6/26 Jinx PMPS 410, +3 163, +4.25 64, +5 73, +6 124

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Joe and Jinx

Member Since 2012
Yesterday: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=73821

Last night, I gave Jinx about 1/4 cup of dry kibble so I expected his AMPS to be much higher than 267. I decided to give him only 1.0u of insulin after he ate just a couple pieces of boiled chicken breast.

Under no circumstances, will he be anesthetized during his vet visit today and I will try to get them to forgo the sedation and to let me be in the room with him while he's getting the ultrasound.

FInger's crossed the 1.0u keeps him in a decent range today without the worry of a dive into the low numbers, and of course, going into the highs.
 
Re: 6/26 Jinx AMPS 267

Wow...I expected a much high number, too.

He should be safe with the 1u. Good luck today and p,ease keep us posted. Hope you got some rest.
 
Re: 6/26 Jinx AMPS 267

Hi guys .. That yellow isn't a bad start at all! My thoughts are with you guys .. please keep us updated if you can ...
 
Re: 6/26 Jinx AMPS 267

Hi, everyone. I appreciate all the messages and apologize for the late response. As of now, it appears I may have lucked out with giving him 1.0u this morning because his values were in the 200s throughout the day. Fingers crossed for 8pm PMPS. Here are the results of the blood work, echocardiogram, and abdominal ultrasound.

Echocardiogram - Slight leaky valve but nothing to be concerned about. Heart checked out fine and next check-up recommended in 2 years.

Pancreatitis - Spec fPL result came in at 25 ug/ L and abdominal ultrasound results further indicate probable chronic pancreatitis.

Liver disease - His blood work revealed an elevated liver value of 722.

IBD or Lymphoma - He has mild thickening of his small intestine. The internist said that it is in the inner part of the intestine which would require a surgical biopsy to determine whether it's IBD or lymphona. I asked the internist for her gut assessment and she said IBD. That combined with the liver and intestinal issues would indicate triaditis.

Here are links to his blood work results, and the radiologist and internist comments. I am planning on treating him for IBD which will require a steroid regiment the vet initially said would consist of a high dose of prednisolone followed by, I think, budesonide. However, she then said she wanted to give that some thought considering the impact the pred would have on the diabetes and that he could no longer be on pred to manage the asthma if he's on budesonide.

For now, she prescribed mirtazapine as an appetite stimulant and I am going to call tomorrow regarding her thoughts on the IBD treatment and will ask for an anti-nausea medication per Marje's recommendation.

Internal Medicine Vet notes - https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B8dZ4s ... VV4SmF2aVk
Radiologist notes - https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B8dZ4s ... 1F4d3FRalU
Blood work - https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B8dZ4s ... kYwbGhCSlU
 
Re: 6/26 Jinx AMPS 267, CP question

There's some "homework" on pancreatitis that I want to suggest so you have a larger fund of information
For most cats, treatment involves something to address pain -- this is a very painful condition. Usually buprenorphine is suggested for pain management. Meds to deal with nausea, such as ondansatron, and an appetite stimulant if needed. Many cats benefit from fluids. Jojo's post also discusses supplements, which may be a helpful consideration.
 
Re: 6/26 Jinx PMPS 410, CP question

Thank-you, Sienne. Marje stressed the pain meds as well so I will definitely read that tonight and ask for a prescription for a pain med tomorrow.
 
Re: 6/26 Jinx PMPS 410 (sigh), CP question

Hi Joe,

A couple people have emailed me about Jinx. I am not a diabetes expert but am very vocal in educating people on the importance of assist feeding.

Quick background - my cat Maverick almost died due to negligent vet advice. He was as close to death as you could get and ended up needing a feeding tube for ten weeks. My friend found a yahoo group dedicated to assist feeding cats the night of his tube placement. Maverick would have died without their knowledge and support. Since that day in July 2008 I have been very active on the Yahoo Feline Assisted Feeding Group and pay it forward. Cats can't go very long without eating or a week or two with too low calories. When cats bodies resort to body fat to make up a calorie deficit their livers clog with the fat and actually fails.

