5/28 Alex AMPS 408,PMPS 409

[Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)]

Oh my my my..My Alex is sure giving me a run for the money these days. Maybe it was the fll_moon last night..or not! but again, I was up every 2 hours checking him and yes, feeding him. He's just loving the Lev!

Alex is still wearing his purry pants today. He is being OH SO GOOD too. This morning I told him that every day he gets more handsome and he just looked at me purring and purring. I thought he was going to explode! (Now it could be that he was just hungry but I don't think so). he's got a good appetite but he's not a maniac about it like he was a couple of months ago. If he doesn't like something, he actually walks away...like the "old days". He seems to know his exercise limitations. He hasn't been snarky or growly except less than a handful of times since staring Levemir(unjinx unjinx) :lol: All p's are in order and well, except that he's a little older than he was and not as active..Alex has been acting like "my Alex" again. cat_pet_icon It's confusing me! :lol: (I just realized that I have tears running down my face) ♥

Unfortunately Jackson has a belly ache today. I think eating all of Alex's HC foodies with him(as yummy as they are) has upset his l'il system and he had a bit of pukus this morning and didn't feel like having breffis. I gave him some Pepcid A/C and hopefully that will settle his tummy (and I think he needs to poop, so I gave him a softener as well).

And that has been our morning here. I realize that I'm rambling but forgive me, I'm overtired after 3 days of hc'ing but hopefully it will be worth it! ohmygod_smile

My boyz are taking their AM nap and i think I'll join them

Happy Friday everyone and for those who are going away for the holiday...travel safely and Happy Memorial Day Weekend!

Full Moon yesterday

ETA: the 408 is from me giving HC during last PM cycle

 

[Pat+Raja+Shadow (GA)]

Re: 5/28 Alex revisited AMBB 113

Alex is looking great! I didn't realize you switched...welcome to Levemir!
Did you happen to see Monique's post to me yesterday....you might find it as interesting as I did...
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15589#p156206

Guess I missed the discussion about why you switched...but I'd be interested in knowing...
Hope you can rest up! Naps are soooo good! ZZzzzzzzzzzz :lol:

 

[Kelly & Logan]

Re: 5/28 Alex revisited AMBB 113

Alex has been acting like "my Alex" again. cat_pet_icon It's confusing me! :lol: (I just realized that I have tears running down my face) ♥

I know that feeling, Caryl! I'm like that every time Logan comes and snuggles with me! He used to be my constant companion and once he got sick, he never snuggled. He's starting to snuggle again. I've missed it so much! I just sat there crying the other day b/c he got in my lap and went to sleep. He must have thought I was nuts! :lol: So good to hear Alex is doing well and responding so well to the Lev. Sorry Jackson's not feeling well today - hope it passes soon.

 

[Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)]

Re: 5/28 Alex revisited AMBB 113

Alex is looking great! I didn't realize you switched...welcome to Levemir!
Did you happen to see Monique's post to me yesterday....you might find it as interesting as I did...
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15589#p156206

Guess I missed the discussion about why you switched...but I'd be interested in knowing...
Hope you can rest up! Naps are soooo good! ZZzzzzzzzzzz :lol:

Hey Pat,

There really wasn't a discussion so much. Carolyn asked me if i had a lot of Lantus left and i said yes and we dropped it. Then a month or two later she asked me again and pursued it because she felt that Alex was pretty much over Lantus. That it wasn't doing what it was supposed to do for him and that he seemed to be resisting it. She thought it would be a good idea if I tried Lev. I had a ton of Lantus left so I went about trying to find Levemir on my limited unemployment budget. I got help... and from the first shot/cycle saw a huge difference. We are amazed every day. Now I finally know what it is like when insulin is actually working :mrgreen:

I just read your link. Interesting. THANKS! ...some of my previous posts refer to 'shed action'..Carolyn feels that much of what's been happening to Alex is due to the Levemir shed from a previous dose that was too high. I am dosing him half of what he was getting on Lantus now and it appears that it will go lower.

Did you just switch?

 

[Pat+Raja+Shadow (GA)]

Re: 5/28 Alex revisited AMBB 113

No...we had 6 weeks on Vetsulin back in Aug-mid Sept. Have been on Lev the whole time since then.
Shadow had bad numbers from the beginning while Raja never went as high as he did.

