6/2, Susie, 293 AMPS, 285 @+2

Summer and Susie (GA)

Summer and Susie (GA)

Member Since 2020
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-3-2-116-4-105-5-122-6-5.248080/#post-2798509

Looking at the TR protocol to see if it is time to switch. Just so surprised that she got a 42 the other day, I made the reduction but now she is struggling to get into the greens. Maybe I should switch to TR and try doing a 1.75 fat dose. Something in between 1.75 and 2 units. The 2 units seemed to be so successful for her but also it resulted in too low of numbers for me to be comfortable with. Will give her another day or two.
 
:bighug: Happy Wednesday, Summer! We had a lot of success doing fat / skinny doses when we were trying to find the sweet spot. Hoping Susie comes down for you, mama! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Emily + Zen said:
:bighug: Happy Wednesday, Summer! We had a lot of success doing fat / skinny doses when we were trying to find the sweet spot. Hoping Susie comes down for you, mama! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Thanks, Emily. So hard to measure the 1.75 dose. I can't imagine trying to get a fat 1.75. Looks like Zen is really getting close to an OTJ trial. Really hope it all works out for both of you!
 
Thank you, Summer! If Zen goes OTJ, maybe I can send you my calipers. I was really surprised with how much they helped yesterday.
 
Emily + Zen said:
Thank you, Summer! If Zen goes OTJ, maybe I can send you my calipers. I was really surprised with how much they helped yesterday.
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Thanks, Em, but I already use calipers. They are very helpful. I have the light box and a lighted magnifying glass, too. I pulled out all the stops and they all help greatly with my bad vision.
 
It's possible Susie could have dipped down last night since the +2 was slightly lower than PMPS. One thing to keep in mind since you are considering TR is that you would have reduced the dose with that 42 for TR also. Give Susie a chance to come back down and see what she does tonight and tomorrow. Hang in there. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
carfurby said:
It's possible Susie could have dipped down last night since the +2 was slightly lower than PMPS. One thing to keep in mind since you are considering TR is that you would have reduced the dose with that 42 for TR also. Give Susie a chance to come back down and see what she does tonight and tomorrow. Hang in there. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Yes, I would have reduced with TR too. I'm so confused with whether to stay on SLGs or switch to TR. I need to remember that it takes a while for Susie to settle into a new dose and that is the main reason I have been staying on SLGS. I am very frustrated right now but will put on my patience pants and wait a day or so. Also, I'll make my self get a +5 tonight. Thanks, Carla. We will see what happens.
 
I don’t think she went low last night. If you were following TR then I would say it’s a failed reduction but with SLGS there’s no such thing. It looks to me like unless you see green you will increase after 7 days.
 
tiffmaxee said:
I don’t think she went low last night. If you were following TR then I would say it’s a failed reduction but with SLGS there’s no such thing. It looks to me like unless you see green you will increase after 7 days.
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Or switch to TR.

If things stay the way they are what dose would I increase to????? She fell to 42 on the next highest dose of 2 units.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Hi Summer. Sorry that Susie is staying in the yellows today. She seems to either want to be yellow or green.... skipping over blue entirely! Frustrating.
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I had to laugh when you said that because it is so true. Just trying to anticipate the next increase. 2 units was a bit too much. 1.75 isn't enough. Maybe a skinny 2 or a fat 1.75 if I can even figure out how to measure those. I guess I could toss a coin. I wonder how you measure a skinny and a fat on calipers?
 
Summer and Susie said:
I had to laugh when you said that because it is so true. Just trying to anticipate the next increase. 2 units was a bit too much. 1.75 isn't enough. Maybe a skinny 2 or a fat 1.75 if I can even figure out how to measure those. I guess I could toss a coin. I wonder how you measure a skinny and a fat on calipers?
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I think a skinny 2 is the same as a fat 1.75.
 
Summer and Susie said:
I had to laugh when you said that because it is so true. Just trying to anticipate the next increase. 2 units was a bit too much. 1.75 isn't enough. Maybe a skinny 2 or a fat 1.75 if I can even figure out how to measure those. I guess I could toss a coin. I wonder how you measure a skinny and a fat on calipers?
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With SLGS there is no concept of a skinny or a fat dose either!

