7/2 ~ Coco ~ Thinking of TID dosing now.

Status
Not open for further replies.
CocoButterBall

CocoButterBall

Member Since 2011
Hey everyone, Im so sorry i have posted in ages. My pc's motherboard died, and i was stuck on a laptop that can barely load anything lol. So i wasnt really up to typing on it much. It wouldnt load my google spread sheets either. so ... I need to fill in alot of numbers on it from the past week or 2.. Ill get to that later x.x

Basically. the R scale is doing ok. I still get bounces from it. I just dont think they are avoidable at this point. But overall, Its an improvement, but im thinking about going ahead with TID dosing, im pretty sure i wanna try it. I have almost this whole month off, so its a good time to see if its going to work for coco.

The R thing is helping, but its very random and i have to do a lot of guess work on when he decides to spike for the day. I noticed even 20 minutes can mean a 100+ pnt jump for coco. so its not very stable, and the bounces are impossible to bring down, when he does bounce. I also basically cant give him R early in the morning , which isnt helping his cycles much, because hes low in the evening cuz im awake, but high in the morning cuz im sleeping.. so its still the same issue just on a 24 hour period rather then on a 12 hour period.

when i give R i have to test from +5 til he needs R.. then test in 2 hours til he needs his next R.. then test again at ps to give Levemir.. and to really make it work all around i would have to start waking up at +5 of his other cycle and stay up til ps.. giving me . 4 hours of sleep per day and.. 4 hours to go out and do w/e i need to do lol. I can do this.. but i think TID will actually be a lil better because i dont have to keep checking every 20 minutes to find the right time to give him R shots.. and my mom said she can do bg tests in the early morning section of the TID, since im sleeping, so it will make it so much easier.

and i think that its going to make him less bouncy. I see good things from it and im ready to do TID. I know tha it heard it takes loads of experience and what not, but im ready to do it, I want to do it. I feel like i need to try it, and sinse im off all month its the perfect time to start.

I was going to start at 2 units tomorrow at 11 am mountain time. I also made a spread sheet for it right here:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreads ... E&hl=en_US

I don't mean to rush through ideas like the R scale and stuff, but Coco, isn't doing well at all these days.. He has been on a constant decline and i really don't feel like i have like 4 months to see if the R was going to work out.. i dont think he looks like he will last much longer honestly.. . I am seriously worried about him these days.. esp in recent weeks, he just always seems to get worse looking... I think its time to do this TID dosing. he hasn't been regulated since november.. at all. so I'm ready to go into this TID thing.
 
Andrea:

Can you hold off until you get some input from Jill or Libby? I know they are familiar with a few cats who are on TID dosing/custom plans. I'm concerned about the 2.0u dose. When you shoot TID, there's considerable overlap between shots. It's easy to overdose your cat.

What is your current dose?
 
he is at 5u BID atm. Ill def wait for replies. thats why i posted it here first :]

edit:**

thats 4.5u currently.. not 5
 
hi andrea - just wanted to let you know you've been missed! i'm sorry coco's not doing well - perhaps the TID will be just the thing. my vet mentioned it to me, although i don't think he really knew much about it. but if what you're doing isn't working, nothing is lost by trying something else. i like the idea of getting a bit of input to see what has worked well with other kitties.

when you say coco isn't doing well, is it something specific? loss of appetite? greasy hair? what are the things making you feel that he's doing poorly? or just a sense that you have?
 
Poorly like.. he is slowly going down a hill sinse he was dx with diabetes.. He isnt happy.. and it makes me feel horrible. I can just tell, i have been with coco for 13 years sinse he was born ... It just feels like he is slowly declining, i think its because he just doesnt feel good anymore.. its been so long.. 8 months of bouncing and high numbers. never being regulated..

