564!!!

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karenkarma

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My cat is on 1 unit of prozinc in the morning and evening.
(I do have lantus)
His bloodsugar is currently 564!!!
I don't know what to do for him. This sucks and I know personally that he has to feel awful.
 
Hey...it's Barbara from FB...I'm super rusty of Pro Zinc but don't panic. What was his blood sugar this morning?
 
I think she went ahead with 1.5u. He was 1u I believe. She has her own prescription for Lantus and has the syringes for it. I think she should go ahead and change to it. Her vet is horrible and is no help at all.
 
I'm concerned cause I need to know if she's still feeding him dry & what was the last blood sugar reading she got.
 
No need to panic. Many cats survive high glucose levels for short periods.

Possible explanations:
- He went lower than accustomed to do; his body reacted and compensated with release of hormones and stored sugar. We call that a bounce.
- There is some sort of infection brewing; that's notorious for raising glucose levels
- He got into contraband high carb food of some sort.
- He needs more insulin.
- Something happened to freak him out and that elevated his glucose.

Without knowing how low he went today, there's no way to know if it is a bounce or if he needs more insulin or something else happened.
 
Yay...Sue thank goodness you're on...I'm so rusty with PZI. She's in a panic right now. I'm looking for her she posted on Health & was on Facebook also.
 
Found you...I think! LOL! Did you say you gave him 1.5 then gave him another .5 If so what time did you give him the 1.5 & what time did you give him the .5? When was the last time he ate? How long had it been since he ate when you got that 564?
 
Well I can tell you she has been feeding Friskies pates. She has only been doing this like a week. She doesnt have alot of numbers because she is having a hard time getting blood. I have been working with her personally teaching her some tricks for home testing but couldnt help with the ProZinc. I did suggest she talk with everyone here about switching to Lantus since she has plenty of it and the syringes to go along with it already. Her vet doesnt believe in Lantus. He wanted to use Humilin N.
 
I'm here...
Sorry... I am sweating. I know what 564 would mean for me so I am terrified for the cat.

I no longer feed him dry. I give him Friskies Pate.
I gave him a couple of bits of turkey for snacks (not big and not much at all) yesterday and a little bit of natural ham.
I will be giving him neither anymore.

I gave him his 1.5 units.

I hadn't managed to get a test from him all day because I need help with it and my boyfriend has been asleep or gone until a while ago.
I am learning to do it by myself and got it without the light today. That's a step ahead.

My boyfriend gave him his shot this morning. I am not sure he has been hitting "meat". After I bent a prozinc needle trying to give him his shot I just converted his dose and used one of mine and it was TONS easier. Sheesh. Just because it's an animal doesn't mean the needles have to be inferior. I know the price isn't much better.
 
And for anyone worried, I technically gave him 1.4 PROZINC units because it shows up as 3.5 on "people needles".
I am just having a hard time articulating myself right now.
 
Haven't read everything yet but wanted to let you know it will be ok....one high reading is not as bad as with a human.
 
Its ok Karen.....just breathe....take slow deep breaths, in through the nose and out through the mouth. He will be ok. Doogle has been HI on the meter which is usually 600+ and he is still here. Everyone here is going to help you. :YMHUG:
 
So we have several possibilities. He may have had a fur shot this am? He could be going low during the day and bouncing back up. Or he could need a little more insulin.

How can we help with the testing? What kind of issues are you having?

Could I set up a spreadsheet for you? Check your private messages. It will say "1 new message" at the top of the page.
 
Tomorrow's festivities involve finding a new vet... This cat is type 1. Type 1 and type 2 is not the same disease and I am 100% sure a cat can be type 1 now.
 
Ok, first off the turkey & ham for treats is ok, especially if it's something you cooked fresh without a bunch of added "stuff". So what was the last blood sugar reading you got on him & when? Have you fed him dinner?
 
Sue you gonna be here to get her through this? I'm not gonna keep butting in if you're gonna take over but can come back to check on her.
 
Yesterday at 9:45 PM 345.
I have him drinking his ice water to hold him out until his numbers are better.
Honestly, his sugar hasn't been less than that since I have been checking it. I know he isn't getting enough insulin and the most i have given him so far is 1.5
That is the only reason I was thinking 2 was a good idea at first.
 
