7/26, Susie, 241 AMPS, 247 @+2, 223 @+3. 205 @+6

Summer and Susie (GA)

Member Since 2020
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/7-25-susie-117-pmps-118-1-97-2-79-3-87-4.250346/

Thanks to all for the information provided to me yesterday. It is a lot to absorb. Will look into the proteinuria issue but money is tight for me and I can't afford another vet visit at this time.

I'm going to hold Susie's dose for now. I was actually pleased with most of her numbers. I've always wanted low blues and high greens.

I'm also going to look into finding a food with less phosphorous. I see the phosphorous amounts listed on the Cat Food - Nutritional Composition List. What is a good level of phosphorous, per can of cat food, for a cat with a risk for ckd. Is there a range of numbers I should be looking for?
 
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/7-25-susie-117-pmps-118-1-97-2-79-3-87-4.250346/

Thanks to all for the information provided to me yesterday. It is a lot to absorb. Will look into the proteinuria issue but money is tight for me and I can't afford another vet visit at this time.

I'm going to hold Susie's dose for now. I was actually pleased with most of her numbers. I've always wanted low blues and high greens.

I'm also going to look into finding a food with less phosphorous. I see the phosphorous amounts listed on the Cat Food - Nutritional Composition List. What is a good level of phosphorous, per can of cat food, for a cat with a risk for ckd. Is there a range of numbers I should be looking for?

The ckd website recommends under 1% which a lot of the Weruva foods are, but my ckd/pancreatitis Koda will NOT eat any wet foods other than FF pate. Quite a few people also feed Tiki Cat. I'm actually shocked that this last blood test Koda's kidney values actually improved. The only thing that has changed is that I've been feeding him MORE FF (I always add a little warm water) and LESS kibble. He does not have high phosphorous in his bloodwork, so I'm not concerned about trying to force a food change. Especially with the improvement.
 
Yes, stress from going to the vet does increase BP. I don't understand your question about how do you know its high on a normal basis?

Yes, stress from going to the vet does increase BP. I don't understand your question about how do you know its high on a normal basis?

Sorry Summer. Not sure why that posted on this thread. I was reading thru all your posts yesterday and someone mentioned having BP checked. I replied, but... no idea how it got on this thread. lol
 
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/7-25-susie-117-pmps-118-1-97-2-79-3-87-4.250346/

Thanks to all for the information provided to me yesterday. It is a lot to absorb. Will look into the proteinuria issue but money is tight for me and I can't afford another vet visit at this time.

I'm going to hold Susie's dose for now. I was actually pleased with most of her numbers. I've always wanted low blues and high greens.

I'm also going to look into finding a food with less phosphorous. I see the phosphorous amounts listed on the Cat Food - Nutritional Composition List. What is a good level of phosphorous, per can of cat food, for a cat with a risk for ckd. Is there a range of numbers I should be looking for?
I remember reading somewhere on Dr. Lisa’s site that phosphorus should be under 300 mg/100kcals, but for the life of me, can’t actually find the quote. I know I saved her chart and filtered down to that level (my other cat has past history of crystals) to see what foods might qualify.
 
Yes, stress from going to the vet does increase BP. I don't understand your question about how do you know its high on a normal basis?
That’s okay. I was the one who recommended that they check BP. Stress can elevate BP although usually no more than 20 points - so that can be taken into account— depending on the stress level of the cat (Susie is like a queen at the vet so she doesn’t seem to stress at all.) Several measurements should be taken and an average of those would give you the reading. If the cat’s BP is consistently over 160 (systolic) then he/she is hypertensive and treatment should be started. My bet takes the BP measurements first before anything else has been done to the cat. If you can be with your cat, that can help. I also have a home blood pressure monitor unit for my cats that is reasonably accurate when compared to the vet, although taking BP can be tricky and needs to be done in exactly the same way every time (where you place the cuff, how you wrap the cuff, position of the cat, etc.). I would not use it as a substitute for the vet getting BP readings. Diabetic cats (as well as hyperthyroid cats and those with heart disease and kidney disease) are at risk for high blood pressure.
 
