5-11-17 - Jones AMPS 112 - Looking for advice on how to get more calories into Jones.

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Tracey&Jones (GA)

Tracey&Jones (GA)

Member Since 2016
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It has been a few days sense I posted but I think I need some FDMB input. Jones is holding his own in regards to the FD - he needs somewhere between a drop and a drop and a half. Still working that fine dosing. As far as the IBD he seems stable - no vomiting or diarrhea and we haven't seen those things for long awhile. Now that his favourite tree has been relocated to my office at work - he can't chew on the fiscus and upset his tummy. The issue really is that he still is not eating enough to gain weight. I loath using the appetite stimulants but without them he would just happily fade away and would not maintain the weight he does have. Right now I am giving a 12 stimulant every 36 hours to keep the volume up. The other issue is that he just wants to stick to the FF which is fine but has lower calories per volume - so it takes more to put the calories in. At optimum weight he should be about 220 calories a day - I am lucky if I can 180 in. He is allergic to Tuna and dairy - which limits some of the toppers I can use. He will not go back to the baby food, the free dried treats that I used when he first got sick.

I am little in the weeds on this one. I have some thoughts.

  1. I am beginning to question if he does have lymphoma and maybe I really should just get the endoscopy and biopsy done regardless of what DH thinks. I asked our replacement vet - she right out admitted she didn't really have time or expertise to pick up his complex case so referred me to an IM. Our consultation appointment is on the 17th. His original vet said I could take him off some of the medications he is on but I am a chicken sh*t and haven't done any. Maybe the IM has some suggestions on that front as well.
  2. He also seems to know when I add the probiotic to the food -seems to eat a few bites and leaves. Is that possible?
  3. He is willing to eat the FF but maybe there is something out there that will entice him more with more calories per volume. The homemade diet - was going ok but now he is off of it. Was going to try and make a different flavour - I started with wild boar- maybe some buffalo. S0 doing some research into some higher calorie, lower carb, high protein canned food.
  4. He is very interested in CKD Kitties dry food (which I can not get her off of regardless of how much BFF wet I give her), which is fine - she eats which is the most important part. I put extra water into her wet and she loves her new water fountain (so does Jones ). So I was thinking of supplementing a dry. Maybe he doesn't like the wet after it gets to a certain temp, smell etc. What would be a good dry? EVO?

Any suggestions or other ideas would be great.
 
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Tracey&Jones said:
What would be a good dry? EVO?
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YA is lower in carbs and i believe it is quite calorie dense. Personally I don't like dry, perhaps there are better high calorie wet options. Some others may help you with that (I'm in Europe so completely different food choices)
I have no personal experience with lymphoma.
Perhaps reflect your query in the title, might get the relevant eyes on it.
 
Gill & George said:
YA is lower in carbs and i believe it is quite calorie dense. Personally I don't like dry
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I don't like dry either, but he has always had access to nibble dry with 2 wet meals a day before all his issues started. I can't get YA here and I am not close to the border to do a run. I have a sister in Houston but we don't see each other often as she travels out of country a lot. Just looking at options...
 
I'm running out the door but will post some info later today. In the meantime FF is one of the more calorie dense wet foods out there. Average wet has 30 calories per oz at the higher end.
 
Phoebe lost 7 pounds in 2 years.. and was still going down before we started the insulin. She has been on insulin about 3 months or 4 months. I only fed her the ff chicken after feeding her dry for years. Now I feed ff other choices classics and last vet appt she has gained almost a pound back!! :) I feed her about every 2 1/2 hours. 1/2 can. I stay away from the chicken because she doesn't like it, when she got sick she was eating that. so no more of that.
 
Phoebes said:
Phoebe lost 7 pounds in 2 years.. and was still going down before we started the insulin. She has been on insulin about 3 months or 4 months. I only fed her the ff chicken after feeding her dry for years. Now I feed ff other choices classics and last vet appt she has gained almost a pound back!! :) I feed her about every 2 1/2 hours. 1/2 can. I stay away from the chicken because she doesn't like it, when she got sick she was eating that. so no more of that.
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Jones lost about 1.5kgs so about 3 lbs. He gained about 500g - 1 pound back. I need another one of those jumps to get him closer to his optimum weight. He will eat the FF (except the plain chicken one), I keep away from the shrimp and seafood. Maybe I should just try them. I am not home all day. On the weekend I have more success because I put some out. Then put some out again a little while later so it is fresh. Can't do that while I am gone all day. And with 4 cats...I can't just leave it out - his sister has an eating disorder and will eat all food put out.
 
Tracey&Jones said:
I keep away from the shrimp and seafood.
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I think its better for male cats to stay away from fish anyway. I might be wrong. But yes do try the other flavors. They have feeders that are engineered to specific cat. Like will only open for right cat at the right time. I don't know how high they are as far as price goes. Good luck to you and your Jones!
 
Hello Tracey,

what is the Jones's current weight?
4/29/2017 - 4.535 - per your weight diary. Is he still there?