It's better to increase slowly, using your numbers to guide you. If you increase rapidly, especially if you have recently changed to wet low carb, you can suddenly get a low number and then not know how much to reduce.

The 1.5 sounds good. I'd hold it a few cycles to see how it works.

How can we help with the testing?
 
Karen, please let Sue help you set up a SS...she was the very first person that ever helped me when I got here. Hang in there & give us all the info you can so we can help you. Forget about FB....this is the best place to be. If you want to switch to Lantus you can but lets get you straight here first & over this crisis.

Sue, she is a diabetic & has Lantus for herself....makes no sense not to take advantage of that so she won't have to spend any money on insulin for her kitty. She has a stubborn vet that told her she couldn't. I'm not sure what syringes she's using....might be U100's.
 
I think switching would be fine but I think I'd let things settle first. If you use Lantus, you will need more data than ProZinc so let's get the testing down and a spreadsheet done.
 
Karen are you saying you have not fed him? When was the last time he ate? Go ahead & give him his food & let him eat however much he wants.
 
Well, here is one more problem.
The vet told me to give him his insulin in the scruff.
There is barely enough "meat" there to inject because he had been so sick. I think maybe we have missed and got the tented skin some of the time =(
No more of that.
 
If he will let you, sometimes it works well to shoot a skinny cat in his flank because he may have more skin to pull up.

If you think this am was possibly a fur shot, that can certainly explain his higher number tonight.
 
I will find the link to the spreadsheet again. I was waiting until I had a few readings.

Yes, I do have u100 needles.
I do NOT like using these U40s on my Tommy. They seem like they are much more dull than mine.
So, no more of those!
 
We need to back up & start with the basics....yes diabetes is diabetes but some things are a little different in a cat. First off there's no way to tell what's going on unless we have those #'s & you are working on that so good for you! You need to only withhold food for about 2 hrs before you test him....as long as his number is not too low you test, feed him then give his insulin as soon as you are sure he is not going to barf it all up. Some people give the shot while the cat is eating so he is distracted if he gives you trouble with shots. You would need to test him again about 2 hrs after he ate. BTW, do you have any Karo syrup, honey or anything like that you can bring his numbers up with in case he goes too low?
 
I was taught to tent the skin also which is fine unless the needle goes all the way through & you squirt the insulin out the other side. You do not want to give a cat insulin in the muscle....not sure if a human does that or not? There are lots of "stickies" at the top of the pages to explain a lot of stuff to you. Try reading up on those. How long now since you gave his shot?
 
Karen, Sue will also help you set up the SS...she's good at it! If it's too much for you right now let her do it so you don't have so much to deal with. We don't want you getting frustrated.

Have you tried using a rice sock to warm his ear when you test? That really worked for me, I couldn't get blood unless her ear was very warm.
 
Karen, let us know what his number is when you test him again and if he has eaten since you gave his shot.

Donna, can you link the SS over here so Sue can see it? I'm way too rusty with PZI.
 
Karen

In my signature is a link to Secondary Monitoring Tools. You can use many of these to supplement your testing and give you clues about how he is doing. See which ones are most easily obtained by you and note them on the spreadsheet.

They aren't a substitute for glucose testing, just a supplement, due to the lack of precision.
 
Great Donna. Not much data yet, Karen. If you could get some midcyle numbers either during the day or at night, then you'd know how the insulin is working.

For example, if he is dropping 50% midcycle, then the dose is working pretty well. After a few cycles, if he stays in the 300s+, then you might increase by .25. If he doesn't drop and is flat through the cycle and the preshots are 300+, then increasing by .5 might be smarter.
 
Sue, BJ or anyone else that can help....just FYI her cat evidently has been DKA once.

Karen, let us know about the DKA.
 
Gotta go feed the crowd & I really should be doing fluids for Thumper & Callie. Will check back soon. Karen you are doing GREAT! If you post consistently over here you will get all the help you need.
 
Any tests you can get will be great info. Are you feeling better? - he has already had a nice drop. If you want, post here daily with your numbers and get feedback.
 
Thanks a lot guys.
He seems to be feeling better and I am going to attempt to get his blood sugar again in about 1 hr. (Trying to give him a little break while he is not used to it.)
The irony is that the whole panic ordeal ran my sugar up to 401...
But mine is down now too.
 
