6/8 & 6/9 with a dose increase He did not make it past +9!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Simon'sMommy

Very Active Member
Simon's BG was back up to 344 today. He has not been under 300 in a long time on the pre shots. So, armed with my hypo kit and determined to get my baby into the right numbers, I have increased him my another .25 dose. Admittedly, because I am nervous, it is a skinny one (barely over where I was giving him 2.5) but nonetheless, it is an increase. Here is to hoping he stays out of the low numbers. I just need to get him to last the full 12 hours on the insulin. If this does not work in several cycles, I am going to try the opposite direction and go down.


Wish us luck! nailbite_smile :?
 
Re: Sat 6/8 and Sun 6/9 Simon AMPS - Dose increase!

bcatrun_gif
Sending good wishes and sweet purr's your way today!
 
Re: Sat 6/8 and Sun 6/9 Simon AMPS 344 - Dose increase!

Looking good, Joyce. I'd expect a bounce at the end - that nadir is right on time and lower than he is used to.
 
Re: Sat 6/8 and Sun 6/9 Simon AMPS 344 - Dose increase!

I figured that he will probably be back where he started from or there about at PMPS, but thrilled with his numbers during the day. He is eating well, alert, playing, preening and telling me to stop bugging him. He is hiding in the other room right now curled up and taking a snooze cat_pet_icon
 
Re: Sat 6/8 and Sun 6/9 Simon AMPS 344 - Dose increase!

AMPS 344
+2 249
+4 120 :-D
+6 77 :mrgreen: :-D
+8 151 :-D ;-)
+11 305 :roll: not surprised though
 
Re: Sat 6/8 and Sun 6/9 Simon AMPS 344 - Dose increase!

Looks like Simon had a pretty good day! Im happy for the both of you!
\M/
 
Re: Sat 6/8 and Sun 6/9 Simon AMPS 344 - Dose increase!

Yeah Simon on that 77 at +6! good going ! :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT
 
Re: Sat 6/8 and Sun 6/9 Simon AMPS 344 - Dose increase!

AMPS 344
+2 249
+4 120 :-D
+6 77 :mrgreen: :-D
+8 151 :-D ;-)
+11 305
PMPS 315 (at least it did not spike really high at the end!)
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 Simon AMPS 344 AMPS 378- Sun. Dose Increase!

Big drop - near 50%. I'd give him some regular low carb food to even out the drop?
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 Simon AMPS 344 AMPS 378- Sun. Dose Increase!

Sue, Simon free feeds and he has been eating all morning - a few bites here, a few bites there. Just his way...

+ 4 - 120
Now making sure he is eating by giving it to him in my hand. FF is cold wet and yukky in your hand, but he likes it that way ;-)
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 Simon AMPS 344 AMPS 378- Sun. Dose Increase!

The things we do for our kitty! :lol:
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 Simon AMPS 344 AMPS 378- Sun. Dose Increase!

Think of it as a skin treatment for your hands! Mmmm.
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 Simon AMPS 344 AMPS 378- Sun. Dose Increase!

AMPS 378
+3 191
+4 120
+6 102 :smile: Was hoping for green, but close enough! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 Simon AMPS 344 AMPS 378- Sun. Dose Increase!

AMPS 378
+3 191
+4 120
+6 102 :smile: Was hoping for green, but close enough! :mrgreen:
+9 333 Boing! :-Q grumpy_cat
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 Simon AMPS 344 AMPS 378- Sun. Dose Increase!

AMPS 378
+3 191
+4 120
+6 102 :smile: Was hoping for green, but close enough! :mrgreen:
+9 333 Boing! :-Q grumpy_cat
PMPS 332 :YMSIGH:
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 Simon AMPS 344 AMPS 378- Sun. Dose Increase!

He bounced at +9...sheesh. He is just one of those cats that does not get 12 hours (or 11 even) out of a dose. I am thinking a few more weeks and then trying to convince my vet he should go to Lantus or Levemir, even though we are not home enough to test a lot. Is that doable? Do you have to be home to use this insulin so you can test at all hours? Is it possible to use this insulin when you work full time outside of the home? confused_cat
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 with a dose increase He did not make it past +

Yes, people do manage to use Lantus and Levimir even with full time jobs. They may not test as much as people that are home all day. The TR protocol does not require you to test more than the SLGS protocol. Here is something Marje and Gracie sent to me in a PM. Thought I would share it with you.

One thing that we've been trying to stress to people because it is a huge misconcept. (And I don't know that either of you have ever said this.....it just seems to be some weird myth). TR does NOT require that people test more than the SLGS Approach. While many of us in the TR forum DO test more, it is our choice. It is so we can be more on top of when a dose might need to be adjusted, etc. or we just know our cats and know when they need to be tested. BUT....testing requirements are the same: PS and a spot check during the day cycle, PS and a before bed at night. Will they need to test more if kitty is running low? yes....but that has nothing to do with the method of regulation used.
That spot check may be an out the door check. Or a check when you get home. You may be able to do those nadir checks on the weekends when you around more. You may need to set the alarm to get a few night time tests to check the nadirs at night.

There are even people that have done variations on the 12/12 dosing schedule with Lantus and Levimir.

