5/8 Trixie PMBG 97 - Thank you!

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Amy&TrixieCat

Amy&TrixieCat

Member Since 2011
Yesterday

As usual, I cannot thank everyone enough for all your support and ideas last night. I hit a wall and was in SERIOUS meltdown mode. Everything just culminated...Trix's illness; not one but two bad pill experience in one day; finding the cheeked pills; the absolute fear about not being able to get these pills in her and the fact that she NEEDS them, not only to feel well, but to be well; seeing her all punch drunk and uncomfortable after the bupe; the other kitties having some "social issues" because Trix is getting more attention right now; still processing my Dad's illness; issues at work with the store struggling in crappy economy so I'm working full time with no income...and have a year and half to go on the lease. All kinds of fun stuff.

But, today is a new day, and we are both doing much better. Trix has actually eaten very well this morning. And, despite all the trauma, she ate very well last night...although, because of the bupe, she was eating like s sloppy drunk who couldn't control her tongue.

I did manage to get pill pocketed BP pills into her this morning without further trauma. I offered them at our usual time of 5:30...no go. I offered again at about 7:15...she sniffed, thought about it, but no go. But, she was hungry and ate a wonderful portion of breffis. After that, I re-offered the pills as "dessert"....I held my breath as she sniffed, taste-tested, and then finally ate them. PHEW. I'm sure all of you heard my big sigh of relief.

Those were her only pills this morning. I skipped the cypro since she was eating well, and we gave her the dreaded liquid famotidine to be sure it got in her. I ended up skipping it last night because she had already been so traumatized and she really really hates the liquid. Fortunately skipping it doesn't seem to have caused any sort of setback.

I touched base with our vetty yesterday afternoon. There really wasn't much new news there, although I was the one who brought up possibly using the bupe. I asked about it because there are times I can't quite tell if Trix is uncomfortable or not...they can be so hard to read. So she did say we could try the bupe for a few days and see what happens...if it causes a positive change, then we could/should continue. But I tell you, one dose was enough to see...she really doesn't seem to tolerate it well. If she was really in pain, then I'd be OK with the loopiness, but she was so miserable because of the bupe that I am not continuing with that experiment. I feel horrible for having even tried it. When she had her dental a few years ago, with 7 extractions, she had no problem with the bupe at all...it made her one happy, all about the luv, Woodstock style cat. Not this time. But I can relate...I used to be able to take percocet and now it makes me horribly seasick. Our bodies change.

She also wants to recheck Trix's BP in a couple weeks, since their needs can change. That got me thinking (in the middle of the night when I should have been sleeping) that maybe part of what is going on is that her BP is a bit low now, and that's why her energy is off. She actually seemed quite peppy earlier this morning, and now she's snoozing, but I'm going to try to monitor her energy levels now that it's been a few hours since she had those meds. Of course, it could also just be part of the p-titis....no way of knowing for sure, which is just so damn frustrating. Anyway, I may end up taking her sooner for a BP check if I think that is causing her lower energy levels. I guess time will tell...

Here are my questions:

GelCaps/Pilling:
Elise and Tricia (every time I try to type "Tricia" it always comes out "Trixia" :lol: !!) use gelcaps for meds, and I know there are others who do, too. I actually do have some "3" gelcaps (thank you Josie and Marje!!), but I haven't attempted to use them yet. How do you pill a cat with those things? I'm really afraid of choking her...they are small - but not compared to her teeny tiny little mouth! I'm going to try to use PPs as much as possible (I'm hoping to rebuild her trust in both me and PPs), but I do need some sort of back up system.

@Mariko - You are so creative with pilling ideas! I tried the raw morsel thing last night. Trix didn't go for it...but maybe that was the bupe talking. I do use a few kibbles now and they seem to help. I use a teeny tiny piece of PP for wrapping the pill, then I stick it to a kibble to help ensure chewing and swallowing. But I could try wetting a kibble as another trick, too.

Insulin:
Her numbers are a bit higher, but she's still bringing herself down without juice. I'd like to stay on the "no juice" path as long as I can...until I feel secure about her being better, and until I regain my own confidence (which is so shot these days!).

What do you guys think...does this sound like an OK plan? Or since her numbers are starting to creep up, should I start supporting her pancreas with a teeny tiny bit of juice soon?

Thank you again for all your support, advice, suggestions, and love. I couldn't do this without you....

Amy
 
Re: 5/8 Trixie AMBG 176 "+4" 109 BETTER; GelCaps?; Insulin?

Morning Amy,
I was wondering about trying a lower dose of bupe. Shadow gets dysphoric on pain meds so we experimented and tried the lowest possible dose of bupe and it
has been helping a lot.
Just like people, we all have different tolerance levels....
it would be worth a try.

And does Trixie like cheese ? if she liked something like Feta which is kinda slimy on it's own.... it would be easy to shove a pill in a lump of it.
And I've even had luck with scrambling an egg and using one of the lumps that way. ( Shadow loves scrambled eggs)
 
Re: 5/8 Trixie AMBG 176 "+4" 109 BETTER; GelCaps?; Insulin?