I dont know if its something else, but i think its the glucose because when he is in those blues, he perks up and i see my old kitty again. but they are just so short lived and random, i just think its hard on him,

he is eating a lot still. still boney, matted fur, and hes losing fur i think.. its thinning out.. and its not growing back anywhere near as fast as it used to. he has a shaved spot from February on his thigh, thats still skin. not even starting to grow back.. his fur is usually very fast to grow back.. I havent noticed any further weight loss.. but he is def not gaining any.. still trying to get some of the fortiflora stuff cuz he still has mucky poo ...

He used to purr all the time.. now he still has moments.. but usually only when his glucose is rly good for a few hours..
 
How long has Coco been having poo problems? Has he been on antibiotics? Has he seen the vet for the poo issues? Just because he has diabetes doesn't mean something else can't be going on. Has he been tested for hyperthyroid?
 
yeah, hes been tested, doesnt have hyperthiroid. He was on antibiotics that cause diarrhea back in February. so,.. im thinking thats it for that issue.
 
If you think you are ready to try TID, then I am for it. The extra overlap could help Coco hold down his bounces. It's a lot of wear and tear on the human because at least one of the shots is going to be at a very inconvenient time of day or night, and if you have to stay up testing (which you will at first) you won't get many hours of sleep in a row. I agree that if you have a month off, it's as good a time as any to try it. Are you good at sleeping for 2-3 hours and waking up to an alarm? I ask because I am not - once I'm asleep, I'm asleep.

Let's think about dose... Currently Coco is getting 9 units of Lev a day (plus a bunch of R). Dividing that into 3 shots would give you 3 units per shot, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable starting with that high a dose when we don't know how much overlap it will create. Are you looking to be aggressive - get to lower numbers quickly and then have to back down (lots of testing), or are you looking to start low and work up?

One thing I remember Jojo pointing out is that when you are shooting TID, lots of things are accelerated. Like when we say to wait 6 cycles to make a dose adjustment, with TID 6 cycles is only two days. You would be able to do increases pretty quickly if they are needed.
 
so coco has had tests to rule out any other issue along with the diabetes, is that right?

i wonder what's going on to still be giving him diarrhea. are you saying he's had diarrhea since february? because i would think that alone might make him feel pretty crummy. still might be the high numbers as well, but i wouldn't want to ignore the runny poo because insulin alone won't fix that.

here are a few ideas that i've used or heard people share.

fortiflora - i can't tell from your comment if you have him on that or not. punkin loved it and responded really well to it. so if you haven't used it, you could try it. if you have and there's still a problem, there's other options.

canned pumpkin - not the pie filling, but the straight pumpkin. 1 tsp will provide fiber that helps with both diarrhea and constipation. my kitter didn't like that, but apparently most do.

yogurt - once they've gotten diarrhea their bacteria balance is all off. probiotics in yogurt (plain, natural, no sugar) will help restore the natural flora & fauna to coco's gut. again, punkin didn't like it but most do.

sienne was telling me yesterday about a probiotic that you can give http://www.renewlife.com/ultimate-flora-critical-care-50-billion.html - with this one the dosage would be 1/3 capsule twice a day. she said you can work up to 1/2 capsule 2x a day. i have one brand already at home with the same bacteria, but it's 5 billion total buggies instead of 50 billion. i would assume you could compare ingredients, find something comparable and adjust dose accordingly if you can't find that particular one.

if the poor guy's running, he's probably dehydrated. are you adding water to his food? if not, that's an easy thing to do - i add about 40% water with every meal. can't possibly hurt him and might be good. in my head i think when punkin's numbers are high having added the water is the only thing i could've done to help him not develop ketones.

just some things to add to your day. see if any of it helps. moving to TID and testing you'll be around coco plenty anyway! we love our kitties!
 
Have the poo problems resolved or are they on going?

One thing to consider is what he's eating. Many cats have allergies to beef and fish. If Coco does have a food allergy, you may need to eliminate these flavors and/or try him on a novel protein (e.g., duck or venison). An alternative is a raw diet.

