5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - PMPS 459

Status
Not open for further replies.
kryskat

kryskat

Very Active Member
Ok - I opened up a new vial of test strips this morning. Using the last of the old vial, her number was 474, using the new vial it was 500. So, I opened yet another new vial and tested. Then I realized my meter had somehow gotten recoded so I fixed the number but and retested. The new vial that I'd opened (where I'd gotten the 500 reading) now said 525 and the OTHER vial (with the same expiration date as my original vial - this is confusing) said 503. So, I'm sticking with 500. And I am seriously wondering at this point why I am even bothering going through all this work when her numbers are this high. I am beyond depressed. I know this is a continuing theme, but I'm ready to give up. Is this another bounce? How much damage is this doing to her? I feel like I am killing myself over this and all 3 of my cats are dying anyway. Why am I even bothering? I'm going to end up in a mental ward.

When I went to sleep last night, her numbers were in the blue. I don't know what to do. Is she getting too much insulin - causing too much fluctuation? Or not enuf? What can I do to stop this?!?!?!?!?

Yesterday's Condo
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Another BOUNCE???? HELP...

Don't give up. You're doing the best you can. Maybe Kasha went lower last night.
Others will be along to help you. For now, how is Kasha acting? Do you have any chocolate in the house for yourself?
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Another BOUNCE???? HELP...

I just looked at your SS--In the last few months your cat has been on so many different doses. You also have been dose hopping--To take Kasha down & up so many times, is causing the big difference in your numbers...0.50U does not seem like enough insulin to get this cat out of the high numbers. Please also check for ketones with the ketodiastix, it is important..
Are you measuring correctly?--Have you looked at the dosing picture in the stickys on the heading page??
Please do.. Listen, even have measured a few drops off from time to time, but, not that much..
Have you been asking for dosing help from our dose helpers???--Please put dosing advice in your subject heading...

I know you are trying very hard & it is frustrating, but you need some help here...Many times I cried from what was going on with Moonie--
Consistancy & patience works here with lantus--Please also give a dose time to settle-6 cycles(3 full days)-
I do feel for you, but I think dosing advice is very much needed--You are doing the best job you can-Keep trying!!!
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Another BOUNCE???? HELP...

I am really sorry that you are feeling hopeless and depressed Krys. This could possibly be due to a bounce from the blue. LTS - Liver Training School - can last a while, especially if kitty isn't used to getting lower numbers.

I have not been following you guys much, sorry, time only allows so many condo's, so I don't know to much about what may be going on with Kasha. When I looked at your ss, I noticed that Kasha was getting some really good numbers on the .75 then you decreased to .25. I understand why you doscreased (that 34 on 4/18) but why so much? We usually decrease/increase in .25 increments, so the decrease should have only been to .5u.

Now, I'm putting this out here for thought....Is it possible that Kasha needs to get more insulin? My thoughts are yes, BUT I am not a dosing expert. If this were Spot, I would be thinking that an increase would be warrented. Also, I noticed that you are doing a lot of dose hopping. Consistent dosing is very important! Another thought is that is it possible that there is something else going on w/Kasha? Does she need a dental? Is there some kind of infection? Again, just throwing that out there.

Hang in there, Krys. You've got alot of moral support here. We will help you through this rough period. Believe me, I know exactly how you feel.....take a look at Spot's ss....I know about the heavy heart and the tears and the frustration. I know how hard it is to see those red numbers...my meter only went to 500, so when I saw a HI, i always got sick to my stomach. So, I know....((((Krys)))
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Another BOUNCE???? HELP...

I agree with Deb--Put "Dosing Advice" in your subject heading & maybe Libby, Monique, D, or one fo those knowledgeable on dosing will see it this morning--We do feel for you, but it WILL get better once you find the correct dose--Sending you HUGS~!!!
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Another BOUNCE???? HELP...

I am sorry this is so hard for you.....it can be very overwhelming at first.
I noticed on your ss that Kasha had a UTI not too long ago.....is there a chance she may still have one. Is she acting ok? How is she eating?

Roni, due to the Kasha's big drops she was advised to lower the dose.

I do think right now Kasha is bouncing from the blue last night. She may have gone a little lower after the 173 which may be why the big bounce today.
Were you having a problem with your meter? I was just wondering since you posted about opening a couple of vials of stips.

