7/18 Jill AMPS 210 / +2.5 140 / +3.75 109 /PMPS 186 / +2 167 / +4 153

@Debra and Jill (the cat)

I’d like to address the interpretation of the TR protocol and the increases of late.

Good luck with the increase!
I agree with @Bandit's Mom ....Jill isn't "new to green" so there's no reason to hold the dose longer than 6 cycles.

Let’s look at what the modified TR protocol states on increasing the dose:

Increasing the dose:
  • Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.
    • if your cat is new to numbers under 200, it is recommended to hold the dose for at least 8-10 cycles before increasing.
    • when your cat starts to see nadirs under 100, hold the dose for at least 10 cycles before increasing.
Regarding what I bolded and is in italics, if any cat is new to nadirS under 200, the dose should be held 8-10 cycles but, honestly, most of us with experience will advise holding the dose a full ten, consecutive cycles and that is after the first nadir below 200 assuming there are others. If there is one blue nadir and no more, increase after six cycles and any bounce has cleared.

Regarding the second part that I bolded and did not italicize, this refers to all cats, not just ones new to nadirs under 100. Even if you have been around awhile and your kitty has had several green nadirs on different doses, once a CG sees nadirS under 100, they should hold the dose ten cycles. Period. Not 6, not 8. Ten. Do not chase numbers!!!

I will say there is one caveat and that is for a very, very experienced CG who has tons and tons of data and knows their cat’s onset, nadir, duration, how it responds to food.....the whole deal. That CG, who is likely no longer following TR because they know their cat so well and knows when it needs “tweaks", might very likely raise the dose after 6-8 consecutive cycles where they’ve seen high green nadirs because they know their cat has room to increase the dose. But that person is likely also not asking for advice.

I urge you, Debra, to slow down on the increases and let the doses settle a little bit. I would not raise Jill’s dose every 8 cycles; I’d give her a full ten consecutive cycles on each dose where she’s seeing nadirs below 100.

One of the most experienced members who trained me and was a moderator in the “old days” always said that a cat doesn’t have to be in nadirs of 50-60; 70s and 80s are just fine. The cat’s body does not know the difference between a nadir of 65 and a nadir of 90, for example. The CG does not need to push. I understand you might not like those BGs between 100-200 at night but let the dose settle in and remember that it would not be incorrect to hold her dose even longer than ten cycles with the nadirs she’s getting at least until you start to see a trend upwards.

Questions or thoughts?
 
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I’d like to address the interpretation of the TR protocol and the increases of late.



Let’s look at what the modified TR protocol states on increasing the dose:

Increasing the dose:
  • Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.
    • if your cat is new to numbers under 200, it is recommended to hold the dose for at least 8-10 cycles before increasing.
    • when your cat starts to see nadirs under 100, hold the dose for at least 10 cycles before increasing.
Regarding what I bolded and is in italics, if any cat is new to nadirS under 200, the dose should be held 8-10 cycles but, honestly, most of us with experience will advise holding the dose a full ten, consecutive cycles and that is after the first nadir below 200 assuming there are others. If there is one blue nadir and no more, increase after six cycles and any bounce has cleared.

Regarding the second part that I bolded and did not italicize, this refers to all cats, not just ones new to nadirs under 100. Even if you have been around awhile and your kitty has had several green nadirs on different doses, once a CG sees nadirS under 100, they should hold the dose ten cycles. Period. Not 6, not 8. Ten. Do not chase numbers!!!

I will say there is one caveat and that is for a very, very experienced CG who has tons and tons of data and knows their cat’s onset, nadir, duration, how it responds to food.....the whole deal. That CG, who is likely no longer following TR because they know their cat so well and knows when it needs “tweaks", might very likely raise the dose after 6-8 consecutive cycles where they’ve seen high green nadirs because they know their cat has room to increase the dose. But that person is likely also not asking for advice.

I urge you, Debra, to slow down on the increases and let the doses settle a little bit. I would not raise Jill’s dose every 8 cycles; I’d give her a full ten consecutive cycles on each dose where she’s seeing nadirs below 100.

One of the most experienced members who trained me and was a moderator in the “old days” always said that a cat doesn’t have to be in nadirs of 50-60; 70s and 80s are just fine. The cat’s body does not know the difference between a nadir of 65 and a nadir of 90, for example. The CG does not need to push. I understand you might not like those BGs between 100-200 at night but let the dose settle in and remember that it would not be incorrect to hold her dose even longer than ten cycles with the nadirs she’s getting at least until you start to see a trend upwards.

Questions or thoughts?
Thank you, this is really helpful. So if I see a green, hold for 10 cycles. I usually get a green somewhere. I know increasing too soon could make numbers go too low but what are some other things that could happen? Did I increase too quickly this time and am getting slightly higher numbers now?
 
Note that Marje said nadirS under 100, not just a single green, to hold for 10 cycles.

As for numbers you are seeing now, probably some New Dose Wonkiness.
 
Note that Marje said nadirS under 100, not just a single green, to hold for 10 cycles.

As for numbers you are seeing now, probably some New Dose Wonkiness.
Ok, yes. Nadirs-plural.
So when I get one green, I wait how long until increase (if I don’t see another)? Is 6 cycles after the first green enough time to wait for an increase if there are not other greens?
 
Ok, yes. Nadirs-plural.
So when I get one green, I wait how long until increase (if I don’t see another)? Is 6 cycles after the first green enough time to wait for an increase if there are not other greens?
You would hold the dose ten cycles minimum from the time you get the first green nadir if you see subsequent ones in the next few cycles. If you get one green and she bounces, let the bounce clear and if she doesn’t come to green again, increase. If you see green and she doesn’t bounce but she trends up and doesn’t see more green in the next few cycles, increase. Patience is the name of the game.
 
You would hold the dose ten cycles minimum from the time you get the first green nadir if you see subsequent ones in the next few cycles. If you get one green and she bounces, let the bounce clear and if she doesn’t come to green again, increase. If you see green and she doesn’t bounce but she trends up and doesn’t see more green in the next few cycles, increase. Patience is the name of the game.
How do I know of she’s bouncing or just being wonky?
 
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