5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, PM-67 and update

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Traci and Boomer

Traci and Boomer

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First off, I didn't give him any insulin this AM. Last night he went down to 57 @ +3 from 122 at PM. Then at +5 he was 58 after eating MCW and HCW. I was too scared to shoot anything this morning. What do you guys think? He wasn't eating as well in the morning - seemed off, so I thought it was too risky. He ate a lot last night and I don't think he'd pooped enough out yet. I gave him his Reglan in a pill pocket so I know once that kicks in he'll poop and then eat.

I got a call from the IM vet- she says he has Lymphoplasmacitic IBD, no signs of cancer in the samples she got. She's going to call me back to discuss what to do from here. Also his B-12 level is fine, so supplementing once a month is working fine.

So all in all, pretty good news. I'm a little concerned that he didn't feel well this morning. I still need to figure out what he's allergic to, but not until he's gained another pound. I left him some Wellness Core dry because it's only 9 carbs. Whatever I can do to get him to eat. Like I said, I think he will eat once everything has moved out of his stomach and intestines and I think Reglan has been doing a decent job so far.

Looking forward to your opinion on how I handled his insulin situation. What say you?
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, test results

Traci,

That is good news. I know that trying to feed both IBD and Diabetes appropriately can be difficult, but there are a lot of choices out there. The good news is you just need to find the right balance and he will be fine.

Jason
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, test results

Wonderful news on the test results! flip_cat flip_cat flip_cat flip_cat

:dizcat Now you just need to find out what he can eat and will eat. Who said life got easier at the Falls? :roll:
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, test results

What about my not giving him insulin? Any thoughts on that? What if he's really high tonight? I have no clue what the heck I should do. I wonder what the vet will say- not that I'd necessarliy listen to her anyway. :lol:
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, test results

Great news about the lab results. You might want to post on Health for more info.

I'd wait until tonight to decide about the insulin. You KNOW any time you would ask about the PM shot we'd tell you to wait until it's +11 because a lot can happen in a few hours.
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, test results

Oh I'm so happy to hear that there's no cancer! Now it's just a matter of figuring out the food stuff and he'll be back on track. {{{Traci}}}
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, test results

Just spoke to the vet again and she's putting him on lukeran because she doesn't think the budesonide is working any more. He'll be on the lukeran every other day and weaned off bude. This is what we did when we switched from pred to bude. Apparently lukeran is a human drug, so she's calling it into a pharmacy for me. I assume WalMart is probably the cheapest, but i need to look into it.

I'll post this on Health too, but in case anyone here has any experience with this...she said the type of cells he has indicates that this probably isn't a food allergy. When there is a food allergy, a different type of cell usually shows up. My goal is to still try to get him on raw eventually even if it takes a year. She said he has to go in for a CBC in ten days to see how the lukeran is working and that will cost $62 - sounds too good to be true, but I'll take it.

I talked to her about the insulin and she said not to shoot unless he's over 200. :roll: Oh well. I thought that's what vets who didn't know anything about diabetes say!
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, another chat with the vet

Kelly had had Logan on leukeran as has Linda had Teddy (not Bear, I don't think) on the med. You might want to send them a PM.
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, another chat with the vet

I'm very happy for you that there was no sign of cancer. IBD can be a difficult disease as well, but you are starting treatment early and being pro-active, which is good. Bear (who also has lymphocytic, plasmacytic IBD) tried Leukeran, but it didn't work for him. He was very sick at the time, and he couldn't get past the inappetance and nausea. Leukeran is a chemotherapy drug, but it is frequently used to treat IBD, because of the similarity between IBD and lymphoma. My civie, Teddy, who has IBD and lymphoma, has taken Leukeran with great success for over five years. It definitely causes some nausea and inappetance. He now takes Ondansetron to help him with that. In my experience, the Leukeran side effects are worse at the beginning, and tend to improve over time if you persist with the drug. Because it is a chemo drug, it will cause some weakening of the immune system. You may want to use caution with the raw food, perhaps try lightly cooking. It's just something to keep in mind, and discuss with your vet. I wish I had taken more steps at the beginning of Bear's disease to try to improve his diet. I think you are probably on the right track with what you want to do. Leukeran can also suppress the bone marrow, which ios why you have to periodically recheck the CBC the entire time he is on the drug. Teddy is mildly anemic, but has tolerated the Leukeran well for the most part. Good luck with the Leukeran. Just be ready to see a bit of tummy upset with it at the start. Also ... in case no one mentions it to you ... don't handle Leukeran with bare hands. It is a chemo drug and should be handled with gloves.
Edited to add: Teddy has also been on steroids for over five years, and is not (yet) diabetic. Bear became diabetic after many years of taking steroids.
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, another chat with the vet