The ckd website recommends under 1% which a lot of the Weruva foods are, but my ckd/pancreatitis Koda will NOT eat any wet foods other than FF pate. Quite a few people also feed Tiki Cat. I'm actually shocked that this last blood test Koda's kidney values actually improved. The only thing that has changed is that I've been feeding him MORE FF (I always add a little warm water) and LESS kibble. He does not have high phosphorous in his bloodwork, so I'm not concerned about trying to force a food change. Especially with the improvement.
That is a good point. Susie doesn't have high phosphorous in her blood work either. It actually came down a touch from her April labs. Seems if I was going to be worried about too much phosphorous in her food then her blood work would reflect a higher amount or at least a trend upward. I feel stupid for not thinking to look at that. I guess the attention was on the creatinine. It probably would not hurt if I could find a lower phosphorus food. Thanks, Heather.
 
I remember reading somewhere on Dr. Lisa’s site that phosphorus should be under 300 mg/100kcals, but for the life of me, can’t actually find the quote. I know I saved her chart and filtered down to that level (my other cat has past history of crystals) to see what foods might qualify.
Thanks, Andrea. That is what I wanted to know. Maybe someone will come along and confirm those numbers for us.
 
That’s okay. I was the one who recommended that they check BP. Stress can elevate BP although usually no more than 20 points - so that can be taken into account— depending on the stress level of the cat (Susie is like a queen at the vet so she doesn’t seem to stress at all.) Several measurements should be taken and an average of those would give you the reading. If the cat’s BP is consistently over 160 (systolic) then he/she is hypertensive and treatment should be started. My bet takes the BP measurements first before anything else has been done to the cat. If you can be with your cat, that can help. I also have a home blood pressure monitor unit for my cats that is reasonably accurate when compared to the vet, although taking BP can be tricky and needs to be done in exactly the same way every time (where you place the cuff, how you wrap the cuff, position of the cat, etc.). I would not use it as a substitute for the vet getting BP readings. Diabetic cats (as well as hyperthyroid cats and those with heart disease and kidney disease) are at risk for high blood pressure.
I think it is a good idea to ask the vet to check whenever the cat visits the vet. Wonder how much they charge for that??? :eek::eek:
 
That is a good point. Susie doesn't have high phosphorous in her blood work either. It actually came down a touch from her April labs. Seems if I was going to be worried about too much phosphorous in her food then her blood work would reflect a higher amount or at least a trend upward. I feel stupid for not thinking to look at that. I guess the attention was on the creatinine. It probably would not hurt if I could find a lower phosphorus food. Thanks, Heather.
Dr. Lisa’s site has a lot of info on phosphorus and kidneys. Her food charts, though, are not up to date and don’t include a lot of the newer foods.
 
Summer if you ever need low phosphorus foods in the future

Found this when I did a search in the search box
Posted by one of our members
For kitties with kidney problems



. First number is carb percentage, second is mgs of phosphorus/100 cals, all less than 10% carb and less than 250 mg phos:

Weruva Truluxe Steak Frites can 6% 118
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen La Isla Bonita can 3% 166
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Meowiss Bueller pouch 7% 174
Weruva Truluxe Glam 'N Punk can 0.6% 180
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Fowl Ball can 4% 180
Weruva Classic Pates Jeopurrdy Licious pouch 4% 187
Weruva Classic Pates Family Food pouch 0% 191
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Cattyshack pouch 9% 211
BFF PLAY Tuna & Salmon Shhh... pouch 3% 223
BFF PLAY Tuna & Turkey Totes! pouch 2% 226
BFF PLAY Tuna & Chicken Chill Out pouch 2% 226
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Cat to the Future pouch 8% 235
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates The Breakfast Cat pouch 9.7% 235
Weruva Classic Pates Meal of Fortune pouch 8% 236
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Lamburgini can 8% 236
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Double Dip can 8% 248
 
Susie is coming down :cool: I think when you consider increases, you have to see how low the nadirs are in the preceding days. Do not look at the highs. They mean nothing. I do think 2u is good for Susie if you want regulation, not remission. :)

It was very informative reading your yesterday's condo!! I wish I knew some of that info for my kitties. I love how members give each other information and support. That's why I am still around.
 