People had suggested recently that maybe I should switch to Lantus...but I decided to stick with Lev.
Shadow is doing so much better now...it was a lot of time lost in the beginning, but now we are
hopefully on track. He seems to be "with" the program at last!! I really like the Levemir!!

I can see a noticeable difference in Alex's SS...and i don't know anything... :lol: and even I can see it. Are you talking about CD's Carolyn?

This is very exciting for you....I am sooooo happy that you gave it a try! How GREAT!!!!!!!! :RAHCAT

 

[Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)]

Re: 5/28 Alex revisited AMBB 113

No...we had 6 weeks on Vetsulin back in Aug-mid Sept. Have been on Lev the whole time since then.
Shadow had bad numbers from the beginning while Raja never went as high as he did.

People had suggested recently that maybe I should switch to Lantus...but I decided to stick with Lev.
Shadow is doing so much better now...it was a lot of time lost in the beginning, but now we are
hopefully on track. He seems to be "with" the program at last!! I really like the Levemir!!

I can see a noticeable difference in Alex's SS...and i don't know anything... :lol: and even I can see it. Are you talking about CD's Carolyn?

This is very exciting for you....I am sooooo happy that you gave it a try! How GREAT!!!!!!!! :RAHCAT

Thanks Pat

No, I'm talking about Spot's Carolyn

 

[Mindy & Max]

Re: 5/28 Alex revisited AMPS 408

Okay, maybe I'm being a bit dense here...I know you test a lot, and have definitely been keeping a close eye on Alex, but what I don't see is a proper curve since he started Lev. And it seems that every time he drops into the greens, he's been fed mc or hc. I know some of them, like the 30s, or those before a +4 in the cycle definitely deserve that, but, and this is a big BUT...you don't know where his true nadir is on Lev yet do you? What if he has a natural early nadir, like at +4, and he's being given mc/hc at that point when he really doesn't need it? I know that Carolyn knows infinitely more about all of this than I do, especially because I don't know Lev, but isn't knowing when he nadirs pretty important in trying to figure out his dose and how to handle the low numbers? I mean, I think if this were me, I'd drop his dose to something low, like 1.5U and let a few cycles ride and see where his numbers go. I know he's prone to ketones, which is probably why you'd rather start high than low on the dose, but I'm also thinking that the two of you need to sleep at some point pretty soon because naps don't make up for a full night's sleep...and sleep deprivation and the misery it brings is something I definitely DO know. ;-)

Clearly Alex is feeling good with the lower numbers. I just can't help but wonder if he could settle into the greens/blues easier if he wasn't being fed into a bounce, KWIM? I know when Max first started going low, I'd freak out at 60, but after I got to watch him a few times in that 40-60 range, I found out he was doing just fine with the lower numbers so long as he was near nadir at the point that he hit it--he pulled himself out of the 50s on his own with no food, and no bounce. Alex isn't being allowed to see if he can do that, right?

Again, I know I know nothing about Lev, but this is the path my brain is following with this. Does it make sense? Or is there some other info that I don't know that would completely derail my logic train? confused_cat

 

[Carolyn and Spot]

Re: 5/28 Alex revisited AMPS 408

Okay, maybe I'm being a bit dense here...I know you test a lot, and have definitely been keeping a close eye on Alex, but what I don't see is a proper curve since he started Lev. And it seems that every time he drops into the greens, he's been fed mc or hc. I know some of them, like the 30s, or those before a +4 in the cycle definitely deserve that, but, and this is a big BUT...you don't know where his true nadir is on Lev yet do you? What if he has a natural early nadir, like at +4, and he's being given mc/hc at that point when he really doesn't need it? I know that Carolyn knows infinitely more about all of this than I do, especially because I don't know Lev, but isn't knowing when he nadirs pretty important in trying to figure out his dose and how to handle the low numbers? I mean, I think if this were me, I'd drop his dose to something low, like 1.5U and let a few cycles ride and see where his numbers go. I know he's prone to ketones, which is probably why you'd rather start high than low on the dose, but I'm also thinking that the two of you need to sleep at some point pretty soon because naps don't make up for a full night's sleep...and sleep deprivation and the misery it brings is something I definitely DO know. ;-)

Clearly Alex is feeling good with the lower numbers. I just can't help but wonder if he could settle into the greens/blues easier if he wasn't being fed into a bounce, KWIM? I know when Max first started going low, I'd freak out at 60, but after I got to watch him a few times in that 40-60 range, I found out he was doing just fine with the lower numbers so long as he was near nadir at the point that he hit it--he pulled himself out of the 50s on his own with no food, and no bounce. Alex isn't being allowed to see if he can do that, right?

