7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341...

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Dale 'n' Chip

Dale 'n' Chip

Member Since 2012
I promise I won't do this often (this type of condo) but on day three of 0.5U Levemir these numbers are flat pink and (were) barely budging. nailbite_smile

What do "those with more experience" think is going on here? Does Did he just have a lot of albumin to saturate with Levemir?

PMPS 395
+4 393
+6 354
+8 344

AMPS 323
+3 341
+5 321
+7 362
+9 264
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

Just as soon as I got a condo posted Chip must have read it because after 57 solid hours of flat pink/red he finally dipped to yellow. :smile:
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

That was a good catch! I noticed with Levemir that Boo's cycle shifted later, so often got better numbers later than I ever got before. It's definitely a move in the right direction!

Hang in there you two. Patience is not my specialty ;-) , but I can say with a reddened face, that it's served us much better lately than my usual haste :? :?
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

So glad to see that yellow! May Chip's numbers just keep improving now!

Suze
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

His body is still figuring it out, but I think you can safely increase to .75u because there are no big drops happening. Beau had a significant response to the first shot. Others within the first three shots. I am not seeing that here.

You are testing for ketones, right?

Welcome to lev, Chip. I hope you like it.
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

0.75U it is.

Has anyone ever figured out unit for unit how the potency of Levemir compares to Lantus? I know every cat may be different but have there been any trends?

And what does this from Rand mean?
NB Mean median maximum dose in cats on detemir is about 30% less than for glargine (1.7 U/cat
BID; range 0.5 to 4.0 IU versus 2.5 U/cat BID; range 1.0 to 9.0 IU BID).
Click to expand...
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

NB Mean median maximum dose in cats on detemir is about 30% less than for glargine (1.7 U/cat
BID; range 0.5 to 4.0 IU versus 2.5 U/cat BID; range 1.0 to 9.0 IU BID).
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like:

Levemir, median maximum dose = 1.7U twice a day, where the range of those in the study spanned from 0.5U to 4.0U twice a day.
Lantus, median maximum dose = 2.5U twice a day, where the range of those in the study spanned from 1.0U to 9.0U twice a day.


Wow, that is significant if you consider that the cost of Lantus and Levemir are approximately the same. So Levemir could cost you about 30% less than Lantus over time as well.

Suze
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

I looked at Sneakers- she really only had a 70pt difference on her first days of lev- some of those where in the yellows but not a huge drastic drop.

I think I should have retested the blue as it probably wasn't accurate but at 3 in the morning I don't think that fast on my sleepy feet :lol: .

Good to see the yellow in there I am sure there are many more to come (and those elusive blues!)
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

He seems to be getting a modest drop perhaps around +9 at this point.

I suspect he may need a higher dose until he works down some of the temporary resistance. That's why I wondered if there is any practical comparison of the potency between detemir and glargine in everyday (sugar) cats.
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

Hi Dale -

Don't think I've posted on your threads before. I'm Lu-Ann. Grayson's only been on Lev since the last of May, and we started at half his ProZinc dose. When we finally got up to the same approx dose in Lev, I started seeing some better numbers. Patience isn't one of my strong suits either, but it seems to pay off over here!

Don't be startled if you see Grayson's doses - he's Acro AND insulin resistant, so I've tried very hard to keep seeing movement...and that corresponds to REALLY HIGH doses. So the comparison from the study you quoted, and the translations (THANK YOU!!!) made me feel good about my decision to use Lev, when offered either! These pens dry up pretty quick when you're pumping gallons into them!!! Hopefully it'll work to his benefit in the long run.

Give Chip a little time to transition before you expect great numbers, but from what I've seen, and others here as well, it's just around the corner!!!

Lu-Ann
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

Grayson & Lu said:
...Give Chip a little time to transition before you expect great numbers, but from what I've seen, and others here as well, it's just around the corner!!!

Lu-Ann
Click to expand...
Must be getting closer. :-D

He was +12 and still falling but I shot the full dose since he was mid yellow. This does take a lot longer to see action than Lantus. But the more even dispersion should be a big plus in the long run.

Good luck on your procedure for Grayson. We'll be watching for updates.
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

That looks good, Dale. This might be a dose to give a longer settle time too - but really, it's too soon to tell. His PS tonight is at the same place it was for that nice day on lantus at 1.5u. (the 6th).

According to the 70% "rule" he should be at about 1u of lev to get the same results - well, same nadirs. We are hoping to NOT repeat the bouncing.

Can I make a suggestion on your SS? Insert a row above the day you started lev, merge the cells on the am side and write a note about starting lev below. When I open your SS, the notes are off the screen on the right.
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

Sheila & Beau & Jeddie (GA) said:
Can I make a suggestion on your SS? Insert a row above the day you started lev, merge the cells on the am side and write a note about starting lev below. When I open your SS, the notes are off the screen on the right.
Click to expand...
There's a temporary fix for you. DETEMIR day is World Tesla Day. ;-)

I'll get the to the excel tricks later, when I can do it without risking the SS.