Summer if you ever need low phosphorus foods in the future

Found this when I did a search in the search box
Posted by one of our members
For kitties with kidney problems



. First number is carb percentage, second is mgs of phosphorus/100 cals, all less than 10% carb and less than 250 mg phos:

Weruva Truluxe Steak Frites can 6% 118
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen La Isla Bonita can 3% 166
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Meowiss Bueller pouch 7% 174
Weruva Truluxe Glam 'N Punk can 0.6% 180
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Fowl Ball can 4% 180
Weruva Classic Pates Jeopurrdy Licious pouch 4% 187
Weruva Classic Pates Family Food pouch 0% 191
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Cattyshack pouch 9% 211
BFF PLAY Tuna & Salmon Shhh... pouch 3% 223
BFF PLAY Tuna & Turkey Totes! pouch 2% 226
BFF PLAY Tuna & Chicken Chill Out pouch 2% 226
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Cat to the Future pouch 8% 235
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates The Breakfast Cat pouch 9.7% 235
Weruva Classic Pates Meal of Fortune pouch 8% 236
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Lamburgini can 8% 236
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Double Dip can 8% 248
Excellent information, Diane. Thanks a million. Heather brought up a good point with me earlier. If I needed to watch the phosphorus content in Susie's food then wouldn't it make sense that her phosphorus blood test should be high/er? Susie's is in the normal range and actually came down just a touch since her April labs. I'm sure it couldn't hurt to find a food with a lower phosphorus count. Thanks, again.
 
Susie is coming down :cool: I think when you consider increases, you have to see how low the nadirs are in the preceding days. Do not look at the highs. They mean nothing. I do think 2u is good for Susie if you want regulation, not remission. :)

It was very informative reading your yesterday's condo!! I wish I knew some of that info for my kitties. I love how members give each other information and support. That's why I am still around.
Hi Mandy. I don't think Summer will mind if I tell you on her condo that I am so sorry about your Rex passing away. What a heartbreak. And I see you've had two losses of fur babies within about a six month period of time. My family did too. We lost one in January and one in June. My Darcy passed one month ago today... on June 26. Your Rex was so gorgeous.
 
Hi Mandy. I don't think Summer will mind if I tell you on her condo that I am so sorry about your Rex passing away. What a heartbreak. And I see you've had two losses of fur babies within about a six month period of time. My family did too. We lost one in January and one in June. My Darcy passed one month ago today... on June 26. Your Rex was so gorgeous.
I'm sorry to hear about your Darcy. I didn't realize. I'm glad you are sticking around. Beans with acro knowledge are very valuable to have on the board. :bighug:
 
Susie is coming down :cool: I think when you consider increases, you have to see how low the nadirs are in the preceding days. Do not look at the highs. They mean nothing. I do think 2u is good for Susie if you want regulation, not remission. :)

It was very informative reading your yesterday's condo!! I wish I knew some of that info for my kitties. I love how members give each other information and support. That's why I am still around.
I don't know what I would do without the fine folks on this site who continue to support and advise me. You included, Mandy :smuggrin:
 
I remember reading somewhere on Dr. Lisa’s site that phosphorus should be under 300 mg/100kcals, but for the life of me, can’t actually find the quote. I know I saved her chart and filtered down to that level (my other cat has past history of crystals) to see what foods might qualify.
Phosphorus should be under 200 mgP/100 kcal or 1.00% for a CKD cat. Personally, for my healthy cats that are not kittens, I keep the P below that in their balanced raw diet.
 
Phosphorus should be under 200 mgP/100 kcal or 1.00% for a CKD cat. Personally, for my healthy cats that are not kittens, I keep the P below that in their balanced raw diet.
Thanks, Marje. I'm glad you responded because I want to ask you a question. If Susie was getting too much phosphorus in her food wouldn't that be reflected in her phosphorus count in her blood test. She has had normal numbers since December and, in fact, actually dropped a little since her April labs.
 
Phosphorus should be under 200 mgP/100 kcal or 1.00% for a CKD cat. Personally, for my healthy cats that are not kittens, I keep the P below that in their balanced raw diet.
Also, there are some products on the Internet that say they can lower the PH of a cats urine. Are you familiar with anything that I could be putting in Susie's food to help her with this? I do have a phone call into a vet regarding this.
 
