6/11, Peyton, PMPS 557, +2.5 446, +6.5 228

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jcc1531

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Peyton does not get his insulin until 8:30 and I was trying to wait until closer to that time to feed him and get his AMPS reading. However, Peyton is in kidney failure and has lost a lot of weight so he is frail. With him having kidney failure and not always wanting to eat I take every opportunity I can for him to eat something.
My dilemma: at 7:15 he was adamant he wanted to eat. I went ahead and got his first reading of the day and it was 456. Do I use that as my AMPS reading or so I have to check it again right before shooting? I wasn't sure since the next reading may be influenced by what he just ate.since his injection time is only 1.25 away.
 
Re: 6/14, Peyton, AMPS 456, QUESTION???

I think you would need to retest at shot time, even though it would be food influenced. I wanted to stop by and welcome you and thank you for your good thoughts yesterday on Tarragon's condo for his brother Charlie the drooler. It means a lot to me. Have a great day!
 
Re: 6/14, Peyton, AMPS 456, QUESTION???

Hi Julie. I know it's best to hold food 2 hours before insulin, but if Max is screaming for it, I do give him a little. He has chronic pancreatitis and has had periods where he won't eat as well so if he is persistent, I cave. I do always pick up the food when he is in blue or green two hours before but am more apt to bend if he is high and wanting food because I know a food spike won't matter that much. Many times I find myself feeding him a little around 5:00 a.m. and he gets his insulin at 7:00. Sometimes I give him a little 100% freeze dried chicken as it doesn't contain any carbs. I feed just enough to quiet him down. I've dealt with CRF and would be even more prone to do that in your case. I do test before I feed in that case to make sure he hasn't dropped. However, this does conflict with the protocol. I would definitely test again at AMPS. I'm not advising you to feed within the two hour mark, but wanted to tell you there are times that I do.
 
Re: 6/14, Peyton, AMPS 456, QUESTION???

Thank you Melissa and Elise. I did not get another reading but will next time this happens. That's a good idea to just five the freeze dried chicken to hold him off for a while. I see people talking about when not to feed, when to feed etc. Is there a link to this or every cat is different?
 
Re: 6/14, Peyton, AMPS 456, QUESTION???

Hi Julie, I also sometimes feed within that 2 hour window if Cobb is begging for it.

The reason is so a low number won't be food influenced. If Cobb tests below 200 within those 2 hours, I hold off on the food. Since Peyton tested in the 400s, I don't think you need to worry. I doubt he would drop 300 points at the end of the cycle. Possible, I suppose, but doubtful.

Then retest at shot time and use that as your AMPS.

If Peyton is hungry, you can give him some boiled chicken. That should tide him over and not influence his BG.

~Suzanne
 
Re: 6/14, Peyton, AMPS 456, QUESTION???

Great ideas!!! I bought chicken yesterday without any additives and some ground turkey. I will cook some and freeze it for times like these. A little of that should ride him over :)
Thanks!!!!
 
Re: 6/14, Peyton, AMPS 456, wellness food ?

Another food question:
I saw that some of the Wellness brand wet foods are 4% carbs so I have been switching Peyton over to this. I just read in another group (not diabetes) that someone said that the veggies in Well was food increase the carbs and Wellness foods increase urinary pH. Does anyone feed this brand or know anything about it?
Also,if you start feeding a food with 4% carbs do you have to stick to that one food or anything under 10% is fine? He can be picky at times so I would like to have several things on hand.
 
Re: 6/14, Peyton, AMPS 456, diff food question

Hi Julie, several people here feed Wellness to their kitties. The turkey and chicken are relatively low in phosphorus which make it attractive for kitties with kidney issues. Of the top of my head, Sienne/Gabby, Marje/Gracie, Mariko/Lucy, Ann/Tess, Ella/Rusty come to mind as some who have Wellness on the menu. The As-Fed analysis of the Wellness was used to create the carb %, so the number should eb accurate. There aren't that many veggies in it.

You don't have to stick to the same food or same percentage carbs all the time. As Dr. Lisa has pointed out, there can even be variation from lot to lot of the same food. I serve Neko raw food (which include veggies for vitamins), four different proteins in rotation and they are all in the 3-5% range of foods. There are times when you might want to have the higher (8-10%) low carb foods around to help give numbers a little boost. And some kitties just do better with slightly higher carbs. It's one of those ECID (every cat is different) things, some are more carb sensitive than others. The best thing to do is to keep track of what %carb you feed when. A lot of people record that on their spreadsheet. That'll help you determine what strategy to use with food.

I think it's a good idea to have a bit of variety in the menu. You don't want them to get tired of the one food and not have a backup food to serve. Neko used to be a Wellness chicken girl but if they changed the formula or how they made a certain lot, it would change consistency and she wouldn't eat it for a while. After that I started giving her different flavors in rotation so that if she doesn't like one, I could still use the others.
 
