5/18 Gus PMPS HI;+1=593/R.25/+2R=HI/+3R=HI

Status
Not open for further replies.
bev5477

bev5477

Member Since 2011
Can anyone tell me why Gus' #so low today? Does bupe cause a drop? He is drinking, ate a relatively substantial breakfast, and is peeing OK. I know I have to get a ketone test ASAP. But I am in shock about this number and I can't bring myself to shoot 9.5U across a teeny, tiny 68! So, I haven't given any Lantus up until now. 30 minutes after breakfast, he was 78. Any help or ideas as to why he's so low, would be appreciated. Because we don't have a definitive dx of acro for Gus, I'm operating on the assumption that he is and to be so low for an acro kitty is not bad. Most beans and kitties would love a 68....that's not Gus' style.
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; no shot;???s

I'm pretty sure this number would completely freak me out, Bev!! A true WTH!! There's no way I would shoot, but I don't know what I'm doing half the time. :lol: I hope someone comes on soon for you.
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; no shot;???s

Freak out is a good term! I actually said,"WTH" to him as I read his test. I did another because I couldn't believe what my eyeballs were seeing....it was 53! I stopped testing and gave him food right away. There was no infection in teeth, just cavities and swollen gums, so it can't be the effect of 'no more infection', you know?
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; no shot;???s

Hi Bev-

I have no solid advice, and am definitely not sure what to tell you about dosing this number, but I can say that Trixie did the same thing the day after her dental, except she held off until the evening. We ended up shooting a reduced dose. I remember Sienne telling me to watch her numbers closesly, because even a day or so after the dental, the anesthesia can still cause the numbers to drop. There's also the possibility of the bupe reducing his pain, and that in turn could cause the numbers to drop.

Bumping you up for expert eyes...

Amy
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; no shot;???s

Hi Bev,

I can't give you an answer about the shot, but being in your position, I wouldn't shoot. There used to be a phrase that was bantered around these boards that I don't see any more which was "shoot low to stay low", but I'm not sure it applies in Gus's case today. If you are getting low BGs and HAVE NOT shot, you don't have to try to feed to bump up the number because he won't hypo unless he's had insulin recently (like 4 hours ago, etc.). When Guinness was OTJ, his every day number was 62 and my civvies average number is 50.

I don't have an answer about the bup/dental. But if he was in any pain from his teeth, that could have been driving his numbers up and then the dental and bup brought them down. Also, I've been told that fluids can bring numbers down, so if he was giving fluids yesterday, that might be it too. Just guesses from me at this point.

Hopefully, someone with more experience will pop on board and put your mind to ease.
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; no shot;???s

Bev, pain can elevate BG. I don't believe that bupe itself lowers BG, but lack of pain can. It is usually suggested that you watch the numbers carefully after a dental. As Amy said, Trixie did the same thing.

I can understand not being used to these numbers, and if you have decided not to shoot, it's fine to feed. I would get another test at what would be +1 and see where he's headed. I don't blame you for skipping, especially with a shed the size of Gus'....and you don't have the data to shoot this low. I would get some tests in today, especially a +11, and post for help on dosing before you shoot tonight.

You have started to see some lower PS numbers, so I would suggest that you take the opportunity to reread and print out the Data Ready sticky and Libby's post on dealing with low preshots.
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; no shot;???s

Here's the link to Gus' condo from yesterday.

