7/26 tony pmps 366

Tony'sMomJodi

Tony'sMomJodi

Member Since 2021
Hello all, I'm currently a bit in the dark about dosing info. My vet said to give Tony 1 unit every 12 hours, and only to test his glucose at +2. I now know this is wrong wrong wrong and I test before shooting every time, from the bits of info I've found I know if his sugar is lower, I need to give less insulin.. what I can't figure out is how much less? I've been giving 1 unit if glucose is over 350ish, half a unit if between 225 and 300 and a token dose if 175-225. (all these doses are provided he eats well.. I give a lower dose if he doesn't eat as much) I will attach his spreadsheet at the bottom, and I'm planning to do a glucose curve on my next day off.

That being said, I need to transition to a human meter, alphatrak test strips are way too expensive. How do I know what to dose him at based on a human meter? Im super nervous to intepret the numbers incorrectly and send him into a hypo or not give enough insulin. Thank you so much
Jodi
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...7WkASU-HLbRVNOD99jyTrs1YQ/edit#gid=1182885903
 
Hi Jodi,

Here's your last post for continuity: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/wobbly-doesnt-want-to-eat.249267/#post-2812265

Firstly, we don't give different doses based on preshot test numbers, we base dosing on how LOW a cat goes, not how high. Lantus curve creates a curve in the shape of a smile. The two upper ends of the smile/curve are the preshot numbers, and the numbers in the middle are generally lower. Those are the numbers we need to look at to help with dosing because we don't want to give the cat too much insulin and cause hypoglycemia. This is why @Chris & China (GA) asked you to take more mid-cycle tests.

Secondly, if you're switching to a human meter, you want to watch out for numbers that go below 50 (right now with the AlphaTrak you're looking for numbers below 68 as your "take action" number). Below that is the point at which we intercede with high carb foods to prevent it from going any lower.

Please read all of the stickies at the top of the forum list: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-basaglar-glargine-and-levemir-detemir.9/. This is one sticky you should pay particular attention to: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/the-basics-new-to-the-group-start-here.18139/

It's a lot of information to take in, but we're here if you have more questions.
 
Welcome Jodi and Toni. I see your vet has you giving insulin on a sliding scale. Out of curiosity is it based upon the +2 since he said only to test at +2 or is it the bg before you give the insulin. Lantus onset’s around +2 so if based upon that it would already be starting to work. Either way our dosing methods are based upon how low a dose takes your cat. Lantus likes consistency as it’s a depot insulin. So constantly changing the dose makes no sense. Please read the links given to you by Katherine to see if you want to try following one of our methods.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Welcome Jodi and Toni. I see your vet has you giving insulin on a sliding scale. Out of curiosity is it based upon the +2 since he said only to test at +2 or is it the bg before you give the insulin. Lantus onset’s around +2 so if based upon that it would already be starting to work. Either way our dosing methods are based upon how low a dose takes your cat. Lantus likes consistency as it’s a depot insulin. So constantly changing the dose makes no sense. Please read the links given to you by Katherine to see if you want to try following one of our methods.
Click to expand...

She said to test only two hours after shooting insulin and not before at all, that was when he was first diagnosed and she hasnt sent me the paperwork for the glucose curve yet. The numbers on his spreadsheet are the ones ive been getting on his test before insulin. The sliding scale actually came from the emergency vet i had him at. He had stopped eating, was falling over like a drunk and was lethargic. It turns out, it was an ear infection that ended up taking 4 vet visits and 3 weeks to diagnose, hes on ear drops now and is much improved on that. If his sugar is low pre shot (say the 153 he was at a few nights ago) wouldn't giving a full unit possibly put him in hypo? Ive read some posts on the facebook group that say when a cat is under 200 to only give a reduced dose. Should I be giving him a full unit even if its already that low? Ive seen a full unit drop him 300 pts and it scares me so bad. Thats where I get confused :( I did read the links given by Katherine, I'll re read them again. I would like to try the start low go slow. Those low numbers I've seen from Tonys pre shot test give me hope for regulation but scare me for a hypo event. Thank you for the help
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
Hi Jodi,

Here's your last post for continuity: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/wobbly-doesnt-want-to-eat.249267/#post-2812265

Firstly, we don't give different doses based on preshot test numbers, we base dosing on how LOW a cat goes, not how high. Lantus curve creates a curve in the shape of a smile. The two upper ends of the smile/curve are the preshot numbers, and the numbers in the middle are generally lower. Those are the numbers we need to look at to help with dosing because we don't want to give the cat too much insulin and cause hypoglycemia. This is why @Chris & China (GA) asked you to take more mid-cycle tests.

Secondly, if you're switching to a human meter, you want to watch out for numbers that go below 50 (right now with the AlphaTrak you're looking for numbers below 68 as your "take action" number). Below that is the point at which we intercede with high carb foods to prevent it from going any lower.

