7/21 Jinx PMPS 342

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Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48 ; need some help

Joe....you can't shoot a 48 so you should stall and see if he will eat and retest. If you can't get his number well above 48 and get him to eat....I wouldn't even give him a BCS.

On the flip side, if he has any infection brewing, he's needs insulin. I know it's tough but the best scenario is if he eats...even if you have to syringe feed him and get his numbers up enough to shoot.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48 ; need some help

Hi guys .. no advice from us, but if you aren't shooting this, it's not your AMPS number either, it would be +12 or +13, etc. Know what I mean?
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48 ; need some help

He's eating some dry food now. I will test him when he finishes and update where he's at.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48 ; need some help

He's at 66 now. He probably ate a couple tablespoons of dry food. Should I should 1.0u now (half his normal dose)?
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48 ; need some help

Just remember it takes a while for dry to kick in so anything at all you can get into him (wet....cat food or baby food) will kick in sooner.

It seems he's gone about 1-1/2 days without eating much. I'm beginning to wonder if you should talk to your vet about a feeding tube if you can't get him to start eating. From Dr. Lisa's site, he needs a minimum of 15 calories/lb/day in order to keep him from getting feline hepatic lipidosis. While it's high in carbs, I'm wondering if you can pick up some a/d at your vet.....my cats have never been able to refuse it even when they've been sick. It's also easier to syringe. We can always adjust the insulin if you can get him to eat the food.

Also, from Dr. Lisa's site:
Hepatic lipidosis (HL) is a life-threatening condition that can occur when a cat is either completely anorexic (not eating anything) for 48 hours or more or is consuming less than 50% of his daily caloric needs over several/many days. It more commonly occurs when overweight cats are not consuming enough calories but cats that are carrying a proper amount of weight can also end up with HL
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Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48 ; need some help

Marje, he just ate a little Natural Balance canned chicken and green pea formula but not much. The local Petsmart has some of the a/d but I'm on the phone now trying to get the emergency clinic to call in a prescription for me.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48 ; need some help

Ok....usually vet clinics carry it but whatever works and is easiest for you. I wouldn't buy TOO much just in case he doesn't like it but I always keep a few cans around here. It's pretty palatable. It's also rich, tho, so it may give him diarrhea.

How's his BG?
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48 ; need some help

It was 66 at +1.25. Would you shoot now or base it off where he's at at +2?

The local emergency clinic doesn't carry it and they said they're real busy doing critical care so it might take awhile to get the prescription . If they even agree to give me one.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48, +1.25 66

Also, I gave him some bupe this morning but he wouldn't eat a pill pocket so I haven't given him any ondansetron yet. Do you think it's important enough that I try to pill him that?
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48, +1.25 66

If you can continue to stall and make up the time slowly over the next few days, I'd like to see him just a bit higher with the eating issue.

Bummer on the a.d......

I think if you can get the ondansetron in him, it would be a good idea.

Karrie is out right now and will be back in a couple hours and will check in with you.

I've got to test/feed Gracie and crew right now. If he's up more at +2, how do you feel about shooting 1u?
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48, +1.25 66

I put all of J.D.'s bits of pills into one pill pocket and push it down the side of his throat. Every once in a great while he'll actually eat the pill pocket but I hold my breath thinking he'll crunch down on one of the pills and spit the whole thing out.
I find it just easier to pill the pill pocket than just a pill by itself.

Another option is Iams MaxCal http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=62430 I would check it out, too.

Sending feel better and appetite come back vines to Jinx.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48, +1.25 66

He's 80 at +2 so I'm going to shoot 1.0u pretty soon. Also found a local mobile vet who's going to leave three cans of the a/d in their mailbox for me. So I'll head out after I shoot to pick some that up.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48, +1.25 66

Good...on all accounts. And I'd also take Dyanas suggestion about the IAMS if you don't need a script. The more options you have, the better.

Eta: I read the post on the maxcal...sounds terrific if you can get it...it would maybe be the better option and the a/d could be a backup.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48, +1.25 66, +2 80

Thanks, Marje and Dyana. Just shot 1.0u and pilled the zofran. Going to pick up the a/d now and will see if Petsmart has the maxcal. Will test and let you know where he's at when I get back.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48, +1.25 66, +2 80

When I fostered a cat from the local shelter who had feline hepatic lipidosis, the vet suggested Royal Canin Recovery Formula. It's similar to A/D but the consistency is even easier to syringe out of the can. It also has "various starches" so not great for diabetics, but is another alternative. Just remember that it is chicken based so when you force feed a cat with one protein, they may go off that protein for a while when eating on their own again.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48, +1.25 66, +2 80

I'll call around to the local vets to see if they have any of the maxcal. I don't think I'm going to have many options on a Saturday though.