@Heather82372
Stress can elevate BP although usually no more than 20 points - so that can be taken into account—
I agree with all else you said about BP and I started to recommend it to Summer last night as an inexpensive thing to check because, besides being common in CKD cats, it can occur with proteinuria. But…back to my point here that stress can elevate the BP way more than 20 mm Hg. My Tobey has his BP checked every six months as he as a very occasional PVC and he also has a left fascicular bundle branch block. We learned to take him in for the last appt of the day when there were fewer dogs and people and to, as you noted, always do the BP first. On the occasions when we didn’t do that, his BP would be 180-200 when taken multiple times in a session. However, when I’d wait a day and take him back when it was really quiet, sit with him for ten minutes in a somewhat darkened room with soft music playing, his BP was always 120-130. Stress can often really elevate the BP.

My vet charges $35 for a BP.

Thanks, Marje. I'm glad you responded because I want to ask you a question. If Susie was getting too much phosphorus in her food wouldn't that be reflected in her phosphorus count in her blood test. She has had normal numbers since December and, in fact, actually dropped a little since her April labs.
Depends. A cat with healthy kidneys would be able to process the P just fine. However, IMHO, there is no need to feed any food with high P levels to an adult cat because IF the kidney values aren’t being monitored and the cat starts to show CKD, that P value in serum chemistries can jump fast. For that reason, I believe it’s smart to feed lower P foods to adult cats. Kittens require higher P foods for formation of bone but adults do not.

Susie’s P levels are good now but to keep them that way as she ages and potentially develops CKD, keep the P in food down.

I hope that helps.
 
Depends. A cat with healthy kidneys would be able to process the P just fine. However, IMHO, there is no need to feed any food with high P levels to an adult cat because IF the kidney values aren’t being monitored and the cat starts to show CKD, that P value in serum chemistries can jump fast. For that reason, I believe it’s smart to feed lower P foods to adult cats. Kittens require higher P foods for formation of bone but adults do not.
I totally agree with Marje. This is quite true. Adult cats don't need high phosphorus foods. Kittens do. This is why I am a bit of an evangelist for lower phosphorus foods in adult cats. Several people have tried to pick fights with me over this (on the CKD list) but eventually the mods came in and backed me up when somebody suggested that I would be depriving my cats of this "essential mineral." There's no way you can eliminate ALL phosphorus from the diet, so the argument was silly. It's just that phosphorus is processed by the kidneys. Lower the phos... less work for the kidneys. Dr. Lisa says this is so. Everybody needs to make their choices about this though because not all cats are the same and some won't eat certain foods, etc. and then, as we all know, there are concerns like carbs for some of us... and above all ... the cat's gotta eat! Even on the CKD groups they acknowledge that some people have to feed their cats whatever they will eat (and hopefully use phosphorus binders if necessary to keep phos in check.)
 
But…back to my point here that stress can elevate the BP way more than 20 mm Hg. My Tobey has his BP checked every six months as he as a very occasional PVC and he also has a left fascicular bundle branch block. We learned to take him in for the last appt of the day when there were fewer dogs and people and to, as you noted, always do the BP first. On the occasions when we didn’t do that, his BP would be 180-200 when taken multiple times in a session. However, when I’d wait a day and take him back when it was really quiet, sit with him for ten minutes in a somewhat darkened room with soft music playing, his BP was always 120-130. Stress can often really elevate the BP.
Yes. Obviously your Tobey is a high stress cat at the vet. That's different. Susie isn't though (Summer says she prances all around and seems to like the attention). I believe @Wendy&Neko also said that she saw a lot of variation in Neko's blood pressure depending on how quiet or not it was at the vet, etc. They made special arrangements to have it done in a quiet setting, I believe, and it made a lot of difference. Thanks, Marj!

I get a little bit on my soapbox about BP checks too! It all goes back to Dr. Lisa telling me in a consult that she was sick and tired of seeing cats go blind because their vets wouldn't check their blood pressure!
 