I did nudge her bupe dose down a bit last night, but you are right, Rhiannon...I could try even lower if we need to give it another go.

I don't know if Trix likes cheese, actually. DH and I are vegan, so we don't have any cheese in the house! I could "borrow" some from my Mom, though, to see what Trix thinks. I tried cheese with our civvie, Zen, a couple years ago, and since he'd never had it before, he didn't know what to do with it :lol: !

@Elise: To answer your question about Trix's meds...she gets amlodipine, benazipril, 5mg famotidine twice a day for sure. She gets cerenia every other day. For the moment, we're holding back on the ondansetron, but we do have it should we need it. We're also playing it by ear with the cypro. Today, she is eating really, really well so I skipped it.
 
Re: 5/8 Trixie AMBG 176 "+4" 109 BETTER; GelCaps?; Insulin?

Amy,
I am so glad Trixie is eating better today!!!
Really so happy to hear that.

I've used gelcaps a few times.
I use it when I know for sure that I can't fool her, or whenever she's so sick she wouldn't eat a bite of anything.

I don't know the size of my capsules, but it was the smallest the compound pharmacy had.
If the pill is smaller, I always cut the edge of inside capsule to make it "shorter".
Sometimes, I break the pill, so the broken pieces fit in a "shortened" capsules.
I usually still wrap it with a bit of food or coat it with a bit of butter, to make it slide down her throat easier.
Because I worry that the capsule might stick somewhere in her esophagus.
I do syringe some water after pilling, but Lucy hates the chaser part too, so I try to make it slippery in case I can't get enough water afterwards.

Hugs to you!!! :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 5/8 Trixie AMBG 176 "+4" 109 BETTER; GelCaps?; Insulin?

sorry to hear you and Trixie are struggling. It does seem like things come at you all at once sometimes.

I had to give my Sammy pills twice a day for two years. His morning pill was tiny and must not have tasted too bad, because he would take that in a treat. He didn't like pill pockets, but he LOVED the Whisker Lickins' soft treats. They are cheap too (yes they have carbs, but if she needs the pills then so be it). What ended up working best was taking the already tiny 1/2 pill and cutting it in half again, then using just half a treat to wrap 1/4 of the pill. That made a small enough piece that he would usually gulp it down without chewing. Just watch to be sure she doesn't spit the pill out. Give a non-tainted treat after just for good measure. I know Sammy knew there were pills in the treat, but he seemed to think it was a worthwhile tradeoff to get the treats. You could also try rolling the soft treat in chicken dust or in dry food dust to make it more tempting.

In the evening he got 4 pills, and a couple of them were really bitter. No way he was taking those in treats, so I used gel caps and a pill popper.

IMHO this the BEST pill popper: http://www.amazon.com/Buster-Piller-With-Soft-Syringe/dp/B007RQQKWC/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

You can get it far back in the mouth fairly easily without losing a finger, and it puts a little force behind the pill instead of just kind of dropping it in the back of the throat like most pill poppers. Usually it goes right down. Supposedly you can put a little water in behind the pill too, though I haven't tried that. When I had to pill Sammy every day, I would put his pills into a gel cap, smear a tiny bit of butter on it, then use the pill popper to get it into the back of his throat. Most of the time it worked and I don't even think Sammy realized he had swallowed a pill. He had a lot of pills so I used a #3 gel cap, but there are also #4 that are made for cats and are smaller. They even come in chicken flavor, though I'm sure that doesn't make a difference.
 
Re: 5/8 Trixie AMBG 176 "+4" 109 BETTER; GelCaps?; Insulin?

I am so sorry things got bad yesterday. ((((Hugs)))) Today is a new day and will be better. I have no ideas on the pilling. I do it the old fashion way and just stick the pill down the throat. T would never ever take it any other way. I don't blame you on waiting on the insulin. She is still looking really good in that department. You have definitely had your share of things going on and deserve a meltdown. ((((AMY))))
 
Re: 5/8 Trixie AMBG 176 "+4" 109 BETTER; GelCaps?; Insulin?

Thank you, everyone! Soooooo many wonderful suggestions and amazing support. We WILL figure out the best way to get the pills down when we have PP issues. I am starting to feel more secure with the gelcaps. It definitely makes the most sense to get 'em all down in one tasteless shot. We got through learning ear pokes, shots, and sub Qs, so we can get this, too.....

Trix has eaten very well today...the best I've seen since this all started. She is comfortably snoozing in her rocker. I'm about to head out for fuds shopping...yay :roll: !

Thank you, thank you, thank you!
 
Re: 5/8 Trixie AMBG 176 "+4" 109 BETTER; GelCaps?; Insulin?

Trix has eaten very well today...the best I've seen since this all started. She is comfortably snoozing in her rocker.
Click to expand...
WOOT!! :cool: :cool: :cool: WTG Trixie!