Maybe, you want to go over to the Lantus Tight Regulation forum and do some more reading. Start with the Stickies at the top of the topics. Read a few condos. Maybe post your own topic over in the TR forum.
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 with a dose increase He did not make it past +

Thanks Deb. Have been over there reading tonight. I guess when we get low on this bottle of ProZinc, I might just try to convince the vet to give him Levemir (heard that lantus stings!) to try to see if we can keep poor Simon out of those dang pink numbers he is so fond of. It seems he goes plenty low on ProZinc, but he just can't hang on to it long enough. I realize now that if I keep raising his dose, that makes no sense since he DOES respond well to the insulin and gets some great numbers. He just can't hold them for 12 hours...or even 10!
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 with a dose increase He did not make it past +

Some of that will improve with time. Cass had very short cycles.w/ a skyrocket at the end when we started. We dosed tid for a while (not recommending-your cycle.is long enough I don't think tid is an option), but his cycle lengthened with time.
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 with a dose increase He did not make it past +

Well poo! He was doing sooo good right up until the big bounce at 9+~ flip_cat
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 with a dose increase He did not make it past +

The length of this cycle has nothing to do with the insulin type. In other words, the same thing happens with Lantus or Lev. It isn't that he only got 9 hours on the dose. The insulin didn't wear off. If this was a bounce, and I think it was, the glucose released by his liver just overpowered whatever insulin was still working.
Bounces can happen at any time during a cycle, and make the BG rise hundreds of points within minutes, no matter which insulin or the size of a dose.
Bounces are supposed to happen. It's instinctive and you can't avoid them. They also show you that the cat's system is functioning properly, the self-defense mechanism is working. They actually can save a cat's life if you don't happen to be around to monitor, feed, and catch it on the meter when they drop too fast or too far. They are actually a "good thing", but not too many people seem to think that way.

Bottom line. This dose gave him two good cycles and one good bounce. I'm surprised he didn't bounce from the low during the AM cycle actually.

You can discuss an insulin switch with your vet for sure.

I just want to mention that switching to an "L" is not going to make it any less likely that a cat will bounce. Look at any SS in the TR forum and you can see that easily. I haven't seen a kitty in two years that doesn't bounce. On any insulin.
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 with a dose increase He did not make it past +

Also to add to what Lisa said about the length of a cycle. In the study done that concluded that Prozinc was a suitable replacement for the old PZI it replaced when it was discontinued, the longer the cats were on Prozinc, the later they reached nadir and the longer the duration of the insulin. Apparently, that's"normal".
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 with a dose increase He did not make it past +

Carl, I appreciate this information very much. I am just being impatient :roll: and need to wait a while to see how Simon does on ProZinc. He got a great cycle in the morning on Saturday before his PMPS went pink and I finally saw his nadir at +6 instead of +4.5 or +5 where it has been. I will stop being so impatient and see how he does. I know that I am just worried that his clock for remission is ticking as I know the faster it happens, the better.

I have seen so many cats only have to take insulin for a month or less and it has already been a little over a month for Simon and we still have those high pink pre-shot numbers. Also, I am really worried most about organ damage and neuropathy.

Every time he walks I watch his back legs and imagine they look different than they used to or when he jumps, if he meows, I worry. He is going to be 10 years old next month. I guess it is normal aging to have some stiffness although many cats live double that. We shall see how he does. Thanks again for talking some sense into me. I am glad that his pancreas is doing what it is supposed to do when it feels low numbers. I know that is the right response for him right now. :oops: :oops:
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 with a dose increase He did not make it past +

Our vet wants to switch Ebby to Lantus, so we will be doing so in a few days. I can let you know how that goes for us. I do expect she will still show similar bounces, but he just wants to try and see if we can flatten out the cycle some. It does feel like we're backtracking a little by switching, but figure it's worth a try.
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 with a dose increase He did not make it past +

I am not sure if this will help with the bounces but we switched from PZI to Lantus and Loki still does his tigger impression at times but not as much, feel free to take a look at his ss and you can see it.
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 with a dose increase He did not make it past +

Our vet wants to switch Ebby to Lantus, so we will be doing so in a few days. I can let you know how that goes for us. I do expect she will still show similar bounces, but he just wants to try and see if we can flatten out the cycle some. It does feel like we're backtracking a little by switching, but figure it's worth a try.
In general, if the dose of Lantus is "right", you'd see flatter cycles than you would with Prozinc.

The really important difference between the two insulin types is this:

With Lantus, the primary number you evaluate is the nadir number (rather than the preshot number). It is the nadir that indicates how well the dose is working, and that number determines if a dose increase or decrease is advisable. From "watching" several cats in the past two years switch from a "P" to an "L" insulin, that major difference seems to be the one thing that people switching to Lantus or Levemir need to "grasp".

As the diabetes improves, Lantus users also need to "get" that shots are still recommended when the preshot test numbers are "low". and people often will give shots on a BG value that is within the "normal" BG range. For instance, it is not rare to see a Lantus cat get a full normal dose of insulin when the preshot test gives you a 100 on the meter. But that only comes with plenty of data on your spreadsheet that shows you that it would be okay to give insulin on a number that low. Nobody suggests you do so without that data to base their advice upon. By contrast, you would be hard pressed to find someone well versed with Prozinc telling you to shoot on a preshot BG of 100. And that goes back to my first statement - in general, if the dose is right, as the condition improves, you would expect flatter 12 hour curves on Lantus.

But all cats bounce, on every type of insulin. Until they don't.
 
Re: 6/8 & 6/9 with a dose increase He did not make it past +

Thanks Carl. Your posts are always filled with great information. I appreciate it~!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top