Even with TR, you wouldn't skinny or fatten doses just yet. That comes when a cat fails a reduction repeatedly. She is seeing no green on this dose...yet. You would take it back to 2U with TR. Just because she dipped below 50 a few days back on 2U, does not mean she will again. If she does dip below 50 on 2U again and the reduction to 1.75U fails again, you can try a dose between 1.75U and 2U - if you are following TR.

The other option for failed reductions (with TR) is to wait for 3 drops between 40 and 50 on 3 separate days (not cycles) to take the reduction.


Suzanne & Darcy said:
I think a skinny 2 is the same as a fat 1.75.
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Yup!
 
Bandit's Mom said:
With SLGS there is no concept of a skinny or a fat dose either!

Even with TR, you wouldn't skinny or fatten doses just yet. That comes when a cat fails a reduction repeatedly. She is seeing no green on this dose...yet. You would take it back to 2U with TR. Just because she dipped below 50 a few days back on 2U, does not mean she will again. If she does dip below 50 on 2U again and the reduction to 1.75U fails again, you can try a dose between 1.75U and 2U - if you are following TR.

The other option for failed reductions (with TR) is to wait for 3 drops between 40 and 50 on 3 separate days (not cycles) to take the reduction.

Be still my heart!!!!!!
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To add to what Bhooma said - Mr Kitty is never super consistent so when he does/did drop into lower numbers, I had planned to reduce only after he had done it twice. He may drop into 50s one time, and then stay blue the remainder of cycles. Susie's a little bit different, so just have to find what you're comfortable with of course!
 
Summer and Susie said:
Or switch to TR.

If things stay the way they are what dose would I increase to????? She fell to 42 on the next highest dose of 2 units.
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You would increase to 2.0 if things stay as they are. Many cats go back and forth between doses. If you increase, your goal would be to prevent a drop under 50 and feed a little higher carbs if getting close to try and keep her in normal numbers as much of the time as possible.
 
FrostD said:
To add to what Bhooma said - Mr Kitty is never super consistent so when he does/did drop into lower numbers, I had planned to reduce only after he had done it twice. He may drop into 50s one time, and then stay blue the remainder of cycles. Susie's a little bit different, so just have to find what you're comfortable with of course!
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Thank you, Melissa. I am starting to feel like there is really little support for folks like me that are on the FDMB protocol of SLGS. Everyone is pushing me into me TR and I am not getting much support with SLGS. I wonder why this site even discusses SLGS when there is little support for it. Maybe the "powers that be" should just eliminate the SLGS protocol altogether from FDMB. I am not the only one who feels this way.
 
Summer and Susie said:
Thank you, Melissa. I am starting to feel like there is really little support for folks like me that are on the FDMB protocol of SLGS. Everyone is pushing me into me TR and I am not getting much support with SLGS. I wonder why this site even discusses SLGS when there is little support for it. Maybe the "powers that be" should just eliminate the SLGS protocol altogether from FDMB. I am not the only one who feels this way.
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I understand. For what it's worth, I'm not really interpreting any of these posts (or in past condos) as "pushing". Moreso everyone trying to be helpful however they can in your goals for Susie.

I don't follow the rules exactly as written all the time either, as they say "Know Thy Cat'. I understand the rules, I understand why they are the way they are, I follow them as closely as I can, but at the end of the day I make the decisions that I think are best for Mr Kitty.
 
Do you have calipers? Best for fine tuning.

I think her numbers the other day were fabulous! Too bad you had to reduce on that first low number...if she doesn't respond in a 3 days/6 cycles (on TR) you should increase again and get that girl back into the lagoon!

I used to just hate when Luci would lose a good dose because she'd drop too low - we finally moved to the 'under 3 times under 50' before I'd reduce. So hard to hold her in good numbers without enough juice...for us it's rinse/repeat...sheesh :rolleyes:

Hope you're having a good day!
 
:bighug: Summer, you have to do what you think is best for Susie at all times. When I was hemming and hawing about how to deal with the vet who wanted us to keep Zen on dry food, and then with the vet who didn't like it when Zen dropped below 100, at some point, my husband looked at me and said, "He's not their cat." You do what you think is right for Susie. Full stop. People on the board went with TR because there's the shiny idea of remission waiting at the end of it. That's not what everyone wants. And that's not to say that SLGS doesn't include a chance of remission, too. It's just that TR requires that you ride your kitty's BG basically into the pavement to get the pancreas to kick back in. SLGS has a completely different approach, and neither one is inherently right or wrong. You hold the syringe, mama.
 
