? 6/16 Perry AMPS 257 / fine dosing with Lantus pen question

Perry & Jenn

Member Since 2019
Emailed with Perry's vet yesterday, and we're thinking about increasing his insulin ... which means he will go up to 1.25u twice daily, which means we need to get syringes for fine dosing.

I've read the sticky on insulin care, syringes & fine dosing, but I'm wondering if anyone has tips or advice beyond what's there. Is it really as simple as drawing a dose out of the Lantus pen? And no more priming the pen, but I'm wondering if we need to draw a hair extra into the syringe, hold it needle up, tap tap tap and push some out to clear it?

Furthermore, about the increase: We switched Perry's food on 6/12, and though I posted this additional info yesterday, I'll repost here below, between the asterisks. (No comments on this yesterday, which is my fault for not adding anything to the subject line to suggest I needed advice! I suppose I didn't have a question at the time but was just letting all of my thoughts spill onto the page.) Fortunately, I'm getting better at testing (in the past few days it has really clicked!), so we are starting to get more numbers on his spreadsheet, but still, apologies for the gaps there. He's running high often, though.

Here's what I posted yesterday:

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Poor Perry's roller coaster continues. Yesterday morning we had an AMPS of 164, but after a big breakfast, he jumped to 508 at +4. YIKES. Tested again at +5 and he had dropped to 280. I think the Lantus is hitting him in that fourth hour, and not at hour four.

After last week's tough time with the enema and subsequent on-and-off diarrhea, we had to have a hard talk about food with this kitty. He likes wet food just fine, but he's been a picky eater with the low-carb diet, and we've switched his food to keep him eating -- seemed pretty important to keep this cat eating since he's lost 2 pounds since diagnosis in late February. The vet has pointed out that it's hard to regulate a cat when you're changing his food, and I completely agree with her. This spring he's been on various Tiki Cats, Weruvas, Nulo, Dr. Elsey's, Fussie Cat, Ziwi, Fancy Feast, Purina naturals -- you name it, we've tried it. Some stick for a few weeks. Others he's tired of after three cans. I think I have the tips for picky eaters sticky memorized at this point.

So, on Wednesday evening, we decided to go with the vet's rec and try the prescription Purina DM flaked wet food. He went bonkers for it, because he's been denied gravy all this time! (I was pretty strict with carb content and ingredients -- no potato starches, etc -- as we were trying to get him into remission this spring via food alone.) Good so far: he's eating it consistently, and his poops are getting consistent, which is fantastic, because that's been on and off since we switched to all wet food. But the DM flaked is slightly higher carb content than say a Fussie Cat, which is zero, and I'm wondering if it caused that scary 508! Then again, he's had highs before the DM, and since he hasn't been on Lantus that long (three weeks) and I haven't been home testing for that long, we're still getting a handle on everything here.

Meanwhile, I did get a urine strip this morning, and no ketones, whew.

Hanging in there, but we sure will be happy to see some consistent numbers here.
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I think the flaked dm is too high carb for diabetics. The regular dm is below 10 percent, maybe 6-7 percent. I just switched my cat to redbarn chicken stew, which has gravy thickened by xanthan gum, which is not high carb. It’s 4% carb according to the faq on the chewy website. Best of all, it’s half the price of purina dm.
 
It's no different than drawing from the bottle. You use the stoppers you normally put the pen needles on. Insulin syringes with 1/2 unit marks are your friend. Using calipers will even give you more consistent dosing.

Unfortunately the DM flaked is high carb. The DM pate is fine. If you get a test number so far off, it's best to recheck right away, but I know you might not be able to since he is so uncooperative.
 
The Purina DM flaked wet is 6% carb. I'd prefer to have him on something lower -- which is why I said we had to have a hard talk about this -- but he was all over the place with his other food, and he's eating this really consistently, and his poops are consistent. That's a big deal after the horrible constipation and enema incident.
 
It's no different than drawing from the bottle. You use the stoppers you normally put the pen needles on. Insulin syringes with 1/2 unit marks are your friend. Using calipers will even give you more consistent dosing.

Unfortunately the DM flaked is high carb. The DM pate is fine. If you get a test number so far off, it's best to recheck right away, but I know you might not be able to since he is so uncooperative.

We tried the DM pate and he didn't like it. I even tried mixing them together to disguise the pate, but nope. Kitty's nose wins.

Getting better with testing here, so I'm just now starting to feel like I can retest immediately if I need to, whew!
 
The Purina DM flaked wet is 6% carb. I'd prefer to have him on something lower -- which is why I said we had to have a hard talk about this -- but he was all over the place with his other food, and he's eating this really consistently, and his poops are consistent. That's a big deal after the horrible constipation and enema incident.

Poops are very important. I will still disagree to the flaked food as I don't know how it was calculated. The pate is 6% now which has changed. It use to be 3%. I can't imagine flaked being less, but It could be. Anyways, you just dose around it if it's working for the other issues.
 
Also, typing this straight off my can of DM, because now I'm wondering if Purina has changed the formula:
Protein: 12.5%
Fat: 2.5%
Fiber: 1%
Moisture: 78%

We have thought about trying feed both the DM and the three kinds of Fussie Cat he likes -- he only likes Fussie Cat in limited amounts, though, and we usually have to rotate flavors to get him to keep eating it. This guy is discerning. I put "picky eater" in my signature for a reason!
 
It's likely that the numbers on the can represent the guaranteed analysis vs. as fed values. If they are minimum and maximum values, they are not the as fed numbers you need to get a reliable carb count.
 
What's annoying about cats is they can be on the same dry food for years and years without any issues being picky, but then you can switch them to wet and all of a sudden they can only handle a flavor for so long before they turn their noses up. :rolleyes: My civvie, Bella, generally doesn't care about what's put in front of her. She's only not eaten a few times since we switched to wet food (after Lou's Dx). Lou, on the other hand, simply will not eat the same food long term. And since he's the diabetic, it makes things more problematic. I don't think switching foods is bad as long as everything is under 10% carbs (kitties who are more carb sensitive may need everything under a certain percentage). We feed mostly Fancy Feast here, but we have to get as many flavors as we can and switch them out each meal so he doesn't get sick of it. So we buy the variety pate packs and I even have different flavors for preshot meals, and we store the food in stacks with everything mixed so we're giving him the variety he apparently needs. I think at any given time we may have up to 15 different flavors, and that's just fancy feast. We do have some friskies and we've tried Tiki in the past. You have to do whatever works for your kitty. The things we have to do though... :rolleyes::p
 
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