Just game back with the a/d and FF classics chicken and he won't eat either.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 48, +1.25 66, +2 80

Hi Joe, Since Jinx is a diabetic food is even more important to him than a cat just fighting pancreatitis. Keep an eye on ketones.

You have a few options. Jinx has to keep the food down. Can you get some cerenia for vomiting? Do you have some already? It is available as an injectible. A lot of cats with pancreatitis are on both cerenia (vomiting) and ondansetron (nausea).

Is he hydrated? Check his gums and his neck.

Is he pooping okay?

Food does no good if he won't keep it down. Tips are to only do ten mls at a time very frequently. And warm it up to room temperature. Cold food is a nausea trigger. Don't feed ultra smelly foods.

Are you able to syringe feed Jinx easily? Or finger feed him dollops of food? This is a lot easier than tempting him to eat on his own. But again he has to keep it down.

You have the baby scale right? Have you figured out how many calories Jinx needs to maintain his weight? This is the requirement.

If he isn't getting enough calories by sryinge feeding/eating on his own - an etube could be considered. A few of the FDMB cats have had one this past year - Tawny and Garland. They both survived DKA. The yahoo feline assisted feeding group that I participate on has many cats a week normally with etubes. Its very easy to place and the cats adjust so much quicker than their owners. I will post more on this option once I hear back from you with the answers to the above questions.

AD is fairly low in calories. I think its lower than fancy feast but I have to double check. Its only 160 calories or so for a 5.5 oz can. Its easy on the stomach but may not be enough calories for Jinx to maintain his weight. MaxCal is 330 calories and extremely high fat - may be too hard on Jinx with his pancreatitis. Calories is often more important when it comes to a cat fighting pancreatitis. The cat has to keep the food down - this is the most critical point. I really hope you have cerenia or will get it soon.

Sending hugs. I have to run back into town for another couple hours. I'll try and check in by my iphone but its painful to type on LOL.

Keep hanging in there.

Karrie
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 80 (at +14.25), +1.75 115

Karrie

I think Joe might have gone out to look for more food but I know that the vet gave Jinx a shot of cerenia yesterday but was concerned that if she gave Joe prefilled syringes, it would degrade in the light :roll: :roll: So she did give him some pills which is fine unless he can't get them down him or he vomits them back up. Since Joe has IV lines with ports, I had wondered about giving the injection through the port when he gives fluids but I guess it wasn't an option because of the vet's concern about degradation (and thus ineffectiveness) of any cerenia exposed to light once it was removed from the dark bottle they have at the clinic.

Thank you for checking in !!!!
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 80 (at +14.25), +1.75 115

Karrie, I forgot to include yesterday's link but in that, I responded to your questions from last night.

He did get a shot of Cerenia at the vet clinic last night and I came home with 4 tablets. I explained why I opted for that in yesterday's condo. He's also getting 1mg ondansetron BID and I upped the bupe dose from 0.20mL BID to three times daily but may do every six hours.

I just warmed up some of the a/d and he ate it but when I tried to give him more, I found him hiding under one of the beds.

I haven't figured out how many calories he needs to maintain his weight but he's been relatively stable at 16lbs 2oz with two of the 5.5 or 6oz cans of the NV canned duck twice a day. And that seems to be about as much as he wants to eat anyways.

I've never syringe fed him but I will give it a shot tonight if this continues. I'm assuming I'll need to got the vets to pick up at least a 10mL syringe, right?

Thank-you for all the help. I did call the vet clinic and asked them if they use the "E" feeding tubes there and the tech I spoke to said they typically like to start with a fluid regiment before a feeding tube is considered. I explained that I give him fluids at home and I'm more concerned with him getting calories now than fluids. So they're going to call the internist and will let me know what she says.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 80 (at +14.25), +1.75 115

Joe, do you give Jinx some Cyproheptadine or Mirtazapine, as an apetite stimulant? I used to like Mirtz, but now prefer to use the Cypro. I give J.D. a 1/4 tablet of cypro every once in awhile when he starts acting like food isn't appetizing. In about 30 minutes, he starts eating.
Are you able to syringe feed him some food? I think the suggestion to join the Feline Assisted Feeding Group is a good one. They will be able to help you, there. If you want, I'll find the video on assist feeding.
Sending really strong eating
smiley-eatdrink022.gif
vines to Jinx.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 80 (at +14.25), +1.75 115

Dyana, I gave him Mirtz once when he was initially dx'd with pancreatitis but then switched to anti-nausea. I really didn't like his reaction to the Mitrz. He was acting awfully loopy but I'm wondering if now might be a good time to give him one. If I can get him out from under the bed...