Hang in there. You are doing a great job. Unfortunately it does take some time to get to the correct dose which she may be at.
I am sure you will get more feedback from some very experienced people today. Please ask for help whenever you need it.....this is what this board is all about.
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Another BOUNCE???? HELP...

On the days that DPS shot and tested, did you get a confirmation on what dose that was?
Try and hang on.
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Another BOUNCE???? HELP...

We all know how frustrating this can be. If you look at Gabby's SS, you'll see she still bounces around. Look at 5/3 to 5/4 -- she bounced from a 31 to a 450. It's also very hard to look at your own SS and objectively evaluate what to do. So, take a deep breath and look at as much of your SS as your computer screen will allow.

Here's what I see... When you were dosing at 0.75u you were seeing more yellow, blue, and green. Once you dropped the dose to 0.25ish and the amount in the shed decreased, numbers started going up into the pinks and reds. You were beginning to get some response to the 0.5u dose and then you went on vacation and who knows what happened or how on schedule shots were or how accurately people were measuring doses. When you got back, you started with a skinny 0.5u. You held the dose for 6 cycles and just raised Kasha's dose and got some blue peeking through and a bounce.

So, what do I think. I think you will need to increase the dose but you'll do it gradually. Some cats bounce more than others, a lot more. When you visit condos, look at SSs. If Randi/Max post, look at Max's SS. His drops and bounces can be as dramatic as Gabby's. Look at Mannie's SS, as well. Liver Training School is a process. If numbers stayed flat and low too early in this process it would put a great deal of pressure on the pancreas to keep numbers down and it would probably burn out whatever functioning beta cells are there. The bouncing is part of the process of letting Kasha's body adjust and of finding the right dose. You've got to keep in mind that the only thing you have control over is the amount of insulin in the syringe. Kasha controls everything else. She leads the dance; we just follow.
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Another BOUNCE???? HELP...

Huh. The first month on my spreadsheet does contain dose hopping, but that was before I started coming to this forum and I was trying to find protocols online but got incomplete info. Everything after that, most of the last month should NOT be dose hopping - I don't understand why people are claiming that. Every change I've made since coming to this forum has been due to suggestions on this forum. The .75 she was on when she started going into low numbers was actually more of a fat .5 most l likely. I changed the type of syringes I use to get ones with half unit markings and when I measured the same way I'd been measuring - it was a fat .5 approx - NOT .75. Now, the syringes may be different, but I can't tell you if that's the case because I can't measure between them. Anyway - THAT is why the drop to a fat .25 - because it should have been an approx .25 reduction - not a .5 unit reduction - it just looks that way because I THOUGHT originally that I was giving .75 units. I put comments in the spreadsheet to this effect.

A UTI caused her numbers to jump supposedly, and it took a while to get them lower - at which point I was out of town for a week.

She dropped down to 88 2 nights ago and then apparently bounced. I fed her to keep her from dropping any more cuz she'd dropped so quickly, not sure if she would have dropped more. That was on a s.5 (not sure about the .5 in the morning - that could be a mistake, I don't see why I would have varied it from s.5). I have not verified for sure if the pet sitters followed the dosing instructions I got here - which were to skip doses under 150, give .25 units at 150 - 250 and give a skinny .5 over 250. These instructions were given to me here and were based on Kasha's precipitous number dives in previous days, just to be safe while I was gone.

I feel like she's bouncing a lot. I haven't been around to monitor nadirs except for some evening measures, so I'm not sure - I just got home on Sunday. If I increase her dose, wouldn't I just increase the bounce? I would expect (and what do I know?) that if I were getting a flatter curve, I'd be more comfortable increasing her dose.

Maybe I should just remove everything from Kasha's spreadsheet before I came to this forum so people will stop saying I'm dose hopping. I just put a comment in.
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Dosing Advice?

Hello,

I'll echo what others have said, it looks to me that the reds of this morning are the result of the blues last night. It's liver-training-school and it's extremely common around here. You just have to hang tight, eat chocolate, ice cream... whatever it takes... I'm sorry you feel depressed about the situation, we've all been in the same boat.

The key here is to show Kasha'a liver what normal numbers are. What I mean is that the liver has forgotten that blue and green numbers are good and normal numbers. The memory of the liver has been adjusted to a new norm if you'd like. So, the goal is to keep showing real normal number to the liver so it stops panicking and dumping sugar back into the system - causing the bounce.

As you've already been told, rebound can last up to 72 hours and as you can see in your SS, the bounce from the last green lasted 48 hours. Kasha's liver is learning already....