@Heather82372

I agree with all else you said about BP and I started to recommend it to Summer last night as an inexpensive thing to check because, besides being common in CKD cats, it can occur with proteinuria. But…back to my point here that stress can elevate the BP way more than 20 mm Hg. My Tobey has his BP checked every six months as he as a very occasional PVC and he also has a left fascicular bundle branch block. We learned to take him in for the last appt of the day when there were fewer dogs and people and to, as you noted, always do the BP first. On the occasions when we didn’t do that, his BP would be 180-200 when taken multiple times in a session. However, when I’d wait a day and take him back when it was really quiet, sit with him for ten minutes in a somewhat darkened room with soft music playing, his BP was always 120-130. Stress can often really elevate the BP.

My vet charges $35 for a BP.


Depends. A cat with healthy kidneys would be able to process the P just fine. However, IMHO, there is no need to feed any food with high P levels to an adult cat because IF the kidney values aren’t being monitored and the cat starts to show CKD, that P value in serum chemistries can jump fast. For that reason, I believe it’s smart to feed lower P foods to adult cats. Kittens require higher P foods for formation of bone but adults do not.

Susie’s P levels are good now but to keep them that way as she ages and potentially develops CKD, keep the P in food down.

I hope that helps.

Summer I agree with Marje. If Susie will eat the lower phosphorous food, absolutely do it. My Koda is 15 and I'm not willing to risk him not eating. Any time I tried anything other than FF pate he would turn his nose. He was diagnosed with Stage 2 CKD & pancreatitis at the end of April. Between then and 2 weeks ago he had lost a full pound! With small FF meals and high protein kibble I've been able to get a half a pound back on him. Hopefully you can get Susie to switch and are able to figure out the insulin along with the food change. Fingers crossed!!! :)
 
Is Shooter okay at the vet? I mean is he one of the ones who really freaks out of handles it okay? Of course, he probably hates it, but does he stay relatively calm (or just too scared to move). I have some of each of those in my menagerie.

He isn't TOO bad. Is high BP pretty common in diabetics? Although even if he weren't diabetic he is still 14 yrs old. He probably should be checked. I had no idea that was even done with cats until this page. Koda who is my ckd/pancreatitis kitty does TERRIBLE at the vet. He salivates and drools profusely! He really should probably have his BP checked too though.
 
@Heather82372

I agree with all else you said about BP and I started to recommend it to Summer last night as an inexpensive thing to check because, besides being common in CKD cats, it can occur with proteinuria. But…back to my point here that stress can elevate the BP way more than 20 mm Hg. My Tobey has his BP checked every six months as he as a very occasional PVC and he also has a left fascicular bundle branch block. We learned to take him in for the last appt of the day when there were fewer dogs and people and to, as you noted, always do the BP first. On the occasions when we didn’t do that, his BP would be 180-200 when taken multiple times in a session. However, when I’d wait a day and take him back when it was really quiet, sit with him for ten minutes in a somewhat darkened room with soft music playing, his BP was always 120-130. Stress can often really elevate the BP.

My vet charges $35 for a BP.


Depends. A cat with healthy kidneys would be able to process the P just fine. However, IMHO, there is no need to feed any food with high P levels to an adult cat because IF the kidney values aren’t being monitored and the cat starts to show CKD, that P value in serum chemistries can jump fast. For that reason, I believe it’s smart to feed lower P foods to adult cats. Kittens require higher P foods for formation of bone but adults do not.

Susie’s P levels are good now but to keep them that way as she ages and potentially develops CKD, keep the P in food down.

I hope that helps.
It does help and thank you. That was my thinking as well. It can't hurt my girl for me to find a cat food with lower P levels that she will eat. I have had a cat with CKD and it was so sad and a nightmare for the kitty.
 
Summer I agree with Marje. If Susie will eat the lower phosphorous food, absolutely do it. My Koda is 15 and I'm not willing to risk him not eating. Any time I tried anything other than FF pate he would turn his nose. He was diagnosed with Stage 2 CKD & pancreatitis at the end of April. Between then and 2 weeks ago he had lost a full pound! With small FF meals and high protein kibble I've been able to get a half a pound back on him. Hopefully you can get Susie to switch and are able to figure out the insulin along with the food change. Fingers crossed!!! :)
Thanks, Heather. I appreciate the information and totally agree on the importance of always having a food on hand that our cats will eat.
 