I've never syringe fed him but will try tonight and join the FAF board if this continues. A video would be much appreciated.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 80 (at +14.25), +1.75 115

I did a Search on the FDMB for "video syringe feeding" and found this page http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-Assisted-Feeding/ along with the video I was looking for that can be found on that first page http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6o17wH6ujk

I have used Mirtz, and it works well, but it would make J.D. aggitated sometimes, and you are only supposed to give it every 3 days. The Mirtz would also wear off after a day or so, and I would have to wait for the 3 days to give him some more.
I have been using cypro recently, as it works pretty fast, and doesn't make him aggitated, and you can give it twice a day, I think... my bottle reads "give 1 time daily", so I'm not sure on that. But it gets J.D. to eat for about 4 or 5 hours or so and then it seems to wear off, but it gets him through the food I want him to eat after giving a shot, and it doesn't make him meow constantly and act all weird, like Mirtz seems to do.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 80 (at +14.25), +1.75 115

Hiding under the bed could be pain or nausea. Lets see how he does. I would do syringe feeding over an appetite stimulant. If you think you could syringe feed and he gets the food down and keeps it down you don't have to go with a chemical appetite stimulant. I am biased. I know there are reasons to use an appetite stimulant. Especially when a cat is fractious or fights assist feeding. I would give the cerenia time to work and see if the increased bupe helps. So glad you got Cerenia. I was very worried about managing calories without this. Are you giving him 2mg of ondansetron? I recall you were going to up it every 12 hours but have missed out on a lot.

I'm going back out again. DH has FINALLY agreed to replace the kitchen sticky tiles that have been there for 15 years - since I bought the house. He's spent the morning scraping them all off and his back is killing him. I feel bad. And I forgot to get his pizza when I went out this last trip :lol: I'm a bad wife. Had tile colours on my brain. I have to drive out now with his truck and pick up the subfloor. Have to get everything while he's in the mood. He did the hardwood in the living room/hallway about six years ago and I still don't have trim on the walls when he took it off to lay the hardwood.

Good that he ate on his own. Do go out and get oral feeding syringes. You can cut the tip to make it larger and smooth the sharp edges. You can just get ten ml ones and fill up a few each feeding. With the cerenia and ondansetron on board he may be able to take 20ml feedings. Maverick worked up to 50mls when he had his feeding tube (including water for flushes). You don't need a tube if Jinx is able to be syringe fed and eats enough calories. Just educating you on this before hand - so you know all of your options. Some cats need etubes if they need assist feeding for weeks at a time. Its an invaluable tool. Some owners are able to syringe feed well enough.

Off to Home Depot again. Hope today is a lot better. Cerenia/ondansetron/bupe are worth their weight in gold. You are doing an amazing job. Keep it up.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 80 (at +14.25), +1.75 115

I feel like such a man when I'm driving his truck even though its a light truck. Even worse with the plywood on the back for the drive home. ohmygod_smile And no A/C to boot!
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 80 (at +14.25), +1.75 115

Thank-you, Karrie. Do I have to go to a vet clinic to get those syringes?

I'm giving him 1mg ondansetron BID but do you think I should increase to 2mg BID?

Just posted on intro on the FAF board. I need to try to get him out from under the bed so I can test him and I need to try to lay down for a bit myself.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 80 (at +14.25), +1.75 115

I saw your post on FAF. I'm sure you'll get some feedback. Hiding isn't uncommon. You need Jinx to be easily accessible though. So block off under the bed if you can.

I got my oral feeding syringes from the vet. For now you could get a syringe from the pharmacy and use it until you get to the vets.

Karrie
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 80 (+14.25), +1.75 115, +4.25 113, +6.25

Thanks, Karrie. I'm heading out now to pick up some syringes.

Does everyone think I should blend up his regular NV canned duck or should I try something else; e.g. the Hills a/d?

Also, considering I shot half of his regular dose today at 10:15am rather than his usual 8am time, what time should I shoot tonight?

