5/25 Foster Cat - Bean +24~69; +30~88 Dose?

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tuckers mom

tuckers mom

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No shot this morning.

Link to yesterday's condo:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15390

She has had no dry food since mid afternoon yesterday. She's on Fancy Feast wheat gluten free canned only as of last night. She was very hungry this morning, she ate hers, part of Lilly Grace's and part of Tucker's.

I won't be offering dry again, she seems happy with the canned.

Not much PU/PD so far.

I can test Bean at +30 but I don't think I will give her a shot until shot time tonight. Any thoughts on that?
 
Re: 5/25 Foster Cat - Bean +24~69

You sure she needs any shots? That sure is a very nice number for a +24!
And I am a sucker for a good appetite which may explain why Ollie's at 20lb now!

It sure sounds like Bean is doing fantastic!
 
Re: 5/25 Foster Cat - Bean +24~69

Bean is doing really well! The change to canned food is making a big difference, yes? She may not need insulin at all very soon. I can't wait to see what she'll be at +30. And I wouldn't have given her a shot this morning either. It looks like big changes have happened for her already with diet change.
 
Re: 5/25 Foster Cat - Bean +24~69

My goodness! Jennifer, how do you get this kind of luck?? :lol:

I'd skip till tonight too and see how she does. Feed as much as she wants maybe? Or within reasonable limits at least, might keep her surfing rather than bouncing? I dunno, just the thought that popped into my head.

I had a feeling about this girl =)
 
Re: 5/25 Foster Cat - Bean +24~69

It sure looks like Bean has a working pancreas and an appetite. So much for food strikes!

I'd get one or two spot checks and then look at whether she needs insulin at PMPS.
 
Re: 5/25 Foster Cat - Bean +24~69

I feed four times per day with freeze dried chicken treats given as snacks in between.

I can put down more food for her, but Tucker, being on steroids now will probably find it and eat it too :)

Bean is a steroid induced FD and was also on D/M Dry for months. I think she will need some extra monitoring and maybe more dose tweaking, but I believe she will go OTJ, she's also a young kitty so she has that going for her.

I'll post her +30 when I get the number. I'm at work now, so can't get any numbers until I go home for lunch.
 
Re: 5/25 Foster Cat - Bean +24~69

Look's like Bean is doing really well with you Jennifer! I wouldn't have given a shot either. Looks like great anti-jinx things are in store for her! :mrgreen:
 
At +30 she is at 88, my question is tonight, if she's over 100, which I'm assuming she will be, what dose do I give? The same 0.5 Unit?
 
At this point I would think you don't need to give any insulin unless she's over 200. Or if you feel the need to give something, I would only do .25U. She's gone 30 hours without a shot and she's still in the greens--makes me think a diet and environment change was all she needed.
 
Microdosing :) I'll have to find my reading glasses from when Misty(GA) was on microdoses :mrgreen:

I was thinking about 150 as a cutoff, but 200 sounds reasonable.
 
I agree to skip it unless she's over 200 - BUT I'm not an expert. My fear is a hypo situation that lasts for hours. This happened to my Mom's cat Francis. Be careful.
 
Traci, I have to agree with you and Mindy. Considering today is Bean's first full day off dry food and she's started to settle into the house, maybe feeling calmer, perhaps it's best to use 200 as my cut off point at this time.

We can always rethink as we gather more data.
 
Since little Miss has a habit of dropping so low, I'd go with 200 too probably and then I'd probably think hard about .25 or .5 depending on how much over 200 the PS is. But I'd rather be a chicken when dealing with an unfamiliar kitty and I don't really know squat since Tugger moved so quickly so I'd be playing it super safe.

She's definitely keeping you on your toes, no slacking with this girl ;)
 
Jenn,

SIGH. If only they had made this change in Georgia, as I asked them to. But no, the instructors at the vet school knew dry food was better.

I also would stay cautious with her (but that is one of my themes).

Unless she is significantly over 200 at shot time, I would do a food test on her. Test, feed wet, test 1.5 to 2 hours later to see whether her pancreas has brought her down. If still over 200, then (again cautious) .25U.

Venita
 
I would like to know what the basis of not shooting if not over 200 is based on? I don't see any explanation of the rationale behind that suggestion. I would encourage waiting for more input from some of the folks here who have greater experience with dosing decisions.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
I would like to know what the basis of not shooting if not over 200 is based on? I don't see any explanation of the rationale behind that suggestion. I would encourage waiting for more input from some of the folks here who have greater experience with dosing decisions.
Click to expand...
lol! i was wondering the same thing, but thought i'd wait for jennifer's response to my question.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
I would like to know what the basis of not shooting if not over 200 is based on? I don't see any explanation of the rationale behind that suggestion. I would encourage waiting for more input from some of the folks here who have greater experience with dosing decisions.
Click to expand...

Rationale. Sorry I didn't explain because I assumed Jennifer would know my thinking, as well as Marvie's, because we've been working (sometimes hands-on) with Bean since Thursday at midnight.