Jinx is diabetic which makes calories even more critical. Infection, lack of calories and not enough insulin can lead to diabetic keto acidosis which is deadly fast and most cats need expensive hospitalization to recover. You will get amazing diabetes advice here. We went through five vets before finding the perfect one. One that was not old school (I have the white coat its my way or the highway), that listened and looked into things if they didn't have the answer. They do exist. You are Jinx's parent and its your job to advocate for him. The poeple on these groups read endlessly about these specific issues and know more than vets. Vets are generalists and not up to speed on the latest treatments. These groups save lives so please listen to them.

There is a yahoo group dedicated to assist feeding cats: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-Assisted-Feeding/ More on this below.

Vets are quick to dispense appetite stimulants without addressing nausea. It is like giving you an appetite stimulant with the flu. You know how horrible feeling nauseated feels like. Add a chemical on top of that that makes you eat and its a recipe for long term food aversion. You probably would never eat chicken soup again. Appetite stimulants should not be given to an anorexic cat. If your cat is eating but just not enough it can be a great tool but must be given with an a true antinausea medication. A pancreatic cat needs an antinausea medication regardless. Ondansetron is very affordable but pricing varies. Many members say Costco is good and you don't have to be a member. Thrivingpets sellls it for 80 cents per four mg pill (four doses). Up here in Canada I paid 9$ a pill and it was worth its weight in gold. If Jinx is vomiting also - Cerenia is the best for this but not nausea. Here is a technical article for you written by a vet for vets on controlling nausea and vomiting in cats. http://tinyurl.com/24wrt8v. A lot of vets prescribe reglan/metoclopromide which doesn't work on cats for nausea. It does in dogs.

Pancreatitis is horribly painful and nauseating. The standard course of treatment is fluids, pain control (buprenorphine) and antinausea medications. Metacam kills cats even with one dose - causing acute renal failure. It has a black box warning and you should have this on your file to not give to your cat. There is a great yahoo group dedicated to pancreatitis: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Pancreatitis_Support/

Assist feeding - your cat needs calories to survive pancreatitis and avoid DKA. A high fat diet can be hard on a pancreatic cat so others who have dealt with this can recommend something for you to feed. Maybe pure meat baby food. Assist feeding involves syringe feeding, finger feeding, feeding on a baby spoon, plopping on the floor - what ever works. Never assist feed a food you need him to eat on its own. This helps avoid aversion to that food. If you go to the FAF website I linked to there is a video on our home page of a cat being syringe fed. Also if you join you will get sent five auto files. One of them is how to syringe feed safely and effectively. It gives you lots of tips on things to try for your cat. Assist feeding is invaluable and everyone should try this for their cats before there is a crisis. Its a tool to get you through the flare up. If your cat is prone to pancreatitis you may have to intermittently jump in and assist feed in the future. It is a new skill that takes a bit of practice. It can be overwhelming reading everything but you aren't in this alone. You have the people here who know more than diabetes that will help you through this. The goal is to maintain weight and even more if there are ketones. A pet/baby/shipping scale that weighs to the ounce is the best way of knowing if you are feeding enough. The baby scale actually caught Maverick's diabetes before any other symptoms arose and he was diet managed for a year.

You have to be strong and get what you need from your vet, and if you can't - find a new one. I had a horrible first vet that was an actual bully. To this day I have anxiety issues when I need to go to the vets. For a couple of years I needed a pep talk and support to get the courage to do this for Maverick. To help give me courage to speak up and not freeze. I eventually got the courage to fire him and go through others and found the perfect one. So lean on people here to help you prepare. I also got advice to practice out loud what I was going to say and to talk it through with "Dr. Maverick". It may sound silly but it helped a lot. Its overwhelming at first - but you'll survive it and so will Jinx :)

Edit - I see there is also elevated liver values. You will also need to add a liver supplement to the mix. This is proven to improve survivability. Denosyl, Marin or Denamarin are the most common.
 