Again, I know I know nothing about Lev, but this is the path my brain is following with this. Does it make sense? Or is there some other info that I don't know that would completely derail my logic train? confused_cat

This cat is prone to ketones, and in fact was throwing them 3 days before switching to Levemir. We don't have the luxury of letting anything ride with him unless we want to end up at the ER with a feeding tube and IV fluids. This cat is not a normal cat, and he's got other medical issues which are contributing to this situation, and that is why it is always important to understand a situation before offering advice. Reducing his dose that dramatically could backfire.

One thing I would like emphasize because I see very many people concerned about hypo and low numbers and rebound bouncing here in LL, is that ketones can become fatal. Often. When you have a cat who is prone to them, you MUST be aggressive with your dosing. Caryl is very well capable of controlling Alex's lows, as you can see by her continual testing and her intervention with foods. Everyone here can crack open a can of HC, or even add Karo to food to pull up a low number, if you are diligent enough with testing. What you can not do at home is treat ketones, or the condition they cause: diabetic ketoacidosis. Diabetes management requires a firm grasp of understanding that hypo is not the only evil. The opposite end of the spectrum is even more scary. When you offer advice to someone in how to manage their diabetic cat, you should always bear in mind that diabetes is not as simple as always following the protocol.

During the time that we are finding Alex's dose on Levemir, and it certainly is clear that Lantus was not the insulin for him, there will be upheaval in his numbers. He's always been a bouncy cat, though it is my hope that when we do find his dose range that it will stop. I think Caryl will agree heartily with me that she would far rather be up testing and feeding hc at 4am than shaking off ketone postive urine strips at 4am.

 

[Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)]

Re: 5/28 Alex revisited AMPS 408

Okay, maybe I'm being a bit dense here...I know you test a lot, and have definitely been keeping a close eye on Alex, but what I don't see is a proper curve since he started Lev. And it seems that every time he drops into the greens, he's been fed mc or hc. I know some of them, like the 30s, or those before a +4 in the cycle definitely deserve that, but, and this is a big BUT...you don't know where his true nadir is on Lev yet do you? What if he has a natural early nadir, like at +4, and he's being given mc/hc at that point when he really doesn't need it? I know that Carolyn knows infinitely more about all of this than I do, especially because I don't know Lev, but isn't knowing when he nadirs pretty important in trying to figure out his dose and how to handle the low numbers? I mean, I think if this were me, I'd drop his dose to something low, like 1.5U and let a few cycles ride and see where his numbers go. I know he's prone to ketones, which is probably why you'd rather start high than low on the dose, but I'm also thinking that the two of you need to sleep at some point pretty soon because naps don't make up for a full night's sleep...and sleep deprivation and the misery it brings is something I definitely DO know. ;-)

Clearly Alex is feeling good with the lower numbers. I just can't help but wonder if he could settle into the greens/blues easier if he wasn't being fed into a bounce, KWIM? I know when Max first started going low, I'd freak out at 60, but after I got to watch him a few times in that 40-60 range, I found out he was doing just fine with the lower numbers so long as he was near nadir at the point that he hit it--he pulled himself out of the 50s on his own with no food, and no bounce. Alex isn't being allowed to see if he can do that, right?

Again, I know I know nothing about Lev, but this is the path my brain is following with this. Does it make sense? Or is there some other info that I don't know that would completely derail my logic train? confused_cat

This cat is prone to ketones, and in fact was throwing them 3 days before switching to Levemir. We don't have the luxury of letting anything ride with him unless we want to end up at the ER with a feeding tube and IV fluids. This cat is not a normal cat, and he's got other medical issues which are contributing to this situation, and that is why it is always important to understand a situation before offering advice. Reducing his dose that dramatically could backfire.