Please read all of the stickies at the top of the forum list: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-basaglar-glargine-and-levemir-detemir.9/. This is one sticky you should pay particular attention to: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/the-basics-new-to-the-group-start-here.18139/

It's a lot of information to take in, but we're here if you have more questions.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the links, I did read them but I'll read them again tomorrow when Im not as tired. I asked tiffmaxee as well, but if his pre shot number is low (128 was the one that really threw me for a loop) couldnt a full unit dose put him into a hypo even if he eats since hes starting at a lower number? Thank you for the info I really appreciate it!
 
It's going to be difficult to interpret the data that. you have given the changes in dose. Because Lantus is a depot type of insulin, any change in the dose amount needs at least 3 days/6 cycles to stabilize. Lantus also likes consistency. This is why using a sliding scale isn't a good strategy for this kind of insulin. The ER vet was giving you instructions that are more appropriate for an insulin like Prozinc.

All of that said, when you're more rested, take a look at the dosing methods sticky. We use two approaches -- Tight Regulation (TR) and Start Low Go Slow (SLGS). The methods differ with regard to how quickly you evaluate and/or change the dose, the "take action" number that Katherine referred to, and a few other parameters.

I'd also encourage you to not always follow some of the advice on the FB page. You have no way to gauge the experience of the people posting nor do you know what their experience is with Lantus. Many of the people posting use a different insulin and each insulin has it's own quirks. One size does not fit all (just like what you're learning about the advice from the ER vet) which is why dosing advice is not permitted on FB.
 
Please join us on the lantus forum and read some of the condos there. It sounds like at this time SLGS will be the method you will feel most comfortably follow. That can change at any point but will get you used to how lantus works when you follow a method. Look at spreadsheets of others following SLGS as it will help you see what happens and how lower numbers are handled. I hope to see you there. Is the DM dry or canned? If dry the only method of ours to follow is SLGS.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Please join us on the lantus forum and read some of the condos there. It sounds like at this time SLGS will be the method you will feel most comfortably follow. That can change at any point but will get you used to how lantus works when you follow a method. Look at spreadsheets of others following SLGS as it will help you see what happens and how lower numbers are handled. I hope to see you there. Is the DM dry or canned? If dry the only method of ours to follow is SLGS.
Click to expand...
I'll look up that forum and the spread sheets you mentioned, thank you. The DM is dry, Ive been getting him to eat more low carb canned, but he wont actually eat a full meal of it, he would rather eat a tiny bit of the canned then go on a hunger strike until I give him kibble. Ill hold him at the one unit then do his curve this Saturday and post the results.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
It's going to be difficult to interpret the data that. you have given the changes in dose. Because Lantus is a depot type of insulin, any change in the dose amount needs at least 3 days/6 cycles to stabilize. Lantus also likes consistency. This is why using a sliding scale isn't a good strategy for this kind of insulin. The ER vet was giving you instructions that are more appropriate for an insulin like Prozinc.

All of that said, when you're more rested, take a look at the dosing methods sticky. We use two approaches -- Tight Regulation (TR) and Start Low Go Slow (SLGS). The methods differ with regard to how quickly you evaluate and/or change the dose, the "take action" number that Katherine referred to, and a few other parameters.

I'd also encourage you to not always follow some of the advice on the FB page. You have no way to gauge the experience of the people posting nor do you know what their experience is with Lantus. Many of the people posting use a different insulin and each insulin has it's own quirks. One size does not fit all (just like what you're learning about the advice from the ER vet) which is why dosing advice is not permitted on FB.
Click to expand...
I will hold him at the one unit and do his curve this Saturday, and reevaluate the SLGS dosing method, thank you. I will also take the facebook advice with a grain of salt :)
 
tiffmaxee said:
Please join us on the lantus forum and read some of the condos there. It sounds like at this time SLGS will be the method you will feel most comfortably follow. That can change at any point but will get you used to how lantus works when you follow a method. Look at spreadsheets of others following SLGS as it will help you see what happens and how lower numbers are handled. I hope to see you there. Is the DM dry or canned? If dry the only method of ours to follow is SLGS.
Click to expand...

Also, is there a place to find where people are following the SLGS system and how they are handling low numbers or possibly somewhere to search for those posts? I'm still trying to figure out how to navigate the forums. Thank you
 
As long as he’s eating dry you would follow SLGS if you follow our method. Tbere are other lower carb dry foods. DM is very high carb. Two are Dr. Elsey’s and Young Again. We have found any dry food reacts to increase bg for most cats but those two are much lower than DM. have you tried any of the fancy feast pates? It’s low carb and kitty crack for many cats. Worth a try although some cats are dry food junkies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top