7/21 Bob PMPS=152 Dose??

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Lkldcatlady

Lkldcatlady

Member Since 2013
I gave bob his canned and some dry so I wasn't testing him! He ate quite a bit this am, but right now he is desperately looking for food. I prob gave him too much - a big drop of syrup and he licked the gravy off a whole can of HC ff grilled turkey.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42 help!

Lkldcatlady said:
I gave bob his canned and some dry so I wasn't testing him! He ate quite a bit this am, but right now he is desperately looking for food. I prob gave him too much - a big drop of syrup and he licked the gravy off a whole can of HC ff grilled turkey.
Click to expand...
Test him in 20-30 minutes, then post BG#. Put up his food for now.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42 help!

I am going to locate someone else to help you as I am leaving here in about 1/2 hour. You did good giving him the karo and gravy--that is fine--just next feeding, only 1 t.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42 help!

Please take a deep breath!

Yup -- you probably went a bit overboard on the HC. You want to give about 1 - 2 teaspoons of gravy to bump numbers up. Alternatively, you can add a few drops of syrup to LC to do the same thing. Please re-test in 30 min.

You really don't want to feed dry. It takes too long to have an effect on numbers and it takes way longer than you'd expect for it to work it's way out of a cat's system.

Here's the written info on handling low numbers so you have it handy.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42 help!

I tested again which was 15 minutes and he is 52. I put up his food. I'm very surprised. I gave all 3 cats 1 5 oz can of fromm and they all shared 1/8 c of orijen. HEctor and Penelope hardly eat anything so I know Bob ate most of it (and I saw him eat at least 2 oz of the fromm before his shot). I think he feels better - he's lying next to me now. He was ravenously eating what food was left and then got up on the kichen counter looking for more. I guess they do that when they feel low blood sugar?
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42 help!

I didn't feed him the dry to bump up his numbers. He had some left in his bowl from this a.m. and was eating it really fast - that's why I tested him. I just don't understand why he went so low after eating well today. AND he ate a little dry. My plan was to give him a very small amount of dry or a few days and then taking it away again. I think what happened was I was trying out too many wet food flavors on him and he didn't want to eat. I think he's the type of cat that eats the same thing every day.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42 help!

That's great information that Bob will eat when his numbers are running low! Not all cats will spontaneously eat.

I would re-test at +5.5 and see if Bob's numbers are continuing to rise. You'll need to continue monitoring for a while since numbers can wobble as the HC wears off.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64

Thanks Kat and Sienne - I will test again in 30? at +6?

Sienne - I go back to work tomorrow so I'm a bit nervous. I thought that because Bob ate well and had a little dry that his numbers would stay up a bit. I can come home at +4 to check him, but I'm freaking out a bit. Should his insulin be reduced? I would be more than thrilled to do this a little slower - I would love to see him surf some blues before he starts showing all those greens. I would never forgive myself if something happened to him while I'm at work.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64

Hi Dara

Busy morning today for you! Sienne has to pop off and asked if I could check in. I understand you will be getting a +5.5. +6. I'll watch for the test.

It's ok to take the 911 off :-D good catch this morning.

Eta: let me look at his SS and I will come back and respond to questions.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64

Hi Marje - I feel so bad I wasn't checking!!! After his shot, I went back to bed and slept like 4 more hours! I posted his +5.5 in the subject. Could you read my questions to Sienne and tell me what I should do?
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64

Absolutely....I'm looking at his SS now.

Don't worry....it's ok...you caught the 42. Good job! you got him coming up...great!

I will BRB. Go ahead and post his +6 when you get it. :-D thank you!
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64

On my way out the door to work, but...

Should his insulin be reduced?
Click to expand...

The 42 indicates that yes, his dose should be reduced by .25u.

Carl
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64

Hold the phone, Carl, my dear. I want to be sure he didn't just earn a reduction the other night. I was starting to look at his SS when Gussie needed something.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64

Okey doke....Dara.

Yes, reduce his dose to 4u. Carl was correct but I couldn't remember how low he went yesterday and so I wanted to be sure we gave his depot a little time to drain. But, he didn't earn a reduction yesterday so he has now.