I DID IT! I tested his blood sugar without help. It is 326. He is going to need more insulin in general i think. But. I am not going to give him more until he has his teeth cleaned. I heard that can help his numbers.

I will add some more info.
When we found out he was diabetic he was in DKA.
He had repeated gum infections in a short period, I could tell his blood sugar was high because of his behavior change and how much he was drinking, but the vet didn't really want to believe that.
He had some problems even before he had steroids first, but they wrote that off as the gum infection.
He got worse after the steroid injections. After the first he quickly started losing weight and the 2nd nearly did him in. I knew when he got so sick he was vomiting and dehydrating that he had diabetes because that's what steroids do to me and it is because my blood sugar gets extremely high.
I am so glad she listened at least enough to get his blood and urine tests. She was sure that it was FIV or Leukemia.
 
Hi Karen,
I'm just curious regarding a comment you made earlier. You said that you "knew what a 564 would be like for you"?
Can you describe what you meant, how it feels, etc? Maybe cats don't experience the same things humans do, but what does a high or low number feel like?

Carl
 
karenkarma said:
I DID IT! I tested his blood sugar without help. It is 326.
Click to expand...
Terrific! Welcome to the Vampire club :-D

karenkarma said:
...He is going to need more insulin in general i think. But. I am not going to give him more until he has his teeth cleaned. I heard that can help his numbers....When we found out he was diabetic he was in DKA....
Click to expand...

With a former DKA cat, you need to control the glucose asap or risk having that again, with very expensive vet care and risk of death. That means not waiting until after the teeth are cleaned. ProZinc is an in and out insulin, so you can increase if you know how low he is going. If he isn't going below 50 mg/dL on a human meter, or 80 mg/dL on a pet specific meter, you can increase in small amounts (0.2 - 0.25 units depending on your syringe).
 
Good morning Karen and Tommy,

Hope things are on a more even keel this am. Hope you were able to get a number this am and that is was in a better range.

As a diabetic, I know you know about ketones, but this page describes the process in cats.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/ketones.htm

If he won't let you collect a sample easily, we have other suggestions. Some people can just stick the strip in the cat's urine stream, but not every one. :mrgreen:
 
Carl & Bob (GA) said:
Hi Karen,
I'm just curious regarding a comment you made earlier. You said that you "knew what a 564 would be like for you"?
Can you describe what you meant, how it feels, etc? Maybe cats don't experience the same things humans do, but what does a high or low number feel like?
Click to expand...

Low feels like warp-speed starvation in most cases. I get abnormally hungry, shaky, weak and irritable.

High makes me extremely tired, sometimes achy and I upset people because I become argumentative and really down for "no reason". I become desperately thirsty whether there are ketones or dehydration present or not. Sometimes I get sleepy also. Oh, and have blurred vision. Can't forget that one.

Please don't laugh, but I started wondering about Tommy's diabetes because he didn't want to be held as much, began attacking the garbage can and knocking things off the counter that he didn't even want, drank constantly, even jumping onto my lap and struggling with me just to lick the condensation off my soda can and suddenly lost patience with the other animals he usually played with all the time. He was wandering around with his eyes half closed a lot too.

--
I will have to learn to test for ketones. That cat does not want me anywhere near the litter box when he goes.

I was hoping the teeth cleaning would be today, but no such luck. I am not taking him back to the vet just to get his blood sugar tested when i have learned to do it myself. That vet is less educated about it than I am!!! I have to find a new one.

Since the time for that is indefinite and he can't run around with his blood sugar 300, I guess I have to raise it. His blood sugar went down some with an extra .5 a few times, but it is still running over 300. I think he is going to end up needing 2 if it is staying THAT high. I have already moved it to 1.5. And since it's not a depot insulin I don't know if I should go ahead and move it up a little bit.
 
To test Oliver for ketones, we had to put aquarium gravel in a clean litter box. He would have to "christen" the new box and we could get a sample as it wasn't absorbed.

To know whether you need to increase, you need a few midcycle numbers. Any way to get one today?

Last night Donna had a spreadsheet with Tommy's numbers. Do you have access to it? Can you put it in your signature? (i can help if you are not sure how)
 
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