7/18 Harley PMPS 480-What am I doing WRONG

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Harley and Pattie

Harley and Pattie

Member Since 2010
Well, vacation is over and he is back up to 333 amps. I think it is because he eats everything here and not while being boarded.

The problem is, when I get up at 4am, he is crying for food. I give him a quick "snack" then but nothing until shot at 5:45. By that time, his bg is up to the 300's. I have read that food should not be given 2 hours before shooting but what do I do when he cries so much?

Pattie
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Re: 7-18-10 Harley AMPS 333-vacation over

I was wondering if you could explain why the different dose at nite? According to the protocol, it is quite important to stay on the same dose due to the shed, and any changes are disruptive.

If every am shot is 6.5u but every pm shot is only 6.0u, I think you are going to have some issues.
Wouldn't that sort of frequent change cause perpetual NDW?

When you increase dose, the extra goes to the shed, to top it up, and not to Harley, so the BG numbers may go up - NDW.
Then when you decrease dose, the shed has to dump any excess, and so again you would see some NDW.

What dose was given while you were on vacation and did they record the BG numbers for you?

Another thing i wondered was about the fairly high dose - have you considered if there is any insulin resistance? You could consider testing for resistance.
 
Re: 7-18-10 Harley AMPS 333-vacation over

Harley has had a hard time with his diabetes. He has IBD, is very prone to ketones, and had DKA twice when he was first diagnosed. I take him to the U of MN and in March, they decided that he should go on the different doses. Their logic was, he is more active and eats more during the day so he needed more insulin.

In all the posts that I have done, people have told me about keeping the dose the same. I was going on vacation and did not want to change it before I left (can’t tell you a good reason for that).

When I left him at the U last week, I left instructions to give 6.5 am & pm, that way, they could watch him better than I could. He will continue to get the 6.5 both am & pm now at home. Last night, I gave only 6 because of the lower bg and I did not want him to bottom out during the night.

Need to confess that I did not have them check bg often. The charge for boarding him was expensive enough. The ones that they did (Monday 359, Wednesday 250). Do not know if they were am or pm.
My poor baby has had so many tests and ultrasounds. The vets do think that he may be insulin resistive but all the test (and he has had just about everything) have come back negative or normal. He was tested for a pituitary gland tumor, but again, it came back normal. The only test that was not normal was the biopsy of the intestine which indicated IBD.

So, I am now on board with using the same dose am & pm and am anxious to see the results. The vet also wants him to lose a little weight so I am slowly decreasing his food.

Pattie
 
Re: 7-18-10 Harley AMPS 333-vacation over

Thanks Patti,
I feel so badly about all of Harley's issues, but I had to ask about keeping the dose the same because of the shed. I am sure if you give it a try for a few days and catch a few more tests to see how it's going, you may see a bit more balance and Harley may feel a bit better.
For the morning hunger thing, you can always use an auto feeder and that way, you can sleep but Harley can have a wee bit of a snack at 3am or something and not disrupt you or the 2hrs prior to shot feed time. I know that it does not take to much to hold them for a bit; I also give Oliver some small chunks of raw chicken when I first get up, just to hold him to his 6am test/shoot/feed time.

You said that Harley was tested for resistance; can you confirm the tests that were done and get copies of the results? Just to confirm the two tests: acro & IAA:
IAA Test
IGF-1 (Acro) Test
Ask your vet for the results, even just the numbers that came back, so that you know for sure what has been ruled out.
For the IAA test, under 20 is negative.
For the Acro test, normal range is between 12-92, so anything above is considered a positive.

I think another issue is cushings, but I never had that test done for either of mine.
I don't know much about your Harley's issues to say if that's a test needed or not.

Anyways, I hope the same dose each shot helps a bit to settle his shed and get some decent numbers.
Maybe now that you are home again, Harley will feel better and give you some better numbers.
 
Re: 7-18-10 Harley AMPS 333-vacation over

Chances are if they ruled out a pituitary tumor, it was to test for Cushings.

I'm glad you're going to keep the doses consistent. I think Gayle's suggestion of a feeder may help. I set mine for around +8/+9 so Gabby gets a snack late in the cycle with the idea that a little bit of food well in advance of pre-shot, may help to drop her BG providing her pancreas kicks in.

If you're concerned that food is raising numbers, you might want to consider several small meals spread out over the cycle if you're not already doing this.
 
Re: 7-18-10 Harley AMPS 333-vacation over

Here's the feeder I use, and it gives me peace of mind for a couple reasons:
Shadoe has her food available through the day.
Oliver can't possibly eat every section on her!

Petsafe 5-meal Auto Feeder

There are others, but this one is great because you can set the times for meals and snacks for all the time you are away each day. If you wanted, you could set one of the times for the middle of the nite and just plop in some foods before you head to sleep.
 