When to give the reduction? If he bounces back up at PS tonight, you could shoot through the bounce with 4.25u and reduce in the morning to 4u. But...since you have to work tomorrow and there is always a chance when you shoot through the bounce that he could come back down tonight, you might want to consider giving the reduction tonight. It's up to you.
Even if you reduce tonight, depending on his depot, you still might see lower numbers. There is just no way to predict that.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64

Yesterday was a rough day getting him to eat. I don't know. It just makes me really nervous about going to work...
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64

Ok -I'll reduce him tonight. I still check tonight and come home tomorrow at lunch. Do they still earn the reduction if the low numbers were because he didn't eat as much as he normally does on that day?
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64

I understand. You hold the syringe.....

You can choose to reduce him more than that ....to 3.75u if that's what you want to do.

My only thought is that he is making great progress and clearing bounces quickly now that he's off dry food. What if you could continue to support his progress and he could go into remission....then you wouldn't have to deal with it at all.

If you are able to get home at +4 or maybe take him to work like Dyana does when JD is coming down, then you could perhaps just take him to 4u and let the insulin and protocol work for him.

It's your decision and we support you. We all understand being concerned about leaving.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64

Do they still earn the reduction if the low numbers were because he didn't eat as much as he normally does on that day?
Click to expand...

Yes :-D and you gave him dry today....usually dry will pop them up in a couple hours.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64

Do they still earn the reduction if the low numbers were because he didn't eat as much as he normally does on that day?
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Yes. You might also see, as his numbers become more regulated and lower overall, is a decreased appetite in general. At first, they eat a lot more than normal (and lose weight regardless), because they aren't metabolizing food "normally". As the condition improves, they wouldn't need as much food because their bodies are working better to metabolize it.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64, +6=69

thanks guys - I posted the +6. Ever since I started feeding the canned, none of the kitties have been eating much. The all share 2 5-oz cans a day. That's not very much per kitty (3 kitties). I was reading they should eat way more than that. How much per pound should they eat?

I've also noticed they are not drinking as much. Are they getting enough water with the canned?
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64, +6=69

Great...I see it now..he's just surfing so that's good. I'd see if he will eat a tsp or so of LC and then test at +7.

Roughly, you want to figure about 20 calories/pound. So I would suggest you get a digital baby or cat scale, weigh them all, and then feed that amount per day for a week. Then weigh and see....did some twin? Did some lose? Adjust from there...some might need more calories, some less.

Just as an example of what I do, I determined how many calories each cat should get per day, divided that number by two so they get 1/2 of the daily portion in the morning and the other half at night. i then weigh out the portion and put it in a glass container with their name on the lid. Gracie gets hers on a schedule with her insulin activity. Tobey just gets a couple tsp whenever he wants until that portion is gone; he usually finishes his morning portion within about 5-6 hours. I weigh them every week and make adjustments, if necessary.

They should be getting alot more water from the canned. My cats are all good water drinkers but I add 1-2 tsp of water to every helping of food they get.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64, +6=69??

Well, Bob is 14 pounds but prob should be 12. Hector is a beast but should be about 12 and Penelope is prob about 12 but should be 10. So by that, Bob should be getting 280 but I can't imagine he's even eating that. My cats live in an apt and do not go outside so they are not very active. I try to play with them a little each day. Anyway, maybe that's why they don't eat a whole lot. I have been putting out 1 can of Fromm divided into 3 (extra for Bob) and I was giving 1/8 c of orijen dry for each cat but now I'm dividing the 1/8 cup into 3 so I can go back to weaning Bob off the dry for good. Sometimes I come home and there is still leftover. I was putting some wet food in a timed feeder, but then they wouldn't be hungry at 7:00 pm. I just want to make sure I'm feeding enough. They eat what they need, correct?
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64, +6=69??

I would just keep an eye on their weight. If that is what you are feeding and they are eating what they want, weigh them every week and make sure no one is losing more than about 1-2% of their weight each week.