Please hang tight, we have, just like yourself, Kasha's safety at heart.
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Dosing Advice?

Thanks for clarifying things for me. Like I said in my previous post, I haven't been following your condo's much. My sincere apologies if I've added to your frustration.
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Dosing Advice?

Dont take any comments as negative--PLEASE--We all do this when we are first here--The whole thing is a process, trial & error, and no one thinks any less of you--We ALL know you are just trying to help Kasha--We have all been in the same place.
Pleasse dont take these comments as criticism --Like i didnt know you were told to lower the dose--I just was confused as to why--Now I know..
It will all become clear to you, when you feel more comfortable here--We have all been where you are..
Heck, sometimes I think Moonie is still in LTS!!
But finding the right dose, while it is a challenge, is the key--And yes, it is all in the cat's hands(Paws I should say :lol: )
Please stay calm, breathe, eat chocolate(or whatever you like) and there is a great support system here for you!
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Dosing Advice?

Krys --

Just one other piece of info. There is a certain amount of error variance in any piece of equipment. Other than catching that your meter needed to be recoded (which was a good catch -- and you know that not all meters require coding, right), if you do multiple tests at roughly the same time and even off of the same drop of blood, you will get slightly different results. There's usually anywhere up to a 20% variance. It can be crazy making! It can also be a way to wrangle a number down (you get a test at 305 and the next test is 295, for example - the yellow is nicer than the pink!). If you repeat the tests and you're getting numbers that are driving you crazy, don't keep re-testing. It will only add to your frustration. Just keep in mind that there's error variance associated with any measurement.

Kasha will get there. As frustrating as it is right now, she'll get there.
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Dosing Advice?

I only retested several times this morning because I was opening a new vial of test strips and wanted to see how the numbers compared to the old ones (I know there is a variance when you repeat tests, but usually the test strips are within a reasonable "closeness" when I open a new vial). This time it seemed like the new vial was higher (more variance than I normally see) and I don't have any control solution to test. So I opened my last vial (which had the same expiration date as the originals I was using) and it was closer to the original numbers, so I'm using that vial of test strips now. It wasn't to second guess the reading, I guess is what I'm trying to say - just to verify the test strips were consistent.

She was in the blue (179) at about +6 today. I skipped lunch and drove home to check her, although I'm going to have to stay late at work now, I just had to see what was happening in the middle of her cycle.

Also worked out that my dad was at my house and he came up to watch me test her. A couple weeks ago, he was testing her for me when he'd stop by, but after the DPS events of last week, she hides when anyone shows up at my house other than me. So, he hasn't been able to find her, much less get near her. I thought it would help, possibly, if she saw us together and he pet her a little while I was there so she'd remember he was a "safe" person. She really, really was upset that I was gone last week. Or maybe more truthfully, she was really, really upset that OTHER PEOPLE WERE THERE, TOUCHING HER, while I was gone.

I'm calming down a little now that I saw some blue today. At least I know she's spending a little of the day in decent numbers.

BTW, haven't been able to check for ketones today (I thought maybe when she went up to 500 I should check) cuz I haven't caught her at the litter box (I have 3 cats - can't tell who did what) but when I checked a few days ago or so she was negative for them.
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Dosing Advice? 179~+6

BTW - sorry I got so frustrated. My only excuse is that I have 3 cats who all got sick at the same time and I'm struggling constantly to stay afloat. I appreciate your support, really I do.
 
Re: 5/6 Kasha AMPS 500 - Dosing Advice? 179~+6

She wasn't that hungry tonight and I'm tired of forcing the issue so... she eats what she eats. Hopefully she'll graze over the next hour or two. She is feisty and playful (or aggressive, but that's how she plays - sometimes the only way to tell she's playing is she'll have her ears up in friendly ear posture while she's ripping your hand apart and possibly purring with satisfaction over the whole thing).

I'll probably ask for dosing advice tomorrow, since I'll be able to monitor her Friday night and Sat morning hopefully in case I increase her dose. Hopefully I'll get some more readings tonight to see how low she goes, since last night I really wanted one more reading but I fell asleep.
 
I'm so happy you got a blue number today.
I'm so sorry that you are going through all of this and I can only imagine how it feels to have three kitties that all got sick at one time. That has to be very stressful.
I hope that tomorrow is much better or you!!!
 
Good news about Friday PM and Saturday testing time.
Hope your feeling better -- it really is tough to have one sick kitty but three...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top