7/3 Harley PMPS 312

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Harley and Pattie

Harley and Pattie

Member Since 2010
7/3 Not a good night for Harley. +11/397. I feel like he is in a vicious circle here. It almost seems like chronic rebound (or that is what my vet would call it). He goes high, I give R, he goes low (and I don’t catch it), bounces and all I see it the high number which I react to with more R. I do better during the day with the R b...ecause I can test more often. Darn, I just like to sleep too much at night.

Today, I am going to go with the straight 4.5u lantus and no R. I have only 1 week until vacation and he goes to the U for boarding. He will come back on a low dose anyway because he does not eat.

Any suggestions. I do feel the 4.5u Is the way to go right now.

Pattie
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Re: 7/3 Harley AMPD 449

Ewwww - AMPS 449. :-x :-x I did not give any R but I now feel like I should. That is terribly high. I am going to wait 1 hour and if he is still in the 400's, I am going to give .5u R.

Have a good day.

Pattie
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449

I understand how you feel. J.D. had lots of reds when we were on vacation. One night I gave too much R or at the wrong time (it's so hard to judge sometimes how much and when). I only gave him 0.10 and he came down fast, too fast, which only set up a 508 for the morning PS. I try to give enough R to bring J.D. down about 150 points. On that night he dived down 100 points per hour from +1 through +3 (that's 300 points in 3 hours) and it just set up the high AMPS.
Maybe give less R? Bounces are not what you need. That's just my thoughts.
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449

Thank Dyana. Last night Harley did come down very fast with the R. I am going to wait 30 minutes and see what he is. I think the I will be giving R but maybe <.25U. I hate to see him so high.

Are you still on vacation. Hope it is fun.


Pattie
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449

Tested and Harley was still in the 400's. Tested again 30 minutes later and he is 380. I did not give any R but will see what he does with the 4.5u.

Pattie
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449

I think that's smart. I was going to tell you to wait 2 hours (instead of 1 hour) to see where he is.
Sometimes, even though I hate the high number, I just don't want to give the R because I don't want to set up a bouncing cycle. Those times, if I really hate the high number and J.D.'s been in the high numbers for awhile, I'll try 0.0 or maybe 0.05, just a little to take the edge off. I can always give more after +6 (or nadir) if needed.

Keep coming down, nice and easy, Harley.
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449, +1/380 old pen?

I do not know how old the pen is that I am using. I forgot to mark it on the ss. It might be over a month. I think I will start a new pen tonight and see what difference it makes.

Would it benefit me to do a curve but test every hour (only up to +9 and then it picnic time).

Pattie
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449, +1/380 old pen?

Harley and Pattie said:
I do not know how old the pen is that I am using. I forgot to mark it on the ss. It might be over a month. I think I will start a new pen tonight and see what difference it makes.

Would it benefit me to do a curve but test every hour (only up to +9 and then it picnic time).

Pattie
Click to expand...

That's a nice drop from AMPS to +1.

I guess today, if you have the time and the strips, would be good. But, if he evens out for hours on end, you could change to every two hours.
You didn't mean a curve every hour tonight, did you?
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449, +1/380 old pen?

I'm sorry, I just remembered you upped his dose today. Yes, I'd test often today, if it were me.
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449, +1/380 old pen?

I always think more data is good.

That said, I have a couple of thoughts. My experience with R is through observation. It looks to me like you may be giving too much R. My understanding is that it should lower numbers enough that the Lantus can grab on. When you see a 100 point drop per hour like on 6/30, it may mean that using 0.1u R vs. 0.25u may be better. Libby has worked with some of the beans with acro-kitties to develop a sliding scale for R. It may be something you want to consider.

I also think you may want to consider not letting Harley sit in very low numbers for as long as you do (e.g., 6/14). Keeping Harley in the 50 - 60 range is far better than in the 40s.
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449, +1/380 old pen?

Thank you Sienne. I will contact Libby and ask about the sliding scale. I have just been guessing as to what to give for the R.

Have a good day.

Pattie
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449, +1/380 old pen?

Ohhhhh ! (((((((Pattie)))))))

I'm glad you upped the Lantus. It may take more than 1 cycle to see what it does. With BK I would start bracing myself at the 3rd cycle, but ECID. I'm also glad you skipped the R.

R is tricky - a double edged sword. Like Dyana pointed out, timing can play a part, and for each cat differ .What kind of nadir does he have? Take a look on BKs ss at July 2008. For a while I was regularly shooting R at mid cycle. (anyone else looking at that - please realize that BK is IAA and was a High Dose kitty. He was very closely monitored by myself and the nightwatchman, and we were very closely monitored by the wonderful FD/LL folks!)

I didn't realize you didn't have a sliding scale..it's important.
I had many during BKs time on the upper floors...they changed as the picture changed (example -his response to R in May 2009 was way different than July 2008 and it was a step by step process in between). I think I may have lost them in a hard drive crash on my TBP puter....I'll see if I can locate one on the old board.
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449, +1/380 old pen?

Thanks Sandy. I also PM's Libby to ask her if she knew where the sliding scale was. I think that would be helpful.

Pattie
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449, +1/380 old pen?

I remember Carolyn (Carolyn and Leo) having Leos sliding scale on the 2nd tab of his ss. (I remember thinking that was a great idea, and that I should do that - however I never got around to it) I believe there's a master list of links to LL kitties spreadsheets. . . I'm not sure who has it these days. . .Libby may know.

Hang in there !
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449, +1/380 old pen?

True - every kittie is different but it might give an idea of where to go...I think I have been giving too much R.

Pattie
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449, +1/380 old pen?

Hi Pattie,

An R scale is going to be different for every cat, and in fact it will be different for the SAME cat at different times in their treatment. I'm thinking that because Harley's overall insulin requirements have diminished so much, it makes sense that his R requirements would have diminished too. A dose of R that might have been fine for him before might be too much now.

Here is a post that I refer to all the time when I'm helping someone start using R (scroll to the bottom of this thread):
http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... 22,1797264

Don't use those doses though - remember that Jojo's post here is for Buckwheat, and acro cat. Harley's R doses won't be nearly that much.

KT/Buckwheat also has some helpful tabs on her spreadsheet:
Buckwheat's R scales over time
Other cats' R scales

For Harley at this stage in the game, you might even want to start over, the way Jojo suggests in her post, to get an idea of how Harley responds to different doses of R right now. Because Harley clears his bounces so hard, you also want to be sure you are giving R right at the beginning of a bounce. If you give R at a time when the bounce might be clearing naturally anyway, you might set him up for a huge fast drop. It will take some time to build a strategy, but hopefully this will help.
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449, +1/380 old pen?

I am careful when I read about a dose for another cat. I know Harley might respond very differently if I were to do the same as the dose listed for a different cat. I do want to gather information so then I can better make a decision for him. Thank you. Jojo was the first person that suggested R for Harley when he was first diagnosed.

Pattie
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449, +1/380 old pen?

Hi Pattie and Harley,
Just thought I'd peak in here and send a warm hello - I love learning what all the others have to say. I hope that's ok. I'm always in awe! HOping Harley's numbers can improve today!

xxx
patti
 
Re: 7/3 Harley AMPS 449, +1/380 old pen?

Examples and instructions - beautiful!
(and bookmarked)

I know it's a bit of up front work but it is key -you'll feel better with it.
 
Harley is ending his day pink - but a low pink. I forgot to change pens so will start the new one tomorrow. did a curve and I think got some good information from it.

pattie
 
you know...i gotta be honest...

I feel like a total slacker when i see how hard some of you have to work with your kitties.

utmost admiration for you!!

celi
 
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