I'd also try to get rid of the dry as soon as you can. You can keep some around if you need to so that if they don't eat the canned, you can crush the dry into a powder to put on the canned as an enticer.
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64, +6=69??

Dara and BoB

CONGRATULATIONS ON THE REDUCTION!!!!


CONGRATS!!!


I know you are super stressed and way tired....but take a minute and smile.......A REDUCTION!!! HEALING HAPPENING.

I find it hard to believe that you actually went back to bed and slept for 4 hours....I WONDER WHY???!!!!!!!!!! GEE. can we say exhausted! :roll:

I think the best thing to remember is what Sienne said:


That's great information that Bob will eat when his numbers are running low! Not all cats will spontaneously eat
Click to expand...

just remember that tomorrow......that should help when you are at work OBSESSING over Bob

keep it up Dara...you are going great!!!!


~kelly
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274 +7=78 PHOTO

Will do! Thanks so much for all the help!! Bob is up to 78 so feel ok trying to get my crazy house cleaned! I got new furniture so all of my clothes are on the bed. So guess where all the cats are?? Penelope is hard to see when her eyes are closed! haha!
 

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Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42, +5.5=64, +6=69??

Great!! You did well today, Dara.

I'd just be sure and get a +11 so you can post for help if you need it at shot time.

Love the photo!
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +5=42 help!

Nikki's Mom said:
Oh Bob! Stop giving your momma bean anxiety! Hang in there Dara. Great job catching the low!
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Anxiety is not quite the word! Maybe hysteria! :o All is good now! :-D
tomtom13 said:
Dara and BoB

CONGRATULATIONS ON THE REDUCTION!!!!


CONGRATS!!!


I know you are super stressed and way tired....but take a minute and smile.......A REDUCTION!!! HEALING HAPPENING.

I find it hard to believe that you actually went back to bed and slept for 4 hours....I WONDER WHY???!!!!!!!!!! GEE. can we say exhausted! :roll:

I think the best thing to remember is what Sienne said:


That's great information that Bob will eat when his numbers are running low! Not all cats will spontaneously eat
Click to expand...

just remember that tomorrow......that should help when you are at work OBSESSING over Bob

keep it up Dara...you are going great!!!!


~kelly
Click to expand...

WOO HOO!! That canned food is really doing the trick. Now to get Mr. Picky Pants to eat on a regular basis. I am sooooo happy he was looking for food like that. I think I will set the timed feeder for +3 and +5 so he can get more if he needs it. Whew! Glad I was home!
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +7=78 PHOTO

WTG Bob & Dara!! Congratulations on the reduction!! Good job on catching the 42, momma! Bob is doing so well :-D And it is a comfort to know he goes to eat when he starts getting low.

Love the picture - so nice to see all the kitties sleeping together :-D
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +7=78 PHOTO

Great Job Dara, If you want the best place to sit you have to move the cat,or if you want to sleep tonight you have to move it all :lol: Such a cute picture. You did good today hope Bob lets you gets things done :smile:
Linda
 
Re: 7/21 Bob AMPS=274, +7=78 PHOTO

I have so many extra chairs on my screened in porch, just for the cats!

Congratulations on the dose reduction Dara!

Way to go Bob!

Eat more of those canned foods for your mommabean so she can quit worrying so much about you when she is supposed to be working. She needs to work so you can have a place to live, lie around all day on those comfy clothes, have good foods to eat and toys to play with.
 
you tell him Deb! :lol:

So, his PMPS is almost double what it was yesterday, so I should shoot 4.25 tonight and decrease to 4.0 in the am? Just want to make sure I understand what's goin on! And, more than likely, I'll have a high number in the am because of bouncing?
 
Hi Deb - I didn't hear from anyone so I went with 4.25 because I think it was Marje who said I had a choice choice. Bob did great last night on 4.25 (his PMPS was lower though) so I'm sure he'll be good tonight. I'll reduce in the morning and come home early lunch to check on him.

ONe more question - just read on someone else's post - it said if the BG goes DOWN after you feed, then that means the pancreas is working on it's own. Is that while the kitty is on insulin? Not quite sure I understand.
 