One thing I would like emphasize because I see very many people concerned about hypo and low numbers and rebound bouncing here in LL, is that ketones can become fatal. Often. When you have a cat who is prone to them, you MUST be aggressive with your dosing. Caryl is very well capable of controlling Alex's lows, as you can see by her continual testing and her intervention with foods. Everyone here can crack open a can of HC, or even add Karo to food to pull up a low number, if you are diligent enough with testing. What you can not do at home is treat ketones, or the condition they cause: diabetic ketoacidosis. Diabetes management requires a firm grasp of understanding that hypo is not the only evil. The opposite end of the spectrum is even more scary. When you offer advice to someone in how to manage their diabetic cat, you should always bear in mind that diabetes is not as simple as always following the protocol.

During the time that we are finding Alex's dose on Levemir, and it certainly is clear that Lantus was not the insulin for him, there will be upheaval in his numbers. He's always been a bouncy cat, though it is my hope that when we do find his dose range that it will stop. I think Caryl will agree heartily with me that she would far rather be up testing and feeding hc at 4am than shaking off ketone postive urine strips at 4am.

Exactly..sometimes i have to leave it to the person who has more experience than I to explain why I am doing it this way. Carolyn said it all when she said 'Alex is not a normal cat'(in a nice way, of course)...and I would never expect anyone else to do what i am doing !!!!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 5/28 Alex revisited AMPS 408

And it seems that every time he drops into the greens, he's been fed mc or hc. I know some of them, like the 30s, or those before a +4 in the cycle definitely deserve that, but, and this is a big BUT...you don't know where his true nadir is on Lev yet do you? What if he has a natural early nadir, like at +4, and he's being given mc/hc at that point when he really doesn't need it?

In addition to Carolyn's excellent explanation regarding DKA (which almost killed Gabby a year ago), Caryl has been managing Alex for quite some time and has a great deal of data. I think she can figure out where the nadir is. Beginning to feed a drop in order to soften the speed and maybe raise what would ordinarily be the low, allows the kitty to surf and hopefully not bounce. Alex bounces. This is a strategy of using food early in the cycle is one that Jill has used with incredible success with Alex and one which she has coached me to use with Gabby. I am manipulating the curve by the use of food in order to bring down the entire cycle and keep the overall range much tighter.

When you offer advice to someone in how to manage their diabetic cat, you should always bear in mind that diabetes is not as simple as always following the protocol.

Bravo! And I would add that it is important to not give unwitting advice that might cause grave injury to another person's cat.

 

[Mindy & Max]

Re: 5/28 Alex AMPS 408,+2-267

Carolyn--Thank you for the explanation. I can't learn if I don't ask, right?

Sienne--In no way was I giving a dose recommendation for Alex. I was trying to explain how I was processing the information I had, and where I would go, which was different from what was being done. Again, if I don't ask, I can't learn.

Caryl--I hope you have a great weekend (and maybe, just maybe get to get a little sleep!), that Alex continues to be Mr. Purry Pants, and that Jacky feels better soon! :mrgreen:

 

[Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)]

Re: 5/28 Alex AMPS 408,+2-267

Carolyn--Thank you for the explanation. I can't learn if I don't ask, right?

Sienne--In no way was I giving a dose recommendation for Alex. I was trying to explain how I was processing the information I had, and where I would go, which was different from what was being done. Again, if I don't ask, I can't learn.

Caryl--I hope you have a great weekend (and maybe, just maybe get to get a little sleep!), that Alex continues to be Mr. Purry Pants, and that Jacky feels better soon! :mrgreen:

Thanks Mindy...

I hope you and your crew have a terrific weekend as well :mrgreen:

(and no, you can't learn if you don't ask. Alex is probably not the best diabetic cat to learn off of...but probably better just for the 'interest' value! Mr. Purry pants sends you a purr for being interested in his progress) ♥♥♥

 

[Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)]

Re: 5/28 Alex revisited AMBB 113

Alex has been acting like "my Alex" again. cat_pet_icon It's confusing me! :lol: (I just realized that I have tears running down my face) ♥

I know that feeling, Caryl! I'm like that every time Logan comes and snuggles with me! He used to be my constant companion and once he got sick, he never snuggled. He's starting to snuggle again. I've missed it so much! I just sat there crying the other day b/c he got in my lap and went to sleep. He must have thought I was nuts! :lol: So good to hear Alex is doing well and responding so well to the Lev. Sorry Jackson's not feeling well today - hope it passes soon.

Sorry Kelly..I didn't see this.
It's a GREAT feeling..RIGHT ♥

And thanks..I'll ell Jackson you sent your regards, he's still battling with his belly :-|