6/7 Pumbaa AMPS/352

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Pumbaa

Pumbaa

Member Since 2012
Been really busy with some rush jobs for a client, as well as regularly chasing Pumbaa around the house to get him tested. He's decided that he's tired of being poked, and now thinks it's a game to make me chase him all over, and try to get him out from under a bed, etc., at testing time. :roll: I can't say that I blame him...I have to test him so often since I still can't predict when he's going to dive.

Yesterday's numbers were depressing. A big old red 446 to start the morning. 169 was the lowest reading I took. I thought he was clearing bounces faster than ever before, and that we'd never see a red number again...but I was wrong. Being very patient here. I don't want to increase his dose due to the low numbers he does get at nadir frequently on this dose. I'm being optimistic that he's going to settle down in the next 24 hours.

Suze
 
If you look at the big picture, it still looks good overall. :smile:

What to do about the bouncing is always the question. Trying something unorthodox with Chip for the moment in the Levimir ISG and we are both liking it better for the time being. I can actually leave the house for an (hour?) without much concern.

But we shall see what it yields.
 
Have you tried waiting a little (maybe 15-30 minutes) after he eats to give the insulin? That would give the carbs a bit of time to get in the system before the insulin kicks in. Sort of an intentional food spike to offset the dive.
 
BJ: I'm going to have to remember to do that. It will be more difficult because I am able to distract him while he's eating to give his shot. He is Mr. WiggleButt, you know. *LOL* Thank you for reminding me about this. I know you've suggested it before.

While I'm worried about the dives, right this minute I'm much more concerned with the $#!*'ing red numbers again. After several wonderful days of more even blue and green days, why are we bouncing back into the reds again? I could handle the bounces into yellow, and even an occasional pink, but why is he going back up into the 400's again?

*sigh*

More later...on a deadline. And thank you for the encouragement, Dale & Dale. :)

Suze
 
Hey suze I notice in your ketone column back on 4/15 and 4/16 you had "5" was that a trace of ketones?

Didn't notice anything in the notes. What was the story with that?
 
Dale: Yes, when Pumbaa was diagnosed, he had a trace of ketones. The 5 is 5 mg/dl, or trace. But he's been negative on ketones ever since.

Suze
 
So that just cleared in a few days? I thought I saw a hint of pink for Chip but it might be my imagination. I need some sleep. :roll:

This wasn't pink enough to be trace. Was yours clearly the color of trace? Have you ever seen any other hint of pink?
 
It could be your imagination, or you could be reading the strip too late. I count off the fifteen seconds while I have the strip next to the results colors on the bottle. If you wait more than 15 seconds, the test strip does start getting darker. Also, originally, I was storing the test strips in the bathroom, but it's not good to store them anywhere around humidity, like a shower.

Hopefully it is your imagination!

Suze
 
Pumbaa said:
...Hopefully it is your imagination, especially since you work so hard keeping Max hydrated.

Suze
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Actually PappaDale and Chip. Don't we all need some sleep. :mrgreen:

Technically it's negative since it didn't match trace and I tried two strips just to be sure.

I was probably imagining I saw a hint of pink. Ah the joys of Lantus!
 
Hahahaha! You caught me before I corrected my mistake, Chippendale.

These strips aren't exactly a fool proof way of testing. Not only having to read them at exactly 15 seconds, but the fact that the ink printed on the bottle can fade over time.
 
Welll thanks for the prompt reply, with all you have going on there as well.

And you did know that it's Thomas Chippendale right?

But when you got those trace readings did you tell the vet about it? I noticed it was negative before that, with higher numbers. At the time of those two trace readings the numbers weren't all that bad. So you didn't do anything special, or was that why you raised the dose to 1.25? I read about more cases of false positives such as a diet too low in carbs or too much physical activity, or even bacterial contamination.

I always enjoy reading your detailed logs, it kind of makes me feel like I'm not the only one *crazy* enough to be doing this. Pumbaa is just really lucky you are on the case.

BTW I did try to *hydrate* Chip and he was sure the Mr. Wiggle Butt. I can see what MammaDale was talking about when they don't cooperate for SubQ.
 