Lkldcatlady said:
Hi Deb - I didn't hear from anyone so I went with 4.25 because I think it was Marje who said I had a choice choice. Bob did great last night on 4.25 (his PMPS was lower though) so I'm sure he'll be good tonight. I'll reduce in the morning and come home early lunch to check on him.
Click to expand...

ONe more question - just read on someone else's post - it said if the BG goes DOWN after you feed, then that means the pancreas is working on it's own. Is that while the kitty is on insulin? Not quite sure I understand.
Click to expand...

Well, Lantus does not usually onset until about +2 or +3. Somewhere in there, ECID. So if you have not fed for 2 hours before the pre-shot test, then you feed and the BG drops some more, one of the explanations is that the pancreas is producing some of it's own insulin. Not the only reason though.

2. Doses could be overlapping more and kitty is still coming down from the earlier cycle.
3. Could be the kitty is coming down more from a bounce also.

Those are the 3 reasons I could think of off the top of my head for a drop after you feed them. Limited to the circumstances I described, no food 2 hours , pre-shot test.
 
Dara:

Please monitor carefully tonight. We suggest that you reduce the dose unless you she a bounce at pre-shot time. In other words, I would have reduced Bob's dose tonight unless you had a pre-shot value that was in the pinks.

Here's what Marje posted:
When to give the reduction? If he bounces back up at PS tonight, you could shoot through the bounce with 4.25u and reduce in the morning to 4u. But...since you have to work tomorrow and there is always a chance when you shoot through the bounce that he could come back down tonight, you might want to consider giving the reduction tonight. It's up to you.
Even if you reduce tonight, depending on his depot, you still might see lower numbers. There is just no way to predict that.
Click to expand...
I realize this may not have been entirely clear. So, for tonight, you want to be sure that Bob's numbers stay in a safe range. Definitely reduce in the morning. For the future, always reduce the dose unless you see a bounce into high numbers.

As for onset, that can really vary -- it's an "every cat is different" thing. It looks like Bob can experience early onset. For example, yesterday morning, you saw Bob's numbers start dropping at +1. Gabby is similar in that regard. She has an early onset and often, an early nadir.

I did mention that in some cases, if you feed a cat and numbers drop, it may indicate that food is stimulating the pancreas to produce endogenous (it's own) insulin. As Deb noted, there can be other explanations. If you've followed any of the condos of cats that are on OTJ trials, you may have noticed that we coach people who see their cat test with a higher than expected number, to feed and re-test several hours later to see if the numbers have come down. We hope to see if the food stimulates the pancreas to bring the numbers down.
 
Dara, you're doing great and you have lots of FD experience and great info in your condo today. Just popping in to say "way to go" and don't forget to breathe!
 
Hi Sienne - thx for the clarification. I checked bob at +3 and he was 214 I'm getting ready to check again and ill set the alarm to keep an eye on him. I guess I didn't quite understand what I was supposed to do.

Thanks Anne! We're doing our best! :-D
 
It looks like Bob may be starting to bounce. Not every cat will bounce into higher numbers after a drop. The problem is that if you get a good number like you did tonight, you don't know if it's a number that's on the rise or one that is going to come back down. For that reason, if you're going to shoot through the bounce (i.e., hold the old dose for one more cycle), we want to make sure that numbers aren't too low to do so.

I'd get a test before you plan to go to bed and if numbers are flat or heading up, you're fine to leave Bob's ears alone for the night.
 
He was at 175 at +4. Then he ate half can of Weruva Peking duck (woo hoo!)-no dry today. I'm going to set their timed feeder earlier from now on. Couldn't believe how fast he dropped this am. Ill still check tonite to be safe!! Goin to bed! Have a great nite!!
 
I'm sorry I didn't make it more clear, Dara, and that one of us wasn't on when you got a +11. I was assuming you'd elect to shoot the 4u so you would have a better chance of some sleep tonight. :-D

I'd check him in a couple hours...he might be headed back down.
 
Hey Marje - not your fault at all. I just wasn't quite clear on what to do, but all is good. Bob surfed the blues last night! So happy I can say stuff like that now! :lol:
 
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