5/31 Garbo 90 (AMPS), 104 +3, 146 +4

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Melissa&Garbo

Melissa&Garbo

Member Since 2011
I am really perplexed about Garbo and feel like there is something I'm just not understanding. :sad:

5/28 was the day where we struggled to keep her out of the hypo zone. I dropped her dose down to 1.5u from 3u for the next 2 days. Things seemed to be doing ok, but then this morning's AMPS reading was 46. ARGH! No shot and I tested at 1 hr past normal shot time (Is that +13?) and still only 47. I guess I have two questions:

1. How many increasing readings are needed to determine that the rise is actual rising, and not just the result of the food?
2. How long can one hold off on shooting (stalling?) before it is too late to give the AM shot?

Thanks in advance (again!) LL!
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

Unfortunately, I can't answer your questions, and I hope that someone will be along shortly to help you.

Otherwise, those are beautiful #s! :) The only thing that I can suggest is continue to monitor her.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

i do know that when you're stalling to get a safe enough number to shoot, you don't want to feed them. that way you are catching the natural rise in blood sugar as the insulin wears down rather than getting a higher number and having it be from food.

the link about shooting when you've got a low number is in my sig line - i stuck it there so i could find it when i need it. think post it notes stuck on your face! :lol:
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

Julie - Hahaha! A post it note on your face! :lol:

If this happens again, I will withhold the food (heaven help us) and keep testing to get more accurate readings.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

Did you feed Garbo? What kind of food did you give, how much, and when? While Julie is correct that you generally don't want to feed if you are stalling and waiting for numbers to rise naturally so you can shoot, the exception to that is when the number is in the 40s (or below).

You want to test every 15-30 minutes while you are stalling, so you catch when she turns around and starts rising. When food is in the picture, you will need to be more careful and stall a bit longer, because she may rise initially from the food, and then drop back down. As a rule, you want to shoot by +14 if you are going to...most people have a hard time getting back on schedule if you stall too long.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

thanks for correcting me on that, laurie! i sure don't want to be saying wrong info - and am glad the post is there with the accurate instructions. stuck on my face, that is!
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

In addition to Laurie's info, Garbo earned a dose reduction when you have a low pre-shot that's not shootable.

I want to encourage you to get some PM spot checks. What you saw this morning is why. You have no idea just how low Garbo went overnight.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

I fed her the normal breakfast amount (dry M/D...I know...we are trying to get away from that), so that's probably going to have an effect. We haven't been doing this long enough for me to even know what kind of effect food has on her.

Ok, so if she normally eats & gets shot at 8 AM, then I probably need to make the decision to shoot or not shoot by 10 AM. Is that right? We're approaching that, so I'm going to test again and see where we are. If I do shoot at +14, what time should her evening shot be to catch up?
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

Thanks Sienne! I had thought we might be up for a reduction, considering this morning's numbers, but wasn't sure. I'll start getting 1 or 2 post PM shot checks to see what happens in that cycle.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

Just wanted to wish you luck with finding that right dose for Garbo! I know it can be so frustrating! Let us know how he does today!!

Go Bucs!
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

She's at 66 now at +14 - shoot 1 unit (down from 1.5) or skip altogether?
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

Do you have high carb wet food in the house? Dry food takes too long to work, and hangs around too long afterwards. You don't want your kitty surfing the 40s.

There's a lot to talk about here.....what is she eating, all dry, part wet, what is her feeding schedule? Also, when you see numbers in the 40s, you want to give a tsp of HC food and retest in 15-20 minutes, and repeat testing/feeding HC in small amounts until she's out of the 40s. You don't want to wait an hour between tests, she could drop lower during that time....especially if you are using dry food, it takes way too long to kick in.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

How closely can you monitor today? Do you have strips and HC in the house? And, can you afford to be 2 hours off schedule?

As for food, M/D is 13% carb. I feed canned Wellness. It's around 4% carb. Garbo has been OTJ. If you want to get Garbo back to being diet controlled, you need to be religiously feeding a low carb diet otherwise, you are working at cross purposes with the insulin.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

Sienne asked all the questions I would have.