I have a couple of thoughts.
Gus' numbers look like they've been moving a bit -- more blues. Add to that, he had a rotting tooth which may have been causing pain or may have been the source of inflammation. Getting rid of the tooth and giving bupe may have alleviated at least the pain. Less pain can result in lower numbers. Finally, anesthesia lowers BG numbers. Roll all of this together and you have a low number this morning. I agree with everyone -- either wait until +13 and see where numbers are going or skip.
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +1=78

Once again, awesome advice from the experts! I feel so much more at ease now. I'm deciding not to shoot and to feed with monitoring throughout the day. Definitely will test at +11, +12, and +13 to see where he's going. And BTW, this is what being Gus' bean feels like: @-) :shock: :roll: ohmygod_smile :-D Seem familiar? Thanks again for the reassurance.
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +1=78

I want to underscore Laurie's point. You're so used to dealing with high numbers, you're back to being a 'newbie' again when it comes to low pre-shot #s. You're in a good position to start collecting data, especially data early in the cycle.
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +1=78

Hi Bev and Gus,
It looks like today will be a good day for gathering data. We are so lucky to have experts like Laurie and Sienne to give us the confidence to follow a plan. Good luck today.

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +1=78

just wow!

btw, you don't have to test for ketones when numbers are low - it's when they're high that ketones appear.

and wow. have a great day, bev! enjoy the moment and see what the next hours bring!
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +1=78; +3=127

OMG!!! I am totally out of my comfort zone. I've been living in a different neighborhood for a long time. Collecting data like I did when Gus was new on R. I'm going back to read some posts that were interesting, but never applied to us. Inside, I am doing the Lantus Dance of Joy (if only for a little bit.) I called Gus' vet after I first posted this AM. I wanted to see just where he would go with this. He said he didn't have a clue as to why the AMBG was so low. "maybe somogyi (sp?) effect" Duh, wrong way, doc. Other than that....nothing. Then, I go back to the "People Who Know What's Going On" forum to get my answers. Not wanting to bash vets but rather to put a hugely positive spin on the expertise available on this site. Enough spreadin' the love, I have some reading to catch up on. :-D
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +1=78; +3=127

:mrgreen:

good to hear you sounding happier, too bev. it's stressful having a sick (ie uncontrolled high numbers) kitter, isn't it.

we're all watching to see what gus does now. :shock: us watching you watching gus. :cool: :lol:
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +3=127;+6=466

Don't freak. The bounce isn't a surprise. Gus' liver just got jump started. He's not used to being in the greens, either. His liver panicked and kicked out a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones to "save" Gus from being in those low numbers.

So, the lesson for today: Stall and test at +2. You probably would have caught the rise and could have shot.
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +3=127;+6=466

Wow, I'm sure glad I didn't unpack my suitcase!! Gus is good entertainment, no? My thinking is that, while I'd love to hit him with R.25, there are too many unknown post-op variables to take a chance. Am I right? Take nothing but data until PMPS and post for dosing help. I'll feel safer with him after 48 hrs. If I don't stroke out by then! :shock: :lol:
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +3=127;+6=466

Lesson learned! I should have seen it coming. He's still the same cat I dealt with prior to the deed. Can I give him R to at least keep him on the meter or are there too many post-op unknowns. I'm planning on getting a +7 and that is in .5hr. Thanks
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +3=127;+6=466/ ?R?

After dental, you can expect to see drastic differences.
After Shadoe's dental when she had one tooth extracted, her dose dropped from 14u BID down to 2.75u BID very quickly.
The anesthetic also caused a cycle of green, some skipped shots, a bounce, and a very bumpy couple of days.
I would say that until you have acro confirmed or ruled out, it would be safe to feed any green BG.
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +3=127;+6=466/ ?R?

i think we've seen several cats with major wonky numbers in the first 2-3 days following dentals. hang in there bev!
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +3=127;+6=466/ ?R?

what a fantastic interesting morning. Very informative. And awesome date too. FWIW, I agree with Sienne and Laurie and Gayle especially on what she wrote about the day(s) after, recover,. and opinions given on the low ambg this morning. Mannie went through something similar on his last dental. anyways- good luck today, and monitor as much as you can. Hang in there things may be a bit crazy for a day or two.