What is going wrong? I did a curve today - it's on the ss. +9 227, gave him some raw chicken at +11 - now its 480 and 3 minutes later 444. With all the sad things I have read since returning from vacation, I feel like I am killing him.

He is now crying for food and I am afraid to feed him - HELP!

What is going on???

Pattie
 
(((Pattie))) You are doing everything under your control for your sweet kitty. I'm not the expert, but I think these swings are part of the sugar dance, and Harley (and his pancreas and liver) are leading. All you can do is treat it well, and dose responsibly according to protocol and med advice. You are doing all of that.

Just a little confession... we used to give Kitty a snack at 1 3/4 hrs before shot in the morning. That's when DH was up, and snacks 2 hrs before shot are fine. I don't have the sense that it altereed the course of Kitty's treatment at all.
 
((Pattie))

You're not killing Harley! He bounced from the blue.

The difference in the numbers you got over a 3 min. time span is meter variance. Any measurement has an inherent amount of error. BG meters typically have between 10 - 20% variance. You can't get upset when you catch a difference like that. (On the other hand, if you got a reading of 105 and retested, you might get a reading of 95 in a few minutes. It's a great way to see green!)

His numbers will come down with his insulin. Feed the hungry boy!
 
This is a case of maternal freaking out.... it's ok! Perfectly normal... the drama queen award has been issued to me before....

I agree with Sienne that Harley is bouncing from the blue.... Tonight... don't look at the number.... look at the cat. How is Harley? we know that he is hungry... diabetes will do that. The reason we say not to feed in the 2 hours before shot time is so you don't shoot an inflated number. When the cat is 300, what's 350! the difference between 60 and 40 IS more significant. Don't give yourself an ulcer over it. If you have to feed at +11 while you gain back some sanity.... so be it. Just don't over do it.

Tomorrow is another day... you will be okay.
 
UGH before mine were regulated, they ate like maniacs, like they were always starving.
The reason is that their bodies were not able to process the foods properly to get the nutrients they needed. So they were always feeling hungry I guess.

Shadoe was eating over 20oz of food a day, and now, if she eats 5oz or so, that's alot.
Oliver's a wee bit different; he was eating closer to 30oz a day, and that's not counting his raw chicken treats. I am now cutting him down and he is seeming very happy with closer to 18.5oz or so.

Now, as for the bounce, it sometimes takes kitty awhile to get used to the 'right' numbers. If Harley has had high numbers for a long time, I bet he got used to the 'wrong' numbers being the 'right' numbers. Now, you are giving insulin and he's heading to the right numbers, but they feel wrong. He's not used to the blues, so it's like a polar bear swim ... you stick your toe in the water and it's FREEZING, so you run back up the beach as that water's just too cold.
The next time you stick your toe in, it's not as much of a shock, is it.
Some people will talk about liver training school; it's just got to get used to the right numbers again.

You are not doing anything wrong and Harley is very lucky to have you taking such good care.
 
I think of it as like a pendulum - at first you get low in the middle and high on the sides (preshots) - but as time goes on, the pendulum stops swinging so high and just swings gently in the lower numbers... it just takes time... even though it's hard to watch - this is how the process often works...
 
Hi Patti: You will get there. It is difficult to see high numbers but it does fall into place. Shooting consistently is one big factor and feeding also helps. Look at Tuffy's SS. She was terrible with her ups and downs. And, due to this board, she is otj. Patience, Breathe. It will work out. It's not you, its the diabetes and training Harley's liver.
 
Patti you are me 7 weeks ago !!!...Today we just did a curve and we stayed green all day be brave. Breath and keep sticking that toe into the water ..Gayle told me that and I forget who gave me an award for too much gravy I think..I had a lot of panic attacks Oh yes I would move my shot time and then one day I got the big( slap) Don`t do this also a big scare ....We stick with the same shot time and dose unless we are told difference and it works Just look at Treys ss This is all due to the good Angels here in LL Promise they are that good Happy testing it is what this is all about more data more OTJ kitties Kath :lol: :cool: ;-) :smile: :mrgreen:


Prayers and Angels coming to help you Breath...and get Harley in the green
 
Pattie, you're doing great. It's tough to feel out of control numbers-wise, but the wise people here (not referring to my rookie-self!) will guide you. Just keep being a good mama to Harley and reporting numbers and celebrating little steps forward.

I totally understand not wanting to change things up before vacation. We just went away for a week and I was a nervous wreck about leaving Johnny with cat sitters. There's enough going on that you don't need to add to it by changing things up. Now that you're back, I hope you can find a dose that can be morning and evening.

Keep your chin up! :smile:
 
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