You will need to work your way back on schedule by shooting 15 minutes early on each shot, or 30 minutes early once per day. Will you be able to do that? If not, you may need to skip this shot.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

She eats mostly dry with only occasional wet. I'm trying to get her to take more of the wet, but she hates change. We have HC wet food and plenty of strips. I'm working from home today, so can monitor her as often as needed. She eats twice a day, about a 1/4 c each feeding. If we shoot now, how do we get back on schedule?
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

Hi guys, don't think I have ever been in Garbo's condo before, so welcome from us! You have plenty of people here giving you good advice so we'll just say, very nice start to the day garbo, hope you guys have a great day!
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

I can definitely adjust to get her back on track. So, if I shoot now at about 10:30 AM, then tonight I'd shoot at 10:15 PM? Then again at 10 AM tomorrow?
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

Get another test at 10:30, if she is continuing to rise and you are comfortable with the number, then you can shoot. If 1.0u is comfortable for you, that's fine. Then come back...we need to talk.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

Hello Melissa & Garbo!! We have never stopped by and just wanted to say hello! Tarragon was a dry addicted cat as well and it took a month or so to switch him over but you will get there. I know it is all confusing right now and over whelming. I still feel that way a lot of the time. In the beginning you have so many questions. Don't be afraid to ask! There are some really smart people on here and we all have the same goal, to help our babies. I can't give you much advice, but wanted to welcome you.

Hope you have a great day!!
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

How did you get Garbo OTJ with feeding dry food? I would really encourage you to try to transition. It's harder to get a cat into remission a second time and the dry food is not helping. I would not be surprised if this isn't what's causing the swings in numbers. I honestly think if you switched Garbo to LC canned, she'd be back in remission.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

Thank you again for all the warm welcomes and help for this newbie! :smile:

She's at 90 now, so I shot 1.0u. She can finally relax and take a nap, as she was perturbed that I didn't give her the shot as we normally do this morning. What a creature of habit! :lol:

After what I've read on the board of other kitties and their struggles, I don't know either how we achieved remission last time with dry food. It probably took longer than it would have if I had stuck to my guns about the LC wet. I'm going to try harder to make the transition this time so that we might have to take insulin for only a little while.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo AMPS 46, No Shot - Questions

This is the lowest you have ever shot, so please start out with a +1 and +2.

For putting this data in the SS...the 90 is your AMPS, you can move the other tests to the comments section, or put them in the +11 box from the PM cycle with notes about times...whichever is easiest for you.

It's not only harder to go OTJ with dry, it is also much more difficult to manage the numbers with the TR protocol. The reason we can keep our kitties in lower numbers and keep them safe is because we can use food to manipulate the cycle. Wet food gets into their system quickly, and gets out quickly too. Dry food is much slower and sticks around too long. I would really encourage you to work on transitioning her to LC wet food. There are plenty of tips on Dr. Lisa's site.

For the shot tonight, you would shoot 15 minutes earlier than you shot this morning, at +11.75.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo +12 46, +14 90 (AMPS) - Questions Answered!

The article on feline nutrition is excellent! I can tell that we have a couple of things going for us that will help in the transition: Grace & Garbo eat separately, and they eat at predetermined meal times twice a day. I don't have to pick up uneaten food because within about 10 minutes they are both done eating. Free feeding has never been a thing for us as they have struggled with their weight and meals were the only way to rein this in (somewhat, Garbo is still hefty). I like the idea of slowly transitioning her using the tips in the article, especially starting out with switching dry brands in transition. They have many great brands (EVO, Wellness, etc.) at our local feed store nearby. I can also get the wet and LC treats (for shot time) there.

I'm kinda relieved that she is not the only cat who balks at the transition initially, and that I am not the only bean who caves in after the howling and hunger striking begins. We'll get there, I am confident!
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo +12 46, +14 90 (AMPS) - Questions Answered!

You are by no means the only person who has a cat who's a dry food (aka "crack") addict.

One other hint. FortiFlora is a probiotic made by Purina. It contains some of the same coating that's on dry food -- it's the stuff that smells and tastes so appealing to our kitties. Except, the FortiFlora doesn't have carbs. You could sprinkle a pinch over Garbo's canned food. Most cats love FortiFlora. (You can buy it through Amazon or PetFood Direct.) I wouldn't use a lot. Some cats can get constipated with it but a pinch or two would be fine.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo +12 46, +14 90 (AMPS) - Questions Answered!

104 at +3! So glad she didn't turn the other direction after the shot. My nerves can't take those low numbers. ;-)
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo 90 (AMPS), 104 +3

Whenever you shoot your lowest PS ever, you should start out with a +1 and +2. Please get another test at +4 so you can see which way she is going.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo 90 (AMPS), 104 +3

Laurie - I will do! Somehow that flew by me the first time.

Sienne - Thanks for the tip on the FortiFlora. It's good to hear that it works and will help during our transition.
 
Re: 5/31 Garbo 90 (AMPS), 104 +3

We're at 146 at the +4 mark, so it looks like she's heading up but still in the blue. Should I next check at +6?
 
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