Can't advise on the R - no clue there. Good luck today - and welcome to the land of the greens - nice while it was there. nerve wracking I am sure, but nice.

have a great day today - I am so glad Gus is doing OK after all that he went through yesterday.
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +3=127;+6=466/ NO R

At first, I thought: no nadir, HI, go ahead and give him R. Then I thought some more and realized that Gus is due for his bupe at +8 (in .5hr) and that could result in a sizeable drop of #s because the pain will be gone, again. That drop, combined with the effects of R, wouldn't be good. I'm going to pay attention as to how much the pain meds affect his #s. And probably go a little conservative and just tolerate the wonkiness for a while. I won't know where we are until he's back to normal again.
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +9=HI

So much for that thinking. "The more things change, the more they stay the same." The boy is what he is. I will post his PMPS and ask for dosing help with Lantus and R. He's fast asleep now and it's important that he rests and heals.
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +9=HI

Bev, i just saw your post in my condo and i have to say it's because of your condo today that i asked the question.. so thank you..I think i'm going cross eyed.. @-) @-) keeping up every day with Gus's condo has yielded very useful good information for me as well.. I'm scared to death to get a dental for Tommy (1) because he's 15 and (2) well i'm just scared of the whole anesthesia part and them monitoring him properly and keeping his bg where it needs to be etc...I know it's what they do, but i'm the mom and i worry and i know i shouldn't!!

I'm so glad Gus is resting now, that's a good thing I-) I-)
And just so you know~~~ i pray that both of your tests come back Big time NEGATIVE :-D
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +9=HI

Props to you for handling this so well! It seems like you've had quite a roller coaster today, thinking good healing thoughts for you guys!
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +9=HI

Good job handling this today, guys! I am learning a lot just reading your condos... thank you for that. I hope you have a good rest of the day!
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +9=HI

I just finished up with all my deadlines at work and have some free time so I thought I'd see what's happening with some kitties. ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile Gus is a pistol!!! God forbid he should follows any norms!! What a flippin morning you've had. I'm going to keep an eye on Gus' condos for the next few days (like I always do :-D ) to see how this tooth extraction, etc., plays out with his BGs. You never know...I might have a similar situation one day. You're doing such a spectacular job, Bev. Give yourself a big pat on the back!!
 
Re: 5/18 Gus AMBG 68; +9=HI

Bev, that post helps more than you will ever know.. I have to believe and have faith that he will be just fine and they will take care of him. Thank you for the nudge.. I really feel i needed one even though i know it's what's best for Tommy. I've been holding off because of MY fears and the lack of money right now, but it's time and you're right all it can do is help Tommy! and that's what matters the most..
I have to ask you one question that I've asked a few people already, did Gus get pre dental x-rays?
It's appearing as though i don't have many options out where i live and might have to get the dental done with out them.. I know a lot of kitties get dentals w/o the x-rays and are just fine.. I'm just curious if you were able to have them done?
 
Re: 5/18 Gus PMPS HI/ Dose help please

Should I give 9.5U of Lantus? This was the dose Gus was on pre-extraction. Squirrel, no Gus did not have dental x-rays, although I know that many beans here do have them done.
 
Re: 5/18 Gus PMPS HI/ Dose help please

Bev, your SS shows Gus was at 9.0u pre-extractions, you shot 4.5u yesterday AM, then 9.5u yesterday PM. Is that correct?
 
Re: 5/18 Gus PMPS HI/ Dose help please

it's kind of a gut check when you have a dose increase and pain meds and a dental. How would you feel about going back to 9 units, if that was his pre-dental dose? You can cover the high numbers with R, but give the 9 units a few days to see what happens (unless he goes low again, then you can reduce). I would feel better about 9u and R than 9.5u. With a bit less Lantus, if his dosing needs do start to drop it will be easier to control. 9+ units makes a big shed that can take a while to empty when you need to.
 
Re: 5/18 Gus PMPS HI/ Dose help please

Thanks Bev for letting me know about the x-rays.. Good luck with the dose tonight.. I'm so glad Libby stopped in! :-D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top