Re: 6/26 Jinx PMPS 410 (sigh), CP question

I sent a PM to Karrie and she's going to chime in. Here are my thoughts on things to address with the vet

1. Possible subqs (lactated ringers) if needed to keep him hydrated and feeling better. Need to consider the heart murmur in this....which would mean lower amounts of fluids, again, if needed

2. Pain meds...as Sienne suggested...bupe is a good one. Compounded at pharmacy..ask for flavored liquid

3. Ondansetron for nausea

4. Discuss ability to get cerenia if he starts vomiting

5. Appetite stimulant...but only if nausea addressed....I'd love Karrie to chime in here; I like cyproheptadine more than mirtz but she knows pros and cons...both can make him agitated and tend to meow

6. Denamarin for the liver. Urosidil (spelling?) is also good but is pricey.

7. Raw diet for IBD....if that works, I'd hold off on the steroids for IBD.

8. Case of premium beer or 21 year old single malt scotch for the bean.?..you don't need to ask the vet about this. :-D
 
Re: 6/26 Jinx PMPS 410 (sigh), CP question

hi joe. just jumping in with a little more info...

denamarin is a supplement many of of have used to support liver function. ask your vet about it. if it'll help... this is where i've found the best price: http://thevetmarket.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=592. i believe you can also find it on amazon.com.

you might want to take a look at this page. there may be some things there that you want to discuss with your vet. they talk about CP and IBD as well as triaditis. we had success treating alex's liver problems with ursodiol, but i don't know if it would help jinx. again, you'd have to talk to your vet. it can be compounded into a tuna or chicken flavored suspension.

i'm sure your head is swimming. all that's been mentioned so far kind of goes hand-in-hand.
try not to get too overwhelmed...
 
Re: 6/26 Jinx PMPS 410 (sigh), CP question

8. Case of premium beer or 21 year old single malt scotch for the bean.?..you don't need to ask the vet about this.

Oooh I like that piece of advice especially :lol:

Yeah Cypro over mirtz any day. Mirtz has a lot more side effects and stays in the body longer. Some vets think it helps nausea too but it isn't an antinausea medication at all. Cypro - a teeny tiny sliver - less than an eighth of a pill to start. So many vets prescribe way too much of this.
 
Re: 6/26 Jinx PMPS 410 (sigh), CP question

Really appreciate all the info, everyone!! I've read all your messages and am now going to start reading the additional literature starting at the top with the info Sienne provided on pancreatitis. Tomorrow, I'll post a message to outline my approach and to solicit further input before I talk to my vet. But before I do that, I'm going to call her in the morning to see if she's willing to get Jinx on buprenorphine and ondansetron. If she's not, I'll find a vet who will.

As far as his appetite, he's eating great tonight but it's almost like he's too hungry. He's eaten the baby food, boiled chicken breast, and his NV canned chicken but wasn't interested in the raw so I'll try that again tomorrow. He seems really antsy, though, and keeps walking back and forth between where I feed him and where the dry food is that my civvie eats (high up where he can't get to). He seems slightly agitated too so I'll bring that up when I talk to the vet about getting him on ondansetron. Will ask her about cyproheptadine as an alternative to the mirtazapine to have on hand in case the vomiting starts up again.

Again, thank-you so much for the info and time you all took to help educate me on these complex issues. I know I'll probably have a lot of questions tomorrow.
 
Re: 6/26 Jinx PMPS 410, +3 163 - CP question

Thanks, Marje. Goodnight.

I pulled out a blue lancet in the hopes that he'd be in the blue tonight but wasn't expecting it at +3. Very surprised at that.
 
Re: 6/26 Jinx PMPS 410, +3 163, +4.25 64

Just saw your message, Marje. 64 at +4.25. This cat is unreal. At least he ate the 1tsp of HC I just gave him.
 
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