Yes. Obviously your Tobey is a high stress cat at the vet. That's different. Susie isn't though (Summer says she prances all around and seems to like the attention). I believe @Wendy&Neko also said that she saw a lot of variation in Neko's blood pressure depending on how quiet or not it was at the vet, etc. They made special arrangements to have it done in a quiet setting, I believe, and it made a lot of difference. Thanks, Marj!
It’s funny because he’s actually not. He’s very chill and they adore him but I do believe the process of taking BP stresses him….the tape, the gel, etc altho one can do anything with his paws. It’s difficult to tell which cat might have a response in BP to vet stress. Similarly, some cats see a very high rise in BG at the vet and others do not. Gracie was another who was very chill…as in happily purred and head butted at the vet but her BG always went up.

Several people have tried to pick fights with me over this (on the CKD list) but eventually the mods came in and backed me up when somebody suggested that I would be depriving my cats of this "essential mineral."
You and I have the same soapbox. It’s interesting people would think you were depriving your cat of P by feeding a lower P food because the only therapeutically low P diets are the prescription diets. My balanced raw comes out at about 150 mgP/100 kcal or 0.8%. That is not a low P food. It’s a lower P food but the therapeutic foods for low P are under 0.5% and you won’t find a nontherapeutic that low. So, in other words, their argument that you are depriving the cats of an essential mineral is completely bogus.

Is high BP pretty common in diabetics?
No not in non-acro diabetics, per se, but it’s common in CKD cats and it can also be high idiopathically and certainly in cats with heart conditions. I like to be on the safe side and I even have my 5 year old checked every six months because, while she does not have PVCs, she also has a left fascicular bundle branch block (benign in both cats; lots of cats have this without the CG even knowing). We do an EKG & BP on both every six months and echo every two years.

I believe vets are remiss in not getting a baseline BP for pets when they are 5-6 years old. The incidence of CKD in cats over 10 is, I believe, about 50%, so have that baseline data!
 
Oh my gosh, I have opened a "can of worms" with my blood test questions. I am now more paranoid than ever. Will monitor her recent (and past) blood test results and try not to send myself into a paranoia regarding her health. I will listen closely to all the advise I have been given but, honestly, having to deal with an elderly Mom sort of takes priority. Still waiting for a call back from my vet.

Thanks to all who have provided advice and input. I will take it all into consideration. I think I just need a little break from the diabetes situation until I can get my Mom straightened out.
 
Stress can elevate BP although usually no more than 20 points
Except in the case of a certain black and white cat I used to have. First attempt at BP, super stressed, barky dogs, vet busy due to emergency, newbie techs = BP over 220. An epic fail, not charged. Attempt #2 at her acupuncture clinic, a smaller clinic but a puppy jumped her kennel. Sigh, BP about 180, not charged. Third time lucky at the dental vet, after resting in a room with no other animals and Feliway going, BP = 140. No extra charge because the dental vet was going to do that before her dental anyway. After that, I always sprayed her carrier with Feliway before the vet visit and gave her Rescue Remedy before hand, and that seemed to help the BP register around the same.

Marje's Tobey is a very chill cat. I've met him, he's adorable. :kiss:
Is high BP pretty common in diabetics?
In addition to what Marje said, Susie has higher protein in her urine. If she does have proteinuria, they will want to figure out why, to know how to treat it. One of the steps in learning what caused the proteinuria involves testing her BP. That's when I had to get Neko's BP done.
 
Oh my gosh, I have opened a "can of worms" with my blood test questions. I am now more paranoid than ever. Will monitor her recent (and past) blood test results and try not to send myself into a paranoia regarding her health. I will listen closely to all the advise I have been given but, honestly, having to deal with an elderly Mom sort of takes priority. Still waiting for a call back from my vet.

Thanks to all who have provided advice and input. I will take it all into consideration. I think I just need a little break from the diabetes situation until I can get my Mom straightened out.

Don't worry about what anyone else thinks Summer. You have to do what's best for YOUR family (and for yourself). Trying to do EVERYTHING all at once can be completely overwhelming and end up making you not well to help anyone else. Prioritize and do the best you can WHEN you can.
 
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