Chippendale:

I did not know that it was "Thomas Chippendale". I just picture you doing a striptease to try and entice Chip to succumb to more pokes. :oops:

No, I did not report the trace readings to the vet as he had tested positive for ketones during his FD diagnosis, and I figured that he was still not absorbing all of his nutritional needs from his food that early in the treatment with insulin. And I only raised his dose based on his BG numbers, not based on the ketones. I know a lot of people say to take your cat to the vet if the ketones test shows up with a even a trace, but I just don't think these strips are that accurate. Have you repeated the test with Chip, and is he now negative?

Glad you like my details. Hope you get a chuckle over them. *LOL* I helps me to be detailed as then I can go back and see what changed, what was happening, etc., when I try to make some sense of Pumbaa's numbers. Since they never make sense! No, you're not crazy for being detailed, and neither is anyone else. When someone looks at Pumbaa's SS, I want them to get the whole picture, as well.

Sorry to hear that Chip is also Mr. Wiggle Butt at times. I'm just shocked, and so is my vet, that Pumbaa lets me do so much stuff to him now. This is the cat that bit me hard enough at the vet visit 2 months ago that I had to go to Urgent Care and get a tetanus shot and antibiotics, make an animal bite report, deal with animal control, and have Pumbaa under house arrest (instead of in quarantine) for 10 days. *LOL*

Suze
 
:lol: Suze, Pumbba is being gentle with you now!
Is he doing better with his numbers this wk?
 
Helen, no, Pumbaa has me totally perplexed. As Rosy does with you at times. :( I still can't predict a dive, so try to test him every 3 hours, if I can stay awake or wake up to my phone alarm.
 
Pumbaa said:
...This is the cat that bit me hard enough at the vet visit 2 months ago that I had to go to Urgent Care and get a tetanus shot and antibiotics, make an animal bite report, deal with animal control, and have Pumbaa under house arrest (instead of in quarantine) for 10 days. *LOL*

Suze
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Crazy... was the house arrest until they could prove he had his rabies shot?

We are lucky they cooperate when push comes to shove. Still maybe I'd rather have the green surf problem than the ugly red and pink toads and possibly bordering on ketones. Until the white knuckle green surf turns into the pink/red/black rebound toad. :evil:

We don't have all that much to complain about but still I wonder how long this can go on. :-|
 
Yes, the "house arrest" was due to the fact that he has always been an indoors-only cat, and to make sure he didn't die from rabies.

I'm seriously considering switching Pumbaa to Levemir. Especially after his major dive last night. *sigh*

Suze
 
Pumbaa said:
Yes, the "house arrest" was due to the fact that he has always been an indoors-only cat, and to make sure he didn't die from rabies...
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You mean if he caught rabies from biting you? :mrgreen:


Pumbaa said:
...I'm seriously considering switching Pumbaa to Levemir. Especially after his major dive last night. *sigh*

Suze
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Same here.

But I'm afraid it may be pushing it to get another script so soon from Chip's (new) hands off vet.

I don't think Levemir does all that much for the bounces per se. But if I'm understanding correctly it has more even dispersion than Lantus which should help keep the nadirs from shifting side to side so much. And the biggest benefit may be to officially be "under the wing" of Sheila, Vicky and the gang. They do seem to be good @ safely dealing with bouncing. But if Pumbaa and Chip are *actually* ketone prone then that may be a wrench in the plans. But they know well how to deal with all that.

Why don't you make a thread in Levemir and have Sheila take a look to see if Pumbaa is a good candidate? :!:

I wouldn't worry about the sticky about switching, just post and have them look over Pumbaa's spreadsheet.
 
Dale 'n' Chip said:
Pumbaa said:
Yes, the "house arrest" was due to the fact that he has always been an indoors-only cat, and to make sure he didn't die from rabies...
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You mean if he caught rabies from biting you? :mrgreen:
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Hahahahaha! Thanks for making me laugh!


Dale 'n' Chip said:
Pumbaa said:
...I'm seriously considering switching Pumbaa to Levemir. Especially after his major dive last night. *sigh*

Suze
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Same here.

But I'm afraid it may be pushing it to get another script so soon from Chip's (new) hands off vet.

