? 7/26 Chispa first dose: where does it go?

Karen and Chispa (GA)

Karen and Chispa (GA)

Member Since 2022
My supplies arrive today and I've spent the last two hours reviewing all of the information I've read so far in order to not screw it up. And I'm not sure how I missed this before, but on the "Diabetes for Beginners" page, it says:

You can inject anyplace that works for you, but the scruff of the neck should be avoided due to its poor blood supply.
​
This is very confusing to me. I got an in-person demo from a vet tech last week and took a video --- I am attaching two screen shots from when he is showing me where the needle is supposed to go. Perhaps my understanding of cat anatomy is flawed, but it sure looks like the scruff to me.

I'm really uncomfortable about deviating from what I've been shown, but is this not going to work if I give the shot in the indicated spot??

Any advice greatly appreciated.


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Hello, and welcome!

The below imagine from this page has the scruff as an option but I have read here that some cats have very thick skin there and have a hard time shooting… so it may depend on your cat. There’s another better image that someone else may share before I can find it. I personally shoot on the side because it’s easier for me to ‘pinch up’ a good spot while my cat is laying down. It takes some practice and you’ll miss a few times but you will get it! I was so freaked out, but am very comfortable now.

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Welcome to LLB Karen. We have many complicated cats so you have come to the right place. I read what you found on where to shoot. I figured since ever cat I ever had need sub-q fluids at some point I would shoot on the flank, side of chest or tummy. I tested and gave insulin in a bathroom sink that was a perfect height and Max was very chill about it. Shooting in the scruff is just fine too. I hope you set up a spreadsheet even if you choose not to follow one of our methods. My vet really liked it and showed mine to his 3rd year veterinary students. Keep asking questions. I’m sure you will have many. There’s a steep learning curve with fd.
 
OK, now I have another question: Should I wait until tomorrow morning to give the first dose, so that I can test every couple of hours?

(Sorry to be neurotic, but I am scared to death of doing something wrong.)
 
It’s going to take 5-7 days for the depot to build. I always felt better starting or increasing doses in the morning. Almost all of us are neurotic and most scared when first starting. I was not going to test and became a testaholic!

Are you planning on giving insulin at 8:00?
 
Personally I use the scruff because it means I can quickly bend down and give him the shot while he is finishing up his meal, before he goes off to do some other mischief under a bed or something. I don't need to really restrain him and he rarely notices. The first time I did the shot I wore surgical gloves, held him tightly, apologized tearfully to him, and hesitated about five times. It does get easier!

The key is probably just not to use the very same spot in the scruff (or anyplace) every time. Move it around a bit.
 
tiffmaxee said:
It’s going to take 5-7 days for the depot to build. I always felt better starting or increasing doses in the morning. Almost all of us are neurotic and most scared when first starting. I was not going to test and became a testaholic!

Are you planning on giving insulin at 8:00?
Click to expand...

I was planning on giving it at 9pm, but after seeing your note I decided to hold off until tomorrow morning. It's been one week and one day since she was diagnosed and I feel like the clock is ticking ... but I do think I'll feel better if I can watch and monitor her for the first 12 + hours.
 
Is that a good time for you? Lantus reaches nadir, lowes5 point, often from +5-mid cycle so sometimes you will need to get tests then even at night. Are you a night owl? Will you be at work all day?
 
"":

tiffmaxee said:
Is that a good time for you? Lantus reaches nadir, lowes5 point, often from +5-mid cycle so sometimes you will need to get tests then even at night. Are you a night owl? Will you be at work all day?
Click to expand...

Figuring out a good schedule has been tough. It's the timing of the evening dose that's most problematic. I work from home, and if I leave at all on weekdays it's to go to the gym, usually between 6:30 and 8:30 p.m. Sundays are the real problem: I'm committed to a dance class that starts at 6:15pm and ends at 8:30, which gets me home around 9 if I leave at the end. But we are strongly encouraged to stay for practice time, which runs from 8:30 until 11. The best compromise would seem to be staying for 1 hour and getting home by 10 -- which would be an hour after the normal dose time, but I understand that an hour of leeway in the schedule is ok (yes?).

I am a night owl by nature, so if I have to get up at 2am (+5) to test, then that's what I'll do. Can you explain a bit about why or when that would be necessary?

I am confused about her feedings too. Ordinarily she gets small meals at 7am, 11am, 3pm, 7pm, and 11pm, plus a small snack overnight in the automatic feeder (I started the small feedings last year when they were both vomiting; it seemed to work better for them). The vet said I could give her a large meal with each insulin dose and then smaller snacks in between. But then somewhere else I read that it's better to give the large meals after the dose has started to kick in, which I guess would mean she'd be getting her main meals at 11am and 11 pm. Does that sound right?

Any suggestions greatly appreciated. I feel like my brain is going to explode.
 
Hello! How about 5:30/6:00 am/pm? That should work for both your classes. It will suck on days you don’t have to be up early but I’ve got used to sleepwalking through the morning routine and going back to bed to nap or occasionally sneaking in a surprisingly productive morning.
 
That’s great that she’s used to an auto feeder. Small eats during the first half of the cycle is what most do. I had already been doing that before Max became diabetic as he had chronic pancreatitis and that’s best for that too. Most test, feed, shoot all within about 10 minutes. You don’t wait for it to start working to feed. Lantus generally kicks in around two hours after injection, sometimes earlier, sometimes later. For Max it seemed to be +2.5-3. So he ate about two cans of fancy feast a day. I’d give 1/3 at shot time and snacks at +2 and +5. So if you test at +2 and the bg is coming down you know it will be an active cycle requiring a later test.

I picked 6:00 for my shot time so I could work out in the morning, get back in time for his snack and get out of the house by +6. At night I could feed and shoot and get a test in if I wanted to go out.
 
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Thank you both for your totally logical suggestions of 5:30/6. That would work, if not for the other curveball of my being out of town in late August and mid October. My boyfriend (whom Chispa looooves ) will be taking care of her while I’m gone. Taking into account his commute, he leaves here by 8:45am and doesn’t get home until at least 7. So 9am/pm is the only time I can figure out that works for both of us on both ends, with a little finagling.​

So if you test at +2 and the bg is coming down you know it will be an active cycle requiring a later test.
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Elise, could you elaborate on what you mean by an active cycle? Shouldn’t the BG always be coming down from the time the shot is given until the nadir is reached? How do you determine when a later test is needed?

Sorry to be dense ... Thanks for your patience. ​
 
Your previous post for continuity
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/introducing-chispa-dx-07-18-2022.266207/#post-2980652

I have always shot in the scruff just pull up until you feel like an indentation there and shoot or where ever else you decide to shoot
When you get a chance can you go back to your signature now that you have a meter and please add it to your signature and what you are feeding
Ex low carb or combo (lc & dry)
Just tap on your name above and then tap signature add the info and tap Save
Good luck :cat:

Oh when you post on the lantus forum tomorrow morning
You would post like this
7-27 Chispa AMPS # and any additional tests after that , the PMPS# and additional tests after that
To go back and add the additional tests look to the right you will see it says Thread Tools tap that the tap Edit Title ,add you tests and tap Save
And always link your previous days post to each new day
 
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Thank you, guardian angels!! I gave the first dose at 8:35am and both of us appear to have survived it, so that's a win. I'll go and post specifics on the Lantus forum.

Looking at other people's spreadsheets has scared the heck out of me. Some of them go from high numbers to scary low numbers within an hour, and for no reason! How does anyone survive this? Are we destined to worry constantly for the rest of our/our cats' lives? :..(
 
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