Linda-

I'm upset. It sounds awful to be honest. My GOD. I'm scared. Maybe I should keep him on the bude to see if he improves again. I could cry. This sucks.
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, another chat with the vet

Don't be scared!! Teddy is alive today because of Leukeran, and he is a happy healthy kitty. I'm just warning you not to throw in the towel if he feels a little sick the first week or so. It will improve with time. Even if it doesn't work, there is no harm done, and it is 100% worth trying. It's a strong drug, but for Teddy, it has been a miracle drug. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to scare you off. I am Leukeran's biggest fan.
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, another chat with the vet

Traci,

Belle will be starting on Leukeran in the next few weeks. I know it's scary, especially if you call it "chemotherapy", but it's really just a stronger anti-inflammatory/immunosuppressant. When pred isn't doing the job, we need to take the next step and try to make our guys feel better. If Budesonide isn't helping, hopefully this will.

Jason



Traci and Boomer said:
Linda-

I'm upset. It sounds awful to be honest. My GOD. I'm scared. Maybe I should keep him on the bude to see if he improves again. I could cry. This sucks.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, another chat with the vet

Traci, it is so wonderful that there is no cancer to be found for Boomer! That is the happiest news I've heard all day! Now that you know what his dx is, you can go full force and find what will work to help him feel better.

I think I would also be hesitant to try the Leukeran, but as Linda said, it was a life saver for Teddy. Just a little rough patch in the beginning...and you are a trooper and I know you can handle that. I know you will be extra extra loving and attentive to Boomer and it won't be as hard as you think on him. Jason actually said it best "When pred isn't doing the job, we need to take the next step and try to make our guys feel better."

Now, time to stop fretting and time to be happy!!!
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, another chat with the vet

So glad to hear it's not cancer, Traci. Logan is handling the Leukeran very well. I was terrified to give it to him, but it's helping. He's about 85% normal now. It's taken months to get us here and the pred was not working, even at the higher doses. And it was wreaking havoc with his BGs. We're still weaning him off the pred. We're going down to 2.5 mg once a day tomorrow. I get my Leukeran from a compounding pharmacy out in Arizona. Because the regular pill contains lactose, we had to find a pharmacy that could make it w/o the lactose. I think the lactose just keeps it in the pill/tablet format. We get gelcaps. I don't use gloves since it is in a gelcap - I just make sure I wash my hands immediately and very thoroughly. Logan has a very sensitive smell so latex gloves would freak him out. If you don't think you can get the pill in the first or second time, you will probably wan't to wear the gloves. 15 pills cost me $104 with shipping.

Did the pred not help Boomer? Our vet didn't even let us try the budesonide, but she felt Logan had inflammation in other areas besides the small intestines. It did take a couple of weeks for Logan to start eating better on his own - we kept him on the mirtazapine. I do think it's working now and he doesn't appear to be nauseous anymore. He takes 2mg EOD - he's a big kitty, though. Boomer will probably be on 1 mg EOD. I believe Quincy (Laura and Quincy) takes 1 mg 3 days a week - M, W, F. If the pred and bude aren't working then Leukeran is the next choice. I don't think any diet change will be successful until he's feeling better. I am getting Logan to eat the EVO 95% chicken/turkey (sometimes duck ) and Nature's Variety Instinct Rabbit. The EVO is 0% carbs (super high in fat) and the Instinct is around 8% I think. The Instinct is a bit pricey - I pay $2.19 a can. We rotate flavors and that really helps. Logan wouldn't touch either food when he wasn't feeling well. So, for now, just let Boomer eat what he'll eat and once the drug is in his system and he's feeling better, you can try a diet change to something more long term.

I'm ordering the supplements this week to make Logan's food. Dr Lisa told us that once we have 30 good days in a row on the raw/slightly cooked diet, she would start cutting down the Leukeran dose to see if the diet alone can control his symptoms.

Best of luck with the Leukeran! It's scary as hell, I know, but try not to think about it being a chemo drug and just focus on the good that it can do. Most cats tolerate it very well.
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, another chat with the vet

Isn't it wonderful to get such great input? It sounds like something you can handle Traci...just ask your vet questions and everyone here will be right here with you. Thankfully, there is NO cancer and THAT is joyous news! Seriously though....the one thing you are learning how to deal with...but the all clear report on everything else is wonderful....
Thinking of you and Boomer and sending lots of hugs!!
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, another chat with the vet

Truth be told, I had a mini breakdown earlier and started re-thinking this. Right now Boomer is on budesonide and reglan and he's been doing fine since he got home. Why can't I keep him on this mix and see if he continues to do well. He's eating and beginning to gain weight; I'd hate to mess with that now. If all IBD drugs do is control the symptoms and he he has no symptoms now, then why can't I wait to try leukaran? It's not hurting him to take the reglan.