(((Amy))) - we know you will succeed at these latest challenges - you can do it. :YMHUG:
 
Re: 5/8 Trixie AMBG 176 "+4" 109 BETTER; GelCaps?; Insulin?

I'm sorry to hear that you had such a hard day yesterday. But Trix is eating and feeling better and that is what is important.

Most of what I would suggest has already been mentioned. Tess doesn't like pill either, or pill pockets. Any soft treat would work as well as a pill pocket, we use her UT treats and she gobbles the cypro down in them. She tends to leave food w/ her Zobaline in it, but she is insane for butter. So i crush the Zobaline and mix it into a dab of soft butter. Pink butter looks weird, but she has no problem w/ it. Baby food is another alternative, although I don't know how bad tasting the other pills Trixie needs taste.

Here's the link to the flavored gel caps. They have beef flavored too. I haven't needed to try them yet, but have them bookmarked for the future.
 
Re: 5/8 Trixie AMBG 176 "+4" 109 BETTER; GelCaps?; Insulin?

It's so wonderful to hear that Trixie is eating well on her own. That is HUGE in her recovery. :-D

I, too, was nervous about choking the cat with the gelcaps. I mostly use the #4, but I have some #3, too. Sasha is a small cat, and I use a pill popper to shoot it into her throat and follow with a little water to make sure she swallows. She has had no problem with that (the problem is getting her mouth open in the first place. The little stinker has jaws of steel!). I haven't had to try coating it with butter, but that's not a bad idea. I would have to be careful that it didn't slide out of the popper before I got it into her mouth, though. :lol: Good luck. I know you'll get it figured out.

Sending continued recovery vines for Trixie, and hugs for you. :YMHUG:

I don't mind if you call me Trixia - I've been called worse! ;-) :lol:
 
Re: 5/8 Trixie AMBG 176 "+4" 109 BETTER; GelCaps?; Insulin?

((Amy)))

I'm so very sorry to hear things have been a challenge. Keeping both you, Trix, and your dad in our prayers.

Since I've been gone, these things might have been suggested so please forgive me if they have. I know you have enough to deal with than repetitive suggestions.

The famotidine can be injectable. Is that a possibility? The vet can convert the dose to units and you could use U100 insulin syringes to inject the famotidine.

The dupe dose can be cut way back. It has quite a dosing threshold. If you think she is in pain, perhaps half the dose. Gus could have from 0.1-0.25 mls tid. We dosed him 0.1ml bid and it was just perfect for keeping him comfy but even we could not tell that it had any other effects on him.

I think the pill popper is a good idea. Gus took those caps in pill pockets so we were ok. I would suggest, though, that you first give her some water from a syringe to get her throat wet. Then do the pill. Then give her another 3 mls of water or baby food or something to be sure the cap gets washed down. I have also used butter on pills but not caps but it is another good way to get it down, as Libby suggested.
 
Thank you, everyone, for all the tips and ideas and encouragement! This evening I was successful in getting famotidine and BP meds via Whisker Lickins dusted with FortiFlora. She wasn't interested in them by themselves, but the FortiFlora did the trick. Now, if this will work again tomorrow...who knows. I need to work up my courage to try the gel caps...as long as I can sneak things in through treats, I'm willing to go that route to keep both our stress levels down as much as possible. But, now I know all the gelcap secrets and that is a huge help!

Her appy is OK so far this evening...she's needing a bit more encouragement. It is not a cerenia night, although I do wonder how successful I was with last night's fiascos...I don't know. Now that I have the BP meds successfully down the hatch, I may try to slip her some cypro in a bit. She is eating OK and I don't want to overwhelm her tummy too much, though...it is so hard figuring out the balance.

I'm going to try to get her BP checked tomorrow, for my own peace of mind. It will tell me if her lowered energy is just part of the p-titis recovery, or if her BP is too low now, since the vet did mention their needs can change - and we did have to often adjust Mario's BP meds. I don't know if I'll be able to get her an appointment at the correct time, though, since it needs to be about 6 hours after meds.

@Marje - I did ask the vet about the injectible famotidine when this all first started. If I remember correctly - because stress has fuzzed up my brain - the vet wanted to hold off on the injection because we were injecting cerenia at first, then ondansetron twice a day, plus fluids and the possibility of insulin. I think she was thinking that was already enough needle sticks per day. But, I'll ask about it again....I honestly wish I could have a magic cocktail of all her meds made that I could inject in one fell swoop. At this point, shots are SO much easier than any other method!

Time to attempt to relax...I don't know why, but I always get way more anxious at night....
 
I'm glad things are going better today for you and Trixie. I hope you can get the BP check tomorrow at the time you need.
 
((Amy)) I am so sorry to hear about last night with Trixie and your dad and everything else. Keeping you all in my prayers. I'm happy to hear that she's eating better today and eating her pill pockets. <anti-jinx> Sending good appy vines and good pill taking vines!!
 
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