Emily + Zen said:
:bighug: Summer, you have to do what you think is best for Susie at all times. When I was hemming and hawing about how to deal with the vet who wanted us to keep Zen on dry food, and then with the vet who didn't like it when Zen dropped below 100, at some point, my husband looked at me and said, "He's not their cat." You do what you think is right for Susie. Full stop. People on the board went with TR because there's the shiny idea of remission waiting at the end of it. That's not what everyone wants. And that's not to say that SLGS doesn't include a chance of remission, too. It's just that TR requires that you ride your kitty's BG basically into the pavement to get the pancreas to kick back in. SLGS has a completely different approach, and neither one is inherently right or wrong. You hold the syringe, mama.
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Very well said, Emily, and thank you for that. This reduction has been so frustrating. On 2 units she really dove. On 1.75 units she has seen no greens. I can't seem to find the "happy place" for a kitty I don't want to drive into the pavement. I just want good, safe numbers. By the way, you are probably sticking your neck out with your comments. I don't want anyone to alienate you like they have me. Bless you for your honesty and not being afraid to speak your mind. I need support like yours now.
 
Hi Summer, I’m sorry you feel you are not getting support and you think it is because you are doing SLGS.
I have been here since 2015 and had a diabetic cat from 2011. I have been helping people for several years and I can honestly say it has never made the slightest difference whether the CG was doing TR or SLGS methods. All we are interested in doing is helping FD kitties.

I lead a really busy life but I try and be here every day to help FD kitties and their CG. I know our other experienced helpers also lead really busy lives so I think we all need to keep that in mind when we criticise helpers who all do this on a voluntary basis. They give up hours every day to help others. It is always up to the CG whether they accept the advice or not.
This is not a criticism and I hope it will be taken in the spirit it is given.
 
Emily + Zen said:
People on the board went with TR because there's the shiny idea of remission waiting at the end of it. That's not what everyone wants.
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Let me correct this statement, at least as far as I was concerned. My cat had acromegaly - whether she went into remission or not wasn't in my control. What I could do was try to get her regulated as best I could. Why would I want that? Multiple reasons. First, acromegaly and IAA can cause a sudden need for more insulin. I wanted the flexibility to increase faster than SLGS provided. BTW, I was on SLGS for about 2 days, then abandoned it, too impatient. :p And because Neko got kidney disease, and acromegaly can be hard on the kidneys, my goal was to keep her under renal threshold as much as possible. If I had to reduce her at 90, I never would have gotten there. She did best when her nadirs were in the upper 60's to 70's range, that's what kept the high numbers mostly under renal threshold. Bottom line - people have different reasons for following Tight Regulation. Another benefit I had with regulation - her numbers were much more predictable and allowed me to get more sleep. That one alone was really worth it!

Summer - whether you follow TR or SLGS, the decision is really yours alone. My only guidance is don't mix and match the two. If you want to follow SGLS, follow it's guidelines. Hold doses 7 days, unless she drops below your reduction point. No failed reduction concept. I also think 55 is too low a reduction point for SLGS, but that's another discussion. And stop speculating whether you should switch to TR - cause that will just give people the idea that you are looking to be convinced to switch. Pick what you feel comfortable with and stick with it, which dosing method doesn't matter to most of us, you have to live with it. We'll support you either way, but it's easier to help you if we know which method you want to really follow.
 
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Summer, I've offered a few suggestions to you in the past with respect to SLGS :), I hope you do understand that you are being supported, although from me, perhaps less relevant to you than other members' help?. In any case, sometimes my time has been limited, as is so more recently these days. I have always tried to help within the confines of what I see you are comfortable with. It is understandable to want to achieve a nice steady range, as you've mentioned before, but that takes time and patience. Sometimes the numbers aren't where you want them to be, and the dosing methods we follow help to determine how quickly you can increase. I agree wholeheartedly with what Wendy just posted. Most definitely that trying to mix and match the two dosing methods isn't recommended.
 
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