Re: 6/14, Peyton, AMPS 456, diff food question

Thank you Wendy! Before his diabetes diagnosis he was eating a variety of friskies wet foods. After the vet they had put him on Science diet WD which it learned here is too high in carbs. I switched him to the Well was because it was so low in carbs. Some of the friskies were 8% which is good but Wellness was lower. I wanted to make sure that of he would t eat the Well was one day that it would be ok to feed him the Friskies. I might should have stuck with the friskies for more variety but if I can switch them up that will be great :)
 
Re: 6/14, Peyton, AMPS 456, diff food question

For the times that Max really wants to eat when I prefer he not I give him Honeyville freeze dried chicjen or turkey. It is a human product and 100% protein without aditives, no even salt. I bought two huge cans nearly 1 1/2 lbs each. Each is about $39 but away better value than the pet food stores. I'm a quarter way through my second can. I use it for ear prick treats too. The crumbs of which there are more than I would like to see I sprinkle over food if he isn't in the mood to eat when I want him to eat. Check it out at honeyville.com. Yikes I sound like a sales rep, LOL.
 
Re: 6/14, Peyton, AMPS 456, diff food question

Ahh...the never-ending struggle to figure out what they're going to be willing to eat this time!

We all know this one all too well!

As for when to feed, that's very much an ECID thing. The only hard/fast rule is the part about not feeding for 2 hour prior to shot times. Some of us only feed in the early part of the cycle (Like at PS,+1 and +2) so that later during the cycle when the insulin is wearing off, we're not adding carbs on top of it.

Some feed mini meals all day long and just take the food up at +10. It's something that you'll just have to experiment with to see how Peyton responds

Now Peyton...that's enough of that bouncing!
cat1.gif
 
Re: 6/14, Peyton, AMPS 456, diff food question

i think if you need to feed then, do it and just note it on his spreadsheet. as suzanne said, the point of not feeding then is so that when you are ready to shoot, you're not shooting a number that would be very low if you hadn't just fed. but when peyton is over 400, there is no reason to worry about that.

if you tested him at +11 and he was 60, then fed him and an hour later he was 55 and you were ready to shoot, i'd probably then stall without feeding and make sure he was going to rise on his own before i shot. I would be thinking "hmm, that 55 is an hour after eating when it should be at its highest from the carbs he just ate (food spike), and when the carbs wear off, he might go really low."

understanding the rationale for the suggestion of "don't feed from +10-12" helps you know what to do when you need to feed him then. :-D
 
Re: 6/14, Peyton, AMPS 456, diff food question

Yes, enough bouncing! I was happy with the numbers yesterday being lower on .75u than they had been most of the time on 1u or more. I was a little shocked at the 400+ # but better than the "hi" we had been getting. I'm headed home now for PMPS.Thank you all for your wonderful explanations and advice :)
 
Re: 6/14, Peyton, AMPS 456, +5 435, PMPS 557 bouncing?

Ugh! I wish I had been able to get some more readings today but from the looks of things I doubt he went under 400. Is this a normal part of bouncing?
Syringe question, is there always a little bubble in there after you pull the insulin in? I have squirted some out and refilled it, thumped it etc trying to get it out but there is always a little bubble. Made me wonder if he was getting all of the insulin. Then I noticed above the zero marker there is a little space so I thought maybe that made up for the bubble? Am I making sense?
 
Re: 6/11, Peyton, AMPS 456, +5 435, PMPS 557 bouncing?

Bounces can take up to 72 hours to clear, so we just have to wait and see where he is the next couple of cycles, but he dropped 80 points in 2 hours last night, and they don't only bounce from lows...they can also bounce from fast drops. I think I would have tried to get another test at +4 last night

That +2 is a great test to give you an idea of what they might do later in the cycle. I call it my "crystal ball" test. If it's about the same as the pre-shot, you can expect a fairly normal cycle....if it's higher, that may be the beginning of a bounce..and if it's lower, that's your clue that they may be moving down a lot in that cycle, so when you get a +2 that's lower than the pre-shot (especially if it's significantly lower), you should try to get another test in later in the cycle.

Bubbles...the bane of our existence! What I generally do if it looks like it's big enough to be concerned with is to pull some extra air into the syringe (after removing it from the insulin), then tap hard on it to get it to the top, and then slowly push the air out. If it's real tiny, it probably isn't going to make much of a difference
 
Re: 6/11, Peyton, AMPS 456, +5 435, PMPS 557 bouncing?

What kind of syringes are you using? If you are using Monojects, they have a hub at the top and I've measured the insulin which has been sometimes as much as 0.46u more than the dose you think you drew. A difference of that much can add to issues with the depot.

I usually get rid of all the bubbles because Gracie is sensitive to even small insulin dose changes. So I tsp the bubble to the top, pull in a bit of air, and express a bit of insulin with the bubble.

Some cats have a high before the break. They bounce and then shortly before they start to clear the bounce, they pop up a lot higher. Not all cats do this but it's something to watch for.
 
Re: 6/11, Peyton, PMPS 557, +2.5 446

I use the ReliOn U100
We just got a good little drop there! About to go to bed but I will get up in 2-3 hours and retest. That's our biggest reduction of the day :)
 
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