I don't think Levemir does all that much for the bounces per se. But if I'm understanding correctly it has more even dispersion than Lantus which should help keep the nadirs from shifting side to side so much. And the biggest benefit may be to officially be "under the wing" of Sheila, Vicky and the gang. They do seem to be good @ safely dealing with bouncing. But if Pumbaa and Chip are *actually* ketone prone then that may be a wrench in the plans. But they know well how to deal with all that.

Why don't you make a thread in Levemir and have Sheila take a look to see if Pumbaa is a good candidate? :!:

I wouldn't worry about the sticky about switching, just post and have them look over Pumbaa's spreadsheet.
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That's a good idea. Probably tomorrow when I've caught up more on life and sleep. :)

Suze
 
Okay late to the party as usual..lol But what I discovered when I switched Musette from Lantus to Levemir was that it gave her smoothier curves overall, she stopped having the deep dives and high bounces...she would still bounce from lower than what her body was use to numbers but she didn't bounce as high, but she also didn't dive from the basement either. It became easier to look at her numbers and figure out if she needed more insulin or less.

And Sheila and Vicky and the gang are awesome not only with helping with dosing but helping with figuring out what to do with schedules that need to be adjust to allow sleep and life to happen. :-D

But I agree post over on the Lev ISG ask them to take a look at Pumbaa's spreadsheet and see what they think. They might even have a suggestion or two on how to make Lantus work better for him.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
How about starting his food with a teaspoon of high(er) carb food first, wait 10-15 minutes for that to start kicking in, followed by the remainder of his meal and shot?
 
Mel, never too late to the party! :) I know you had success switching Musette from Lantus to Levemir, and will be asking for a SS review, as I just want what is best for Pumbaa.

BJ: Pumbaa doesn't always dive, and by doing that, wouldn't I be artificially altering his numbers? Actually, I was going to post a new question on the health board about using higher carbed food to stave off a severe drop, and how you read those numbers later.

As in on 6/9 in the PM cycle, I prevented Pumbaa from dropping below 50 (I hope, anyway, because after chasing him down and getting him to eat more protein and higher carbed food, I fell asleep on the couch and didn't wake up when the alarm went off 20 minutes later). So, if he hadn't already just had a dose reduction that cycle, would you take into consideration that you prevented a drop to below 50 with higher carbed food, and still reward with a dose reduction?

Today is like my Saturday, and I want to take some time to enter the %Kal values for protein/fat/carbs on Pumbaa's SS so I can try and compare, especially his numbers when the food was a bit higher in carbs. I was putting those numbers on the cans of food, so I knew in advance what they were getting, but lack of time has prevented me from continuing this. :(

Suze
 
Pumbaa said:
...BJ: Pumbaa doesn't always dive, and by doing that, wouldn't I be artificially altering his numbers? Actually, I was going to post a new question on the health board about using higher carbed food to stave off a severe drop, and how you read those numbers later...
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Yes, it would alter his numbers - better to have days with slightly higher numbers in the early part of the cycle, than to have him hypo so badly he can't recover.

I was thinking along the lines of a split meal approach - it could be an appetizer (maybe teaspoon) and main course approach, or maybe 2 meals, with one meal 10-15 minutes before the second. It wouldn't necessarily have to be higher carb. It would get some calories in and started on raising the glucose before you give the insulin which tends to make him dive at times. And by virtue of a 2nd meal, you'd have the opportunity to corral him for his shot. It could help to get one of those kitchen timers and set it for the 10-15 minute delay.

The other option, once you've reviewed the carb levels on the foods he likes, it to go with foods in the slightly higher level, ex. instead of 4%, maybe feed 6%. It has been posted on the board that some cats do better with slightly higher carb levels in their diets.
 
Thank you, BJ, for your great suggestions on how to control Pumbaa's diving days.

Actually, this morning I fed the drooler first, and she gets ground chicken with her food. I gave Pumbaa a little bit of that about 15 minutes before he was due for testing and shooting. Pure protein, some calories on board, and I think this will also prevent him from gorging on his canned food and barfing if he eats too fast. (He hasn't barfed in a while, so that is good, too.)

Do you suggest testing before he gets this appetizer, or after?