Thanks again for all the help and well wishes everyone.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 80 (+14.25).+6.25 175, when to shoot toni

Given that he's not eating that much, I wouldn't shoot early tonight, as an early shot is like a dose increase. I would wait the 12 hours from his last shot. Will that mess with your schedule?
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 80 (+14.25).+6.25 175, when to shoot toni

My response won't really help at all:

Since he has IBD and Pancreatitis and Diabetes I'm not sure what you should feed. What has the most calories? If you try and prime the pump you could try with a few mouthfuls of NV maybe. If you are syringe feeding a full feeding I would normally feed something you don't depend on him eating day in and day out. I hope others with experience in IBD can comment. I know AD isn't that high in calories - 150 or 160 calories I think. Pure meat babyfood (no garlic/seasoning/onions). I know one is 100 calories a jar but that one has cornstarch. But AD I think is easy on the stomach. Hope someone posts soon.

MaxCal is 330 calories. Maybe mixing this with some AD might be a better idea for assist feeding. I will be learning along with you about whats best.
Click to expand...

I know calories are really important. MaxCal has 330 calories and is very low carb but very high fat. So I'm not sure he'll keep this down. But AD might not be enough calories. Its actually a fairly low calorie food.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS +9.5 302, when to shoot?

Dyana, it won't mess with my schedule too much. Aside from his +6 being at 4am but I'm going to do whatever is best for him. A couple things to consider are that I gave him half his regular dose and he is now (+9.5) at 302.

Karrie, thank-you again for your help. I went with the Wellness Core Chicken because it has a decent amount of calories and is relatively low in carbs.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 80 (+14.25), +9.5 302, when to shoot?

Sounds like a plan! I switched Maverick to Wellness Chicken - not the core - once he was well on his way to recovery. He didn't have IBD, but had FHL and possible pancreatitis. We saved a fortune over vet food too. Good luck with this.
 
Re: 7/21 Jinx AMPS 80 (+14.25), +9.5 302, when to shoot?

Joe

First...I know you were considering buying a blood ketone meter. Were you able to and have you tested him? We need to be sure and keep an eye on his ketone levels.

Some options for you for tonight.
IF you are well rested, IF you are mentally up for any possibilities, IF you think you can assist feed him every hour if need be, IF you are comfortable with it knowing how Jinx is clinically...lots of "IFs", then you could shoot 1.5u at +10 (from this morning's shot) which would put you back on schedule. Jinx is going up pretty high already and if you consider that tonight's cycle will show the effects of the 1u, stalled shot this morning, then the 1.5u is appropriate as long as you feel up to it....all things considered.

If you are not up to it, then you might want to shoot only one hour early at the 1.5u dose or on time with the 1.5u dose. It's your call. We can be here to support you on line but you have to do all the hard work.
 
Thanks, Karrie! It has gone well so far.

Marje, I got the Nova Max Plus last night and his ketones tested in the normal range at 0.3.

I assist fed him 10mL of the Wellness Core at 8pm, shot 1.5u at 8:15pm, and gave him another 10mL at 8:45pm. He wasn't bad about it aside from growling pretty much the entire time. :lol:

I will check on the FAF board but should I plan on giving 10mL every hour or just depending on where his BG levels are? It looks like it's going to take about 7 or so 10mL syringes for a 5.5oz can.
 
10ml is great to start with but you will need to figure out how many calories he needs - maybe he can handle fifteen. If you know how much he was eating to maintain you can find out how much he needs to eat of any food. Watch for stomach lurching, teeth grinding - they may be signs you need to take a break. Teeth grinding is often nausea.

Remember to make assist feeding really enjoyable :lol: Tell him how pretty and brave he is - heck I sang to Maverick to get him to sit still for his tube feedings, along with brushing, petting etc. Reward him after with something he loves like brushing also.

One you get practice, there will be a rhythm.

Remember to take time for you to be okay. I was a wreck when Maverick was sick - I couldn't sleep and worried non stop. I actually went to the doctor because I couldn't cope very well with the stress. She told me to take 1/2 hour a day for just me - no care taking, worrying about Maverick. It made a world of difference. So don't forget about you - you need to be well.
 
Great....so glad about the ketones.

Also great that you got food in him. I'd give him his regular caloric needs plus a little more but Karrie would be better to tell you how much more.

You are doing phenomenal. If I ever need a nurse, you're the man!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Just want to give some virtual hugs and scritches. I hope the meds kick in soon and he starts to feel like eating. If you haven't found them yet some pet stores carry syringes for feeding kittens. And if you have a feed store, there are really big ones for horses.
 
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