Bean is changing food, from a constant diet of DM dry to a low-carb variety of Fancy Feast. She also is relatively new to Lantus, but was started on it at a dose of 3U. She is a young, steroid induced diabetic, so her chances of going OTJ if properly managed are fairly good. The past few days, her BG levels have been very erratic, twice being at hypo zone at +12 on 2U and then 1.5 U, as opposed to the 3U she was consistently on in Georgia. (Those low numbers were when she still was on dry food, but not eating much because of the traveling.) Jenn has little history of Bean's reaction to Lantus, and no history under the current dietary conditions. Whether the 88 is at +30 or at +18, there is definitely (IMO) evidence of pancreatic activity.

180-200 is a reasonably accepted shoot/no shoot line for PZI. A lower number is accepted according to the Lantus protocol here---once one is data ready to shoot lower numbers. Jennifer is not data ready because what data she has is now invalid because of today's change to wet food only, and Bean's newly found relish for that food.

And......although I'm socially liberal, I'm insulin conservative. :o
 
Wow, you guys are good. Tucker didn't get a shot last night, my migraine medicine makes me a little loopy. So yes it was +12~69 and +18~88. At least I had it correct on the spreadsheet. Thank you for catching that.

So, now that changes things. We're at 155 right now, +23 and 1 hour after she ate dinner.

I will test at +24 and assuming she's still in this range, give her reduced dose of the .5U?
 
tuckers mom said:
Wow, you guys are good. Tucker didn't get a shot last night, my migraine medicine makes me a little loopy. So yes it was +12~69 and +18~88. At least I had it correct on the spreadsheet. Thank you for catching that.

So, now that changes things. We're at 155 right now, +23 and 1 hour after she ate dinner.

I will test at +24 and assuming she's still in this range, give her reduced dose of the .5U?
Click to expand...

sorry about the migraine.
if bean were my kitty, given the circumstances venita has mentioned i would reduce the dose to 0.25 unit. you may or may not end up increasing, but at least you'll be able to collect some data and get a feel for where bean is at. hopefully, the reduced dose will leave him her shootable on the 12s...
 
Now she is down to 135, it's almost shot time, so she's down from the 155 in a little under an hour.

Today is Bean's first day eating full meals, three so far, all gluten free FF. Her energy is great. No water intake that I've seen today and only one two trips the litter box, no big pee balls like my past FDs.

So, as V explained (thanks V) I'm not data ready on Bean at all and now that she's coming down before getting her shot, stick to 0.25U tonight or wait for a higher BG?
 
wellllllllll, if it were me, i'd shoot anyway because i have confidence in controlling the curve. i'm not sure how you feel since bean's new to your home.
you can always stall or feed and retest in a few hours to see if bean has brought herself down on her own.
 
I normally shoot at 8PM Eastern time, I'll test her at 8:30, about 1/2 hour from now and see where we are.

I have shot Tucker with Lev plenty of times at the very low 100 range, but I was data ready, Bean's been here since Saturday night and has had very low numbers, she was in the 30s the night she arrived after hours in the car. I was expecting a stress number.

I'll see what we come up with in 1/2 hour and post.

Thank you very much for your help, I want to what is best for miss Bean :)
 
I probably would shoot the 0.25 too, then test a bunch to get the data for next time. Are you pretty confident that Bean will eat if you need her to? Or you can stall 1/2 hour or so to be sure the drop stopped. Most likely it's just the little Lantus "double dip" some cats get at the end of the cycle, but with a new cat I would completely understand if you wanted to stall and find out for sure.
 
Libby and Lucy said:
I probably would shoot the 0.25 too, then test a bunch to get the data for next time. Are you pretty confident that Bean will eat if you need her to? Or you can stall 1/2 hour or so to be sure the drop stopped. Most likely it's just the little Lantus "double dip" some cats get at the end of the cycle, but with a new cat I would completely understand if you wanted to stall and find out for sure.
Click to expand...

Bean's MO has been to not eat when she's stressed or upset. Today is the first day that she ate all three times I gave her a plate, so no, I'm not confident she will eat if needed, but I do have lots of supplies if I ever need to syringe feed.
 
She's down to 120, again no shot, so in a little over an hour 155, 135 now 120.

I'm leaning towards no shot. Thoughts?
 
Hi Jennifer-

Again, no expert, but I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting at that number, but that's me. You have to feel confident about your decision! You're doing a fabulous job!
 
I would agree with no shot but Who ITH am I. she definitely has a working pancreas and could continue going down. at this rate if not OTJ the most I would shoot would be .15 or .1 if she does not come down.
good job Jen
 
if you're more comfortable waiting until tomorrow, then that's what you should do. Otherwise, you can test again in another 1/2 hour and see what is going on. She may be shootable then.
 
tuckers mom said:
She's down to 120, again no shot, so in a little over an hour 155, 135 now 120.

I'm leaning towards no shot. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
skip it. see what she does. she could be one of the lucky ones. you never know...
 
She's devouring some canned tuna right now. DH finally gets to have his tunafest with her that he had planned for Saturday night. I'm going to leave her be for now.
Thank you all.

Tomorrow I will post correct numbers :oops:
 
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