Suze
 
Always test before giving any food - you need to know how low he is to start, so you know if it is safe to give the insulin.
 
BJM said:
Always test before giving any food - you need to know how low he is to start, so you know if it is safe to give the insulin.
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Duh! I knew that! And yet I didn't do that this morning...he got the chicken first before testing. :(

Some mornings both cats are hoovering the feeding table for crumbs, yet it's too early to test and feed and shoot them.

Suze
 
Pumbaa said:
...Some mornings both cats are hoovering the feeding table for crumbs, yet it's too early to test and feed and shoot them.

Suze
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Test and feed and shoot them?

I know, Larry is jealous of all the attention and wants to be a Sugarcat too. :mrgreen:

(but with his lo carb diet he'll get to miss all the *fun* -- that's one thing I've learned for the sake of the other cats)
 
Chippendale's:

Yeah, yeah...I lumped all three animals in the regiment because it wouldn't be normal if Larry weren't on the feeding/testing table trying to push all of the testing accoutrements onto the floor, and Beck (the drooler) didn't start barking wildly right at poke or injection time because there was a cat across the street and three houses down. Hahahahaha!

I also go to my mom's house daily and take care of her two cats - one is on meds for eye problems (and other things at times), and both are habitual barfers. About a month ago, we had one of her cats into the vet because mom was worried that he had diabetes because he's lost a lot of weight (went from 25 lbs. to about 18 lbs.) in the last year, and he drinks a lot of water. I am so thankful his BG levels were normal, you have no clue! There is no way my 78-year-old arthritic mom, also on oxygen 24/7 due to an untreatable lung disease, could have dealt with a DB cat.

So how many kitties do you have besides Chip?

Suze
 
Pumbaa said:
...So how many kitties do you have besides Chip?

Suze
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For years I only had 2 if you can believe that. ;-)

Besides Chip I now have exactly the number I can have without needing a breeders permit. @-)

But with him it's one too many. :YMSIGH:

(Chip, his brother, 3 nephews and 2 girls... one female is a cousin of Chip's mother, and the other is mother of the 3 nephews)

(by the time you reply to this, you will have the 4th largest condo in the history of this forum! ) :smile:
 
lol got you beat on number of kitties...see list in my signature...and there is one more that isn't listed as technically she isn't mine but I may be stuck with her....plus there are the strays and neighborhood kitties that show up like clockwork for snacking on the front porch...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
MommaOfMuse said:
lol got you beat on number of kitties...see list in my signature...
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You're in a whole 'nother league. ;-)

Interesting about my colony is that they are all either immediate or extended family, so in some way they look out for each other. The whole clan has a maternal instinct.

No hissing or squabbling really.

That does not extend to food. When it comes to food it's every hog for himself, although no growling or hissing over food either.
 
Well I have a few that are related to each other, Bert & Casper are brothers, Sophia & Tre'Vona are sisters, and Duvessa and Myrrdin are twin brother and sister tuxes. The rest are all rescues but are fairly close in age, except for Maxwell (13) and Onyx (17) but the rest are between 2-6 years old. Although there are some doubts that Autumn is not older than the 6years old that her owner stated her at, I kind of suspect that she is at least in her early teens.

But you would never know that they aren't related, they all view each other as family and can be routinely found in huge kitty piles on various pieces of furniture. However, let a new guy show up at the outdoor feeding stations and not only will everyone be in the windows checking them out the hissing and growling will begin. :roll:

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
MommaOfMuse said:
...But you would never know that they aren't related, they all view each other as family and can be routinely found in huge kitty piles on various pieces of furniture. However, let a new guy show up at the outdoor feeding stations and not only will everyone be in the windows checking them out the hissing and growling will begin. :roll:

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
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I'd love know how you can manage that many indoors. :-D

Of course I never would have imagined I could manage this many. Maybe most normal (feline) social cats can adapt to almost any stable colony?

It's when there are any changes it upsets the apple cart while the hierarchy gets reestablished.
 
Tortie58/Helen in Hong Kong has over 20 cats! Including Rosey who has FD. She must have the patience of a saint!

I'm overwhelmed at times with just 2 cats and a drooler, so I give you all lots of credit! :)

Suze
 
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