7/3 FRED - No Shot

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Kathleen and Fred

Kathleen and Fred

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Please take a look at Fred's numbers. I've been a little worried that he might go Hypo when I'm not home - with low numbers during mid cycle. So, this morning I made the decision NOT to shoot.

I'm not clear from previous posts when you are supposed to try going OTJ, but there it is! I would like your advice on how much and when to shoot going forward, based on his recent numbers. I realize that this OTJ thing is a gradual process, but I think we're on the edge of getting there and I want to do it right.

I'll be out of town from July 31-Aug 3 when a neighbor can come in to feed and shoot him, so that might be another factor in deciding how to bring him off. I'd rather have high numbers than low while I'm away.

Would appreciate the advice of those with experience in this area.

Thanks,
 
My phone is not cooperating and won't let me see the spreadsheet.
How low?
How much are you giving?
Are you using U-40 syringes or U-100 syringes with a conversion chart?
If he gets below 50 mg/dL, he earns a decrease.

Drop method of dosing:
Fill a U-100 syringe to 0.5 units using colored liquid (so you can see!)
Carefully squeeze out equal sized drops.
Repeat until you can get the same number of equal sized doses each time.
Now, start reducing a 0.5 unit dose by 1 drop, then 2 drops, ect, so long as the nadirs keep dropping.
 
I'm not sure what you are asking for or telling me. I'll wait until you can see Fred's chart so we can be on the same page. Just let me know when you see it and I'll keep posting to his chart daily.

Thanks
 
f you are already shooting 0.2 units by using a U-100 syringe and conversion chart, you can use the drop method to reduce the dose further by drops OR you can try an off the juice trial.

It really looks like he's trying to go off the juice. Want to give it a shot? (no pun intended)
 
I'd like to try OTJ but not sure how to do it other than your suggestion to do smaller and smaller doses. or do you think I should just test and not shoot for a few cycles. BTW, I use U-100s wih the conversion chart.

What is a non-sugar cat's BG range? My civie, Bella, was 46 the oher day.
 
Hi,
I agree with BJ; it really looks like Fred is trying to go OTJ.

Kathleen and Fred said:
I'd like to try OTJ but not sure how to do it other than your suggestion to do smaller and smaller doses. or do you think I should just test and not shoot for a few cycles.
Click to expand...
It looks to me like you could try not giving insulin, and see if Fred holds in lower numbers on his own.

What is your feeding schedule at the moment?
For a 'pancreas-in-training' it's helpful to have mini meals or snacks throughout the day. That way the pancreas gets something to do without being overwhelmed at any one time. (You may well find that a little snack drops the blood glucose.)

You can still test morning and evening (if not getting insulin these would be 'AMBG and 'PMBG' tests, rather than 'AMPS' and 'PMPS'.)
If his blood glucose creeps up you could consider giving a teensy smidge of insulin if he needs it and if you can monitor him.
If he manages to hold in normal numbers for 14 days we'd say he's in remission... nailbite_smile

Kathleen and Fred said:
What is a non-sugar cat's BG range? My civie, Bella, was 46 the oher day.
Click to expand...
The normal BG range for a cat is approximately (depending on the source where the info comes from) 49 - 130. Some cats run a smidge higher or lower than that. And from what I've seen, most cats would be somewhere in the middle of that range for much of the time. (My civvies have tested between 47 and 81).

Eliz
 
Kathleen and Fred said:
I'd like to try OTJ but not sure how to do it other than your suggestion to do smaller and smaller doses. or do you think I should just test and not shoot for a few cycles. BTW, I use U-100s wih the conversion chart.

What is a non-sugar cat's BG range? My civie, Bella, was 46 the oher day.
Click to expand...

Normal glucose is roughly 40 -120.
You can
1) chase numbers - if over 150, shoot - this is similar to what Deb & Lucien are doing, albeit at higher numbers.
2) do drop reductions off the 0.2 units
3) go cold turkey

Up to you, your comfor zone, and your schedule.
 
My feeding schedule for Fred had been adjusted over the last month or so. Originally, I was feeding about 2-3 oz every 3-4 hours. His numbers were high. I started feeding him (exclusively Sheba, beef, chicken or salmon) 3 oz at 7am, 1 oz about 1pm; 3 oz at 7pm; 1 oz about 1am. On this regimen Fred has lowered his numbers considerably. When I leave this pattern, he goes up. A good example is today when I couldn't get home for the 1pm snack. He got is snack at 5pm, which is two hrs before PMPS, but you can see his numbers went up. I think my current schedule is working the best.

I'll have to wait until he comes back around 120, but I'm willing to try "cold turkey" as long as he's in that 40-120 range. If he goes up, like tonight, do I understand you are suggesting just little shot, like .2, or just wait it out?

My neighbor will not be able to test him, so we'll either have to decide to have him OTJ by July 31st, or come up with a dose of insulin that will be safe for the 4 days I'm away. She has learned to shoot him, but not test him. That means we have 27 days to come up with a plan!! No pressure!

For clarification, do most people NOT shoot when their sugar cats are between 40-120? Any smaller doses than .2 can be hard to see on my u-100 (conversion used) needle. I could try to go lower, but it would be a guess.

This end of things seems just as hard as the days he was up near 400!! Yet, Fred's happy as a lark - out scouting for chipmunks as I write!

Thanks,
 
Some folks over on Lantus/Levemir doing Tight Regulation will shoot when the pre-test is below 100, however they have tons of data to show that 1) the cat will go up and 2) the dose being used will control it to stay in near normal numbers.

With Fred, I'd suggest going with the drop method for now, as that is something you can teach her. The other things that can help her assess Fred are in my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools - water drunk and amount of wet litter, for example. If Fred is indoors, and nothing has changed, the water consumption should remain stable. Likewise, the amount of urine in the litter box should remain stable. If you start measuring that now, there will be reference values for comparison. Not as good as glucose testing, but better than nothing. Also, the breath test - if his breath smells sweet or like nail polish remover, get to vet asap as that could be ketones. A note at your vet's office authorizing her to bring him in for care may be prudent, just in case.
 
Hi, Kathleen!

You have worked long &, I'm sure, incredibly hard to bring Fred to this point. Congratulations!

In my opinion, there is no safe way to inject insulin without first testing the BGs during the 4 days you'll be away. Realizing that you have a number of weeks before the final decision and that you'll be getting interim advice, I still want to repeat: do not permit your neighbor to shoot without a BG test. Is there a forum member nearby who could do that? Otherwise, don't let her inject: Fred will be safer and both you and your neighbor will have more peace of mind than if she injected blindly.

My Pudge went into first remission off ProZinc at 1 unit & his second after a very brief period of Levemir (switched due to shortage of ProZinc) at barely one drop of Levemir. I realize the two insulin function differently, but don't want to think of what could have happened if I injected blindly when his BG stood at 46. It's particularly iffy, as you and others have noted, when a kitty is so close to remission: when the pancreas is awake. Many members do believe that taking the dosage as low as possible makes the remission stronger. Probably true, but one also does what one's life circumstances dictate.

Best wishes,
Sophie
 
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