Gabby went through a protracted bout of diarrhea. It ended up taking about a month of her being on Flagyl (metronidazole) along with FortiFlora and another, heavier duty probiotic to get things back to normal. One course of antibiotics didn't do it. There are also several tests that can be run to rule out the gamut of GI problems.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
Have the poo problems resolved or are they on going?

One thing to consider is what he's eating. Many cats have allergies to beef and fish. If Coco does have a food allergy, you may need to eliminate these flavors and/or try him on a novel protein (e.g., duck or venison). An alternative is a raw diet.

Gabby went through a protracted bout of diarrhea. It ended up taking about a month of her being on Flagyl (metronidazole) along with FortiFlora and another, heavier duty probiotic to get things back to normal. One course of antibiotics didn't do it. There are also several tests that can be run to rule out the gamut of GI problems.
Click to expand...

the only flavors of food i can get him to even eat are beef and fish flavors ._. I hope thats not the case lol, or he will not be a happy kitty.. Ill try the fortiflora first before trying to eliminate those flavores.. because he was eating these flavores b4 with no problems.. he only started having the mucky poo since feb, when he was put on clindamycin.. and was eating fish and beef for months b4 that..

it has been ongoing and has not resolved yet :/
 
julie1220 said:
so coco has had tests to rule out any other issue along with the diabetes, is that right?

i wonder what's going on to still be giving him diarrhea. are you saying he's had diarrhea since february? because i would think that alone might make him feel pretty crummy. still might be the high numbers as well, but i wouldn't want to ignore the runny poo because insulin alone won't fix that.

here are a few ideas that i've used or heard people share.

fortiflora - i can't tell from your comment if you have him on that or not. punkin loved it and responded really well to it. so if you haven't used it, you could try it. if you have and there's still a problem, there's other options.

canned pumpkin - not the pie filling, but the straight pumpkin. 1 tsp will provide fiber that helps with both diarrhea and constipation. my kitter didn't like that, but apparently most do.

yogurt - once they've gotten diarrhea their bacteria balance is all off. probiotics in yogurt (plain, natural, no sugar) will help restore the natural flora & fauna to coco's gut. again, punkin didn't like it but most do.

sienne was telling me yesterday about a probiotic that you can give http://www.renewlife.com/ultimate-flora-critical-care-50-billion.html - with this one the dosage would be 1/3 capsule twice a day. she said you can work up to 1/2 capsule 2x a day. i have one brand already at home with the same bacteria, but it's 5 billion total buggies instead of 50 billion. i would assume you could compare ingredients, find something comparable and adjust dose accordingly if you can't find that particular one.

if the poor guy's running, he's probably dehydrated. are you adding water to his food? if not, that's an easy thing to do - i add about 40% water with every meal. can't possibly hurt him and might be good. in my head i think when punkin's numbers are high having added the water is the only thing i could've done to help him not develop ketones.

just some things to add to your day. see if any of it helps. moving to TID and testing you'll be around coco plenty anyway! we love our kitties!
Click to expand...

yeah, he had blood done. all else is ok.. so i dunno.. and it has been since feb. i bet it does make him feel like crap. going to try to get that fortiflora this week to see if that helps with it. my vet just tells me to put him back on the high carb prescription food to clear it up -.- so not rly much help from him..

Ill try the pumpkin for sure sinse thats easy to go get.

i add tons of water to his food, even more so lately because of his poo. he gets almost 60% water, rest food, so im keeping him as hydrated as i can lol.
 
punkin was on clindamycin for 40-50ish days - it's known for giving them diarrhea. i started giving him the fortiflora and it cleared up the diarrhea. i kept giving the fortiflora until the clindamycin was all done and it managed to keep him 90% normal. at least that's a very easy first step to try.
 
Libby and Lucy said:
If you think you are ready to try TID, then I am for it. The extra overlap could help Coco hold down his bounces. It's a lot of wear and tear on the human because at least one of the shots is going to be at a very inconvenient time of day or night, and if you have to stay up testing (which you will at first) you won't get many hours of sleep in a row. I agree that if you have a month off, it's as good a time as any to try it. Are you good at sleeping for 2-3 hours and waking up to an alarm? I ask because I am not - once I'm asleep, I'm asleep.

