6 145,PMPS 128 increased dose

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skybar22

skybar22

Member Since 2010
yesterday

Bringing this over from yesterday's condo
Sienne and Gabby wrote:
I believe that your assessment is correct -- the longer at any dose range, the harder it is to bring numbers down. Morgaine's body will begin to regard a dose range as "normal" the longer she stays in that range. This is the rationale for raising the insulin dose. Given how flat Morgaine's cycles are, if she were my cat I'd be raising her dose.
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I hadn't really considered that it might actually not be good for her to remain at the level she is at but now that you mention it, it makes sense. Her body almost seems to "want" to return to a higher BG no matter what the dose is. I am a bit perplexed at how this is all working for her since her numbers really have not changed much since we started. They drift down a bit but we started at .50 u bid and she is now at 2 u and such a minimal change in her BGs.

Has anyone experienced anything like this with their kitties? no high BGs but very little movement with increases.

I went ahead and increased her dose this AM to 2.25, I didn't want to wait another day for 10 cycles because she went up to 162 last night and was 192 overnight and after yesterday's discussion, I felt it was perfectly safe to increase her.
 
Re: 7/30 Morgaine AMPS 192 increased dose another ?

there are other conditions that might cause that, but i don't think morgaine is to a dose that would suggest it yet, or be worth testing. punkin was diagnosed with acromegaly on june 2nd, which is a non-cancerous tumor on the pituitary gland. the way you suspect it is from increasing insulin needs. Gus, Lanky, Tommy, Guinness and Jazzy also have acro. i'm not suggesting it to you yet, just saying. punkin was at about 7 units for a long time - now he's at 14.5. the key thing is to give them what their body needs. so for now, that's your goal that you should be going toward.

don't underestimate the value of holding the dose while their body settles, though. even though you don't want them to get used to high numbers, you also need to not increase before schedule. just follow the protocol - it's been proven and it works.

there are 2 other conditions that cause higher insulin dose needs (and 2units twice a day is not high, just average) - one is Cushing's and the other in Insulin Antibody (kind of like developing an allergy to insulin). Harley has iaa. i don't think anyone would suggest either of those either - i think doses less than 7u are still in the "might not mean anything unusual" range.
 
Re: 7/30 Morgaine AMPS 192 increased dose another ?

just dropping in to say "Hello!" to you and Morgaine, Rosalie!

celi & her brat
 
Re: 7/30 Morgaine AMPS 192 increased dose another ?

Hi Rosalie:

Remember that when you first raise the dose, you might see higher numbers due to new dose wonkiness (NDW). As Julie said, give her time to settle into the dose and see if it works. Just watch her....2u is not that much yet and she might surprise you when she decides the dose that she needs is perfect. I know you would like to see lower numbers but there are many of us who had to wade through many, many cycles of pink and yellow to get them to start working a dose. Little comfort but still....she's in a better place in blue. Paws crossed!!!
 
Re: 7/30 Morgaine AMPS 192 increased dose another ?

Thanks everyone! I am not too concerned about anything unusual going on, at least not yet. I figure as long as each new dose brings her down a bit more we are soooo close to getting in the normal range. I guess what concerns me is that even without insulin she was always in the blue. Maybe her body thinks that is normal and it is going to take some time and more insulin for her to come down to normal numbers. She probably spent a year in the blue range, under 150, with no movement down and no real need for insulin, according to the vets I consulted. Then her numbers creeped up to around 200+ and I started Lantus. I am hopeful we can get her down to the greens and low blues soon.

Diabetes is such an individualized disease, even in humans and all sorts of influences effect BGs. Morgaine was very upset a couple times as I was struggling to get blood drops from her ears for testing. I am going to try warming them with a rice sock if she will allow it. Its funny how sometimes they bleed so easily and other times nada but we always get there.

