5/28 Munchkin PMPS 264/282;

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Munchkin's Reagan

Munchkin's Reagan

Member Since 2012
Morning all,
I'm about to shoot Munchkin's lowest number so far. I can be with her all day today. My +10 last cycle was higher 241 but that could easily just be the 20% variance, correct? Or should I be waiting and make sure she is headed up?

5/25 condo

I hope everyone has a fabulous Memorial Day!
 
Re: 5/28 Munchkin AMPS 229, lowest yet. (+10 241)

Not only would I shoot, I think Munchkin is due for a dose increase to 1.25u. If you're around to monitor, all the better. When a kitty comes back from the Falls, you want to be a bit more aggressive.

In answer to your question, the numbers are definitely within meter variance.
 
Re: 5/28 Munchkin AMPS 229

Thank you as always Sienne. We'll see what today brings :)

Hope you get to enjoy the day! Doing anything fun? Getting the lawn mowed is my task... yay.
 
Re: 5/28 Munchkin AMPS 229, +2 279, +4 325

Her +4 number has me slightly confused. Higher than previous readings and we started out with our lowest AMPS.

I only managed 1/2 the yard, but at least it's the half other people see. lol We were hot and humid yesterday, followed by golf ball sized hail... Always fun. :)
Hope it moves out quickly for you.
 
Re: 5/28 Munchkin AMPS 229, +2 279, +4 325,

It's possible that Munchkin is bouncing off of the low yellow or that there was some blue in those numbers last night that is causing a bit of a bounce.
 
Re: 5/28 Munchkin AMPS 229, +2 279, +4 325,

I'm reading stickies again, but I don't understand how the bounce works, what happens, what you do, what my options are?
I'll be testing again in 10 mins, @ +5 to see what direction we are actually headed.
 
Re: 5/28 Munchkin AMPS 229, +2 279, +4 325,

Bounces are completely normal. Basically, Munchkin's liver has "forgotten" that the normal BG range is 50 - 120. So, whenever she drops from the yellows and pinks that she's been sitting in to lower ranges, her liver starts dumping a stored form of glucose (i.e., glucagon) along with counterregulatory hormones. These act to raise BG levels. The liver's response is one of survival. It works great if your cat were legitimately experiencing hypoglycemia. Unfortunately, for most of our diabetic cats, their liver is overreacting and responding as if our cats were experiencing an episode of hypoglycemia. It's what amounts to a false alarm.

There's really nothing you can do or really need to do. Bounces are frustrating especially since they can take up to 72 hours to clear. All you have to do is wait it out.
 
Re: 5/28 Munchkin AMPS 229, +2 279, +4 325, +5 270,

Well, down we're going.. So maybe it's just part of her "normal", at least for now.
 
Re: 5/28 Munchkin AMPS 229, +2 279, +4 325,

Sienne and Gabby said:
Bounces are completely normal. Basically, Munchkin's liver has "forgotten" that the normal BG range is 50 - 120. So, whenever she drops from the yellows and pinks that she's been sitting in to lower ranges, her liver starts dumping a stored form of glucose (i.e., glucagon) along with counterregulatory hormones. These act to raise BG levels. The liver's response is one of survival. It works great if your cat were legitimately experiencing hypoglycemia. Unfortunately, for most of our diabetic cats, their liver is overreacting and responding as if our cats were experiencing an episode of hypoglycemia. It's what amounts to a false alarm.

There's really nothing you can do or really need to do. Bounces are frustrating especially since they can take up to 72 hours to clear. All you have to do is wait it out.
Click to expand...

Ok, that makes sense. So ideally she would eventually level out again, once her body "retrains" itself?
 
Re: 5/28 Munchkin AMPS 229, +2 279, +4 325, +5 270,

It may not be a bounce. You may have just gotten a wonky test.

These kitties. They do seem to want to keep us confused!
 
Re: 5/28 Munchkin AMPS 229, +2 279, +4 325, +5 270, +6 284

pppffftttt....she doesn't want to give up the secret to her nadir... I seem to recall she guarded that secret the first time around too.
 
Re: 5/28 Munchkin AMPS 229, +2 279, +4 325, +5 270, +6 284

Good afternoon!!

Glad to see you and Munchkin posting today. I agree with Sienne that it is time to raise her dose. But also....I think you should stay aggressive with her dosecreases since she is returning from the Falls.

I have a little different thought on the bounces with her because she is coming back from remission. If you go six cycles on a dosecrease to let it settle and she bounces and clears within those six cycles but the
nadirs are in blue, I would increase her dose after the six cycles.

I know that might not be clear so let me try to give an example. Let's say on cycle 4 of a dosecrease, she comes down to 150 and in cycle 5 she bounces back up; but cycle 6 she clears and gets back down to 130. I would then increase her dose the next cycle BECAUSE she is coming out of remission and you want to try and get her back. The other thing you can do is ask one of us to look at her SS again when she's on cycle 6 of the new dose. Then we can help you decide whether to take her up.

Have a great day!!!!
 
Re: 5/28 Munchkin AMPS 229, +2 279, +4 325, +5 270, +6 284

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Good afternoon!!

I have a little different thought on the bounces with her because she is coming back from remission. If you go six cycles on a dosecrease to let it settle and she bounces and clears within those six cycles but the
nadirs are in blue, I would increase her dose after the six cycles.

I know that might not be clear so let me try to give an example. Let's say on cycle 4 of a dosecrease, she comes down to 150 and in cycle 5 she bounces back up; but cycle 6 she clears and gets back down to 130. I would then increase her dose the next cycle BECAUSE she is coming out of remission and you want to try and get her back. The other thing you can do is ask one of us to look at her SS again when she's on cycle 6 of the new dose. Then we can help you decide whether to take her up.

Have a great day!!!!
Click to expand...

Hello Marje, Mike & Gracie!

Let me see if I followed this correctly. We dosecrease by .25 at AMPS today, so in cycles 4, 5, & 6 if she's "consistently" going up and down at that point I should be looking at another .25 increase? Instead of going slower with the 7-10 cycles?
 
Re: 5/28 Munchkin AMPS 229, +2 279, +4 325, +5 270, +6 284

Absolutely right. But again....just ask for dose help about cycle six just so we can be sure everything looks ok to increase. But bottom line...if she is not getting into greens when she clears, she needs a Dosecrease.


Take a look at Jill's Alex's SS when she came back from the falls...you need to click on the 2009 levemir tab if it doesn't come up: Alex's SS

Also..look at Nefeli's SS ...she is also returning from remission: Nefeli's SS

If you can monitor, I'd suggest you not hold doses more than six cycles unless low numbers tell you otherwise.
 
Re: 5/28 Munchkin AMPS 229, +2 279, +4 325, +6 284, +8 291

I agree, with a cat that is returning from the Falls, usually the quicker you can get them back into green the better the chance of getting them back OTJ again. I wouldn't wait around too long on a dose that isn't bringing green.

Marje gave you the link to Alex's 2009 spreadsheet. Jill purposely tested more than usual then so she could have the extra data to show people later. It's a great spreadsheet to study.
 
Good evening everyone,

We'll see how the next few cycles go and definitely ask for some advice when we're closer to cycle 6.

I must admit that speeding things up scare the crap out of me. We went quickly the first time and had a rough, ER Vet filled road. I think I can handle it better this time, but won't be sure unless we go through it. I've taken a couple looks at Jill's Alex's SS. I plan to spend more time looking at it tomorrow.

Thanks for the input and resources Sienne, Marje, & Libby. I greatly appreciate it!
 
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