Kelly-what supplements are you buying? I know you can't use Instinct. Boomer will *sometimes* eat semi-cooked food, just not reliably. He has a mixture of foods, he's never eaten one thing every day. What meat are you going to use? I got my Instincts samples and cooked chicken for him a couple nights ago. It wasn't a huge hit, kind of ho-hum. Have you given him any of your own food yet? Did he eat it? I wondered how the food trial was done! Do you have to feed him ONLY the semi-cooked food for a month and THEN try reducing the meds? I guess that's what I could do someday too. Thank you for sharing that.

I've got so many thoughts in my head about this and I don't know what to do. At least he didn't need insulin today.
 
Traci,

You don't have to give him anything you're not comfortable with. If the budesonide is controlling his IBD and he doesn't have any inflammation anywhere else, stick with it. I assume he'd still be on the reglan even with the Leukeran, so you wouldn't stop that in any case.

I'm sure there are benefits to Leukeran over the budesonide, but if you're going to feel this way about it, it's not good for either of you right now. I was hesitant as well, which is why I bought Leukeran 6 months ago and never used it. Now that I've found out that Belle's chronic inflammation can't be controlled by steroids, I don't really see another option. You said the Budesonide no longer helped him, but if that's not the case, stay the course.

Jason
 
Re: 5/11, Boomer AMPS-112, another chat with the vet

Traci and Boomer said:
Truth be told, I had a mini breakdown earlier and started re-thinking this. Right now Boomer is on budesonide and reglan and he's been doing fine since he got home. Why can't I keep him on this mix and see if he continues to do well. He's eating and beginning to gain weight; I'd hate to mess with that now. If all IBD drugs do is control the symptoms and he he has no symptoms now, then why can't I wait to try leukaran? It's not hurting him to take the reglan.

Kelly-what supplements are you buying? I know you can't use Instinct. Boomer will *sometimes* eat semi-cooked food, just not reliably. He has a mixture of foods, he's never eaten one thing every day. What meat are you going to use? I got my Instincts samples and cooked chicken for him a couple nights ago. It wasn't a huge hit, kind of ho-hum. Have you given him any of your own food yet? Did he eat it? I wondered how the food trial was done! Do you have to feed him ONLY the semi-cooked food for a month and THEN try reducing the meds? I guess that's what I could do someday too. Thank you for sharing that.

I've got so many thoughts in my head about this and I don't know what to do. At least he didn't need insulin today.
Click to expand...

I have to buy the B complex, vitamin e, salmon oil, etc - from Dr Lisa's recipe. She suggested we use chicken thighs and also try the rabbit since he likes the Instinct Rabbit. The rabbit comes ground so I wouldn't need a grinder. She did say we should try the thighs w/o the bones plus the supplements to see if he'll eat it before investing in a grinder. If we take out the bones, we can use a food processor to mix in the supplements and water and make more of a pate style. With Logan, he wouldn't eat anything consistently - except FF and he ended up feeling pretty rotten on that. I don't think it helped his IBD. In the end, the steroids just weren't enough to control the inflammation long term. It seemed to help for small periods of time but the inflammation always came back. Logan has had a good run - about 3 weeks now. I do think it's the Leukeran.

Now that he's feeling better, we're going to focus on his diet. If you're not comfortable giving him the Leukeran, then don't. You can wait and see if the Bude and Reglan help. I'm not sure if there are any long term effects to be concerned about with the Reglan. You may want to check that out. The first couple of times I gave the Leukeran to Logan I felt awful. I felt like I was poisoning him. But, I do see the improvements since starting it and I no longer focus on the negatives. Yes, it can have serious side effects, but we had to do something to help him feel better. His QOL wasn't very good and didn't seem to be improving. Seeing him these last couple of weeks has made me feel so much better about giving him the drug. He's been more alert, active and playful. Just tonight, he took a swipe at me when I walked by him! It's been a while since he's done something like that...so good to see him feeling better! :mrgreen:

Just weigh your options. There really isn't a wrong decision. If you want to try the current protocol your on for a few weeks, then do so. If it doesn't work, you can start the Leukeran. That's perfectly reasonable, Traci. Hang in there, you're doing a great job! Boomer is lucky to have such a caring mom!
 
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