Let's think about dose... Currently Coco is getting 9 units of Lev a day (plus a bunch of R). Dividing that into 3 shots would give you 3 units per shot, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable starting with that high a dose when we don't know how much overlap it will create. Are you looking to be aggressive - get to lower numbers quickly and then have to back down (lots of testing), or are you looking to start low and work up?

One thing I remember Jojo pointing out is that when you are shooting TID, lots of things are accelerated. Like when we say to wait 6 cycles to make a dose adjustment, with TID 6 cycles is only two days. You would be able to do increases pretty quickly if they are needed.
Click to expand...

I am good with waking up constantly to try this, if need be, i have like 5 alarm clocks already for waking up at certain times for coco. so i dont have to keep resetting the same one xD

I was thinking of starting at 2 units per shot, then building back up if need be to be on the safer side. I would probably wait a lil longer then 6 cycles to raise for coco, becaus ei think i notice him taking to his doses a little later then that alot of times. unless its obviously no where near enough insulin, then 6 would be fine. Buts yeah.. im ready to do this. I have to get this thing under control for him. lol, hes been so patient all these months xD
 
Jazzy has poo problems too, and Jill recently suggested Wysong Chicken Gourmet feline/canine diet. It is 5% carbs and has brown rice. She said she remembers some people with IBD cats using foods with brown rice to help firm up the stools. I haven't had a chance to try the food yet, but if Coco likes chicken maybe he will like it. Now that I'm thinking of it again, maybe I'll try to get some too... Jazzy has HORRIBLE stools. I wonder if that is an acro problem?

About the TID shooting, depending on how aggressive you want to be, I think a dose of 2u or 2.5u TID should work. You'll just want to test a LOT at first, until you get an idea of how the overlap is working for Coco. You'll have to be flexible at first - if you get a preshot you don't feel comfortable shooting, don't shoot, stall and reduce until you figure things out. If you do switch to TID, will you post regularly and keep your SS updated so we can help if needed?
 
julie1220 said:
punkin was on clindamycin for 40-50ish days - it's known for giving them diarrhea. i started giving him the fortiflora and it cleared up the diarrhea. i kept giving the fortiflora until the clindamycin was all done and it managed to keep him 90% normal. at least that's a very easy first step to try.
Click to expand...

do you think he would still have the diarrhea from 4 months ago tho? or should it have been cleared up by now.. Just trying to rule out if it was the antibiotic or maybe its something else..
 
Libby and Lucy said:
Jazzy has poo problems too, and Jill recently suggested Wysong Chicken Gourmet feline/canine diet. It is 5% carbs and has brown rice. She said she remembers some people with IBD cats using foods with brown rice to help firm up the stools. I haven't had a chance to try the food yet, but if Coco likes chicken maybe he will like it. Now that I'm thinking of it again, maybe I'll try to get some too... Jazzy has HORRIBLE stools. I wonder if that is an acro problem?

About the TID shooting, depending on how aggressive you want to be, I think a dose of 2u or 2.5u TID should work. You'll just want to test a LOT at first, until you get an idea of how the overlap is working for Coco. You'll have to be flexible at first - if you get a preshot you don't feel comfortable shooting, don't shoot, stall and reduce until you figure things out. If you do switch to TID, will you post regularly and keep your SS updated so we can help if needed?
Click to expand...

yeah i will post as much as i can. my ss wasnt updated for the past few weeks cuz i couldn't access it, thats all, im usually on my pc daily when my pc isnt in the shop xD lol

he responds beautifully to high carb food also, a tbs or 2 and hes up 100+ pnts. . and he can down 2-3.... 5.5oz cans at a time b4 being full if needed.. lol. but yeah i wanna start at 2u i think :]

Ill look up that food also
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top