The other thought i have had is that Morgaine is a large kitty and she just may need more insulin. I started out so low at .50u bid. So, I am not going to worry too much about other issues just yet and hope that we get some better numbers with these small increases. She is a calico and you know what they say about calicos? They are a little different than the norm. She has always been a little off the beaten path and I have always loved that about my girl and then, of course, she is a CAT! :lol:

What is considered an average dose range for a 15 pound cat?
 
Re: 7/30 Morgaine AMPS 192 increased dose another ?

julie1220 said:
don't underestimate the value of holding the dose while their body settles, though. even though you don't want them to get used to high numbers, you also need to not increase before schedule. just follow the protocol - it's been proven and it works.
Click to expand...
I agree. At such a low dose and in the absence of high stubborn BGs and one of the conditions Julie mentioned, if it were my cat I'd follow the protocol.
 
Re: 7/30 Morgaine AMPS 192 increased dose another ?

there's a formula that maybe someone knows and will mention, but i do know that punkin is about 14 lbs and according to the formula he should've started at about 1.75units BID. but morgaine isn't newly diagnosed, and that does make a difference in where you start a cat - the dose they were on with the previous insulin is considered. the formula is for a newly diagnosed diabetic kitty.

i think just stay with your 2u and follow the step changes according to the protocol - beyond that, it's not worth worrying about.
 
Re: 7/30 Morgaine AMPS 192 increased dose another ?

Morgaine had not been on any insulin until late June when I started her at .50 as per the vet. Prior to that she was diet controlled and stayed under 150 as far I know. She was put on an all canned low carb diet in May of 2010 when she was diagnosed. Her numbers immediately went down and after 2 weeks she was having BGs in the low 100's so I continued to spot check her until May 2011 when things began to change so my understanding is that she is considered a newly diagnosed kitty for the purposes of this protocol and therefore I am wondering if she needed to start with a higher dose than .50. I probably would have resisted doing that anyway since I thought she just needed a "little" insulin to get back down to normal.

The other issue that may be influencing her BGs is the high triglycerides which were 1600 fasting. She has been on a lower fat diet with 10% carbs and I will have some blood work done soon to check those levels again. I posted an article a couple of days ago that referenced high triglycerides as a cause of insulin resistance. In any case, she doesn't seem to be too resistant and thank God her numbers are not higher. I would love to go back to that 2% carb diet I had her on because that may also influence her BGs, but she really needs the lower fat.

When it comes to this disease, I am all for tight control, knowing what I know and having the human complications from my early life of no glucometers to ever know what my BGs were. We just had to wing it in those early days and used urine tests to get some idea but a very poor idea of what was happening. Talk about shooting blind. Even all these years later, some vets do not encourage home testing for cats and dogs. I can't imagine not doing this for Morgaine.

This board is such a wonderful place for all who want to treat their FD cats with tight control. I was so happy to find you all last year when Morgaine was first diagnosed and now, with her needing insulin, I just can't tell you how relieved i am to not be doing this on my own. I can't afford what the vet wants me to do which is constanf blood work, fructosamines, and now an ultra sound because she is concerned about her pancreas with the high lipids. Her pancreas tested normal and Morgaine remains symptom free for pancreatitis. In fact, Morgaine's only symptoms are those of FD.
 
Re: 7/30 Morgaine AMPS 192 increased dose another ?

hi rosalie. morgaine's numbers aren't bad at all. i'm glad you've increased the dose. hope you'll see the new dose pulling the entire range down soon.
good luck with the increase!
 
Re: 7/30 Morgaine AMPS 192 increased dose another ?

Thanks Jill. I felt really okay about upping her dose a bit after only 8 cycles because I saw the creeping up of numbers again.

Alex looks like she could be Morgaine's relative!

I just took a look at Alex's SS and see how you are managing her to keep her in the normal range. It is a fine specimen of tight control and worth studying further.
 
Just want to comment on Morgaine's slow and steady weight loss. She is losing about an ounce per week and has lost a total of 5 oz since we changed her diet. I think my girl does everything slow and steady. Not bad numbers today with a dose increase. They didn't go too wonky on us. Paws crossed that they will come down below where they were on the 2 u bid. she is at 2.25 now.
 
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