BTW he is liking Levemir so far. Despite the numbers his mood seems to be noticeably better.
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

Good to see that Chip had a yellow PS last night!

RE: the spreadsheet -- in order to not "mess it up", you can download a backup copy (which I do regularly, even though some of the formatting is lost in the process, because I don't want to lose any of this data for any reason, including Google glitches), or you can make a duplicate right within Google Docs, so you can revert to the duplicate if you mess anything up. Also, it looks like you opted to "publish to the web" instead of uploading initially as a SS, and that's why your header columns aren't frozen in place, which makes it harder for people to see the +3/+6/+8 etc. It just makes it easier to see the headers instead of having to tick over and count what time the readings took place, IMHO.

Suze
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

Dale 'n' Chip said:
BTW he is liking Levemir so far. Despite the numbers his mood seems to be noticeably better.
Click to expand...

This is what I was talking about with Boo. I think his outer self showed signs of improvement before his numbers necessarily did. Interesting isn't it? We're programmed to want the analytical proof even if we're seeing other noticeable changes.... ;-) ;-)
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

Oh, didn't know you are working on an excel SS. I would say, save a copy ('Save As' and rename it), then make the change to the copy. Should be fairly easy to insert a row above where you put your cursor.
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

Sheila & Beau & Jeddie (GA) said:
Oh, didn't know you are working on an excel SS. I would say, save a copy ('Save As' and rename it), then make the change to the copy. Should be fairly easy to insert a row above where you put your cursor.
Click to expand...
It's google docs so I'm not sure what it really is, but it seems to be browser dependent. I did download several backup *states* and made a live google copy so lots to play with there. I sized it for widescreen resolution and it looks the same on every computer/display I've tried, but they are all widescreen HD resolution. Are you Mac or PC? ipad or smartphone?

Of course you don't have to answer any of those personal (partisan) questions if you'd rather not. ;-)
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

Jessica & Boo Radley said:
This is what I was talking about with Boo. I think his outer self showed signs of improvement before his numbers necessarily did. Interesting isn't it? We're programmed to want the analytical proof even if we're seeing other noticeable changes.... ;-) ;-)
Click to expand...
Something is up. :thumbup

On day one I thought I saw a whole new cat. Gotta be cautious with such observations, a few weeks ago I said somewhere I noticed he didn't purr much anymore. Almost like he was depressed or sad. Something different than lethargic or lacking energy. Then he went through a period where he was warm and fuzzy (purring loudly) every evening, like his moods were variable. But after starting Levemir he seems like his old self again, doing things and hanging out in places he hadn't in a while.

It's still early, so we will see what he is like when his numbers are consistently lower. But the clincher may have been today, day 5, when I saw something I though I'd never see again. Chip may be regaining the confidence to reclaim his role as head of the colony. He's still the largest cat so it's just a matter of him feeling up to it.

BTW everyone is fixed so there's seldom fighting. But to establish status, two in question will stand their ground and stare each other down until one backs off. Once that's established it's back to snuggles, grooming each other and one big happy family. And all are related by blood in some way, so there are no outsiders.

But it is interesting that the particular insulin may have that kind of effect. Heather said here somewhere that Lantus may make some kitties moody. :shock:
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

Dale 'n' Chip said:
Heather said here somewhere that Lantus may make some kitties moody.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's the Lantus or the high numbers, in Pumbaa's case. Very early on, on Friday April 13th, Pumbaa and Larry really got into it. That was first, and they had been buddies for over 7 years. Pumbaa had been on Lantus for two days at that point. There has been one other skirmish since then, but not anywhere near as bad as April 13th. I just attributed it to Pumbaa not feeling good during his high numbers, 'cause when he's high, he just wants to be left alone, by everyone.

Suze
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

I'm sure I missed this 1000X.....but before the switch, was Chip on Lantus? The reason I ask is because I was noticing you test at +3 and this is something I ALWAYS did on Lantus. It was where I would begin to see movement. I've abandoned this test now that I have a feeling for Levemir. Our nadirs are much later, and I noticed that onset for us was around +4. The old +3 check time was maddening because he was always higher!
 
Re: 7/12 Chip PMPS 395 +4 393 +6 354 +8 344 AMPS 323 +3 341.

By +4 Grayson is usually about 25% less than preshot... USUALLY. But he's also been significantly higher. No rhyme or reason here. On Prozinc, the food spike was about +2, but it too had an earlier onset, so I agree about the +3... save the test strips for when he's really moving.
 
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