Tracey&Jones said:
he just wants to stick to the FF which is fine but has lower calories per volume - so it takes more to put the calories in.
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Can you tell me which FF he prefers? I have 2017 fod chart and I can check the caloric value.
I looked at the allergy report and if I am not mistaken Jones can take salmon well and chicken and sunflower seed oil ok.
If that's the case I'd ask you to look at the Tiki Cat Napili Luau. Per Dr. Lisa 2017 food chart it has 107 Kcal per 2.8oz can; the can's label reads 71 Kcal. I feed it to my kitty and I think that Dr. Lisa estimate is more accurate. Reason: almost 4 weeks on that food and Ducia maintains her weight (check the SS). Prior to this she had to eat 1 1/2 can 5.5 oz Friskie Classic Pate.
Tracey&Jones said:
His original vet said I could take him off some of the medications he is on but I am a chicken sh*t and haven't done any. Maybe the IM has some suggestions on that front as well.
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Do discuss the in great details ( if possible) with the IM which medications are still needed. IMHO, every medication has side effects. The longer any given medication is used the lesser chance is left for the organism to restore its own strength. Bodies quickly learn to rely on external meds and get lazy.

I HOPE SOMEONE MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE READS AND CORRECTS ME RIGHT AWAY IF I AM WRONG HERE. It is only my humble opinion; that's what I practice myself.

Was it helpful? I can make a picture of the Tiki label so you can double the ingredients list before buying it (it is pricey).

Best of luck with your vet's visit.
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
4/29/2017 - 4.535 - per your weight diary. Is he still there?
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I will be weighing him Saturday. I try to do it every 2 weeks. But he looks smaller? His spine is still very easily felt. His hips stick out. It is more of an overall thing. With the IBD and FD - it seems like I need more in to get more used by the body? Don't know if that makes sense or not.

Tanya and Ducia said:
Tiki Cat Napili Luau
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I will check that out...he likes salmon and is ok with chicken - at least will eat a piece off my plate:rolleyes:

Tanya and Ducia said:
Can you tell me which FF he prefers?
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He likes the Turkey and Giblets, Salmon, Tender Liver and Chicken is what he likes the most. I try to rotate it around. I believe on average is like 90 calories per can. He used to eat the Wellness Complete Turkey and that allowed me to get extra calories in but he stopped eating it. As soon as I put it in his bowl even if beside the FF - he will not eat.

Tanya and Ducia said:
The longer any given medication is used the lesser chance is left for the organism to restore its own strength
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I know the theory - lowest affective dose....just scared to try and see him get worse. Like I said chicken poop.
 
I'm seriously not an expert but Babu who is very difficult regarding food started eating Hills a/d after an infection and it really helped him and he loved the flavor is higher in carbs than FF but maybe it can help if he eats it for a period of time
 
Phoebes said:
Does it not work? Or do you need 4 of them?? Zikes
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Each cat has 1. It works great for keeping them out of each others - just prevents me from having one of those spin feeders to keep things fresh as it is open to everyone. It doesn't have a place for a freezer pac to keep things cool.
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
I'm seriously not an expert but Babu who is very difficult regarding food started eating Hills a/d after an infection and it really helped him and he loved the flavor is higher in carbs than FF but maybe it can help if he eats it for a period of time
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Yeah, Jones started on that when he was first sick. He ate it and was holding his own but then the FD diagnoses came - I still fed it. Then one day it was nose up and I am not eating that anymore. Had a half a case of food which I returned to the vet. I can try that again though. Pick up a can or two and see how that goes.
 
Rusty has to keep from losing weight, too. At one point he weighed 17 lbs. he has lost weight as he has gotten older (he is about 18 years old and now weighs 11 lbs). (he is not sick and has good labs). I find that Wellness Chicken and Wellness Turkey are both high in calories and Rusty likes them pretty well (he isn't food motivated). You might ask your vet for MaxCal, which is a prescription food. I've never fed it, but it is often mentioned on the Board (you can do a search).

Good luck!
 
Tracey&Jones said:
Yeah, Jones started on that when he was first sick. He ate it and was holding his own but then the FD diagnoses came - I still fed it. Then one day it was nose up and I am not eating that anymore. Had a half a case of food which I returned to the vet. I can try that again though. Pick up a can or two and see how that goes.
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It is MC (12%) but it didn't affected Babu's numbers (actually I think it even helped me control him a little bit better since he was a diver ) and the important thing is he liked it so no extra needed for him to eat it (it smells good, the cives go crazy for it )
 
Tracey&Jones said:
Each cat has 1. It works great for keeping them out of each others - just prevents me from having one of those spin feeders to keep things fresh as it is open to everyone. It doesn't have a place for a freezer pac to keep things cool.
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I freeze catfood popsicles. Mix can if food with about 4 to 5 tsp of water mix up put in ice cube trays. Lay them in the feeder and even can put an ice cube on them. We be good for 12 Hours. Pop them out keep in ziplock bag in freezer pull out what you need.
 
FYI - Neither Evo nor Young Again dry are available in Canada. I think there are some dry options available with MC carbs, but I'd try wet food options first. Some of the Wild Calling are higher carb and they have some unique proteins too. But I don't know how their ingredients match what Jones can eat. They are available in most of the small chain/independent pet food stores here.

I have heard that Iams is stopping producing Maxcal too. :banghead: It was really hard to get here but another member found some at her vet, I just have a couple cans in reserve that I may be using soon.

The IM should be a great resource in discussing meds and supplements and what to add or drop. Good luck with the visit.
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
It is MC (12%) but it didn't affected Babu's numbers
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If Jones continues on the pred for the rest of his he will be on insulin even if a drop for the rest of life. I have come to terms with that. We may need to adjust both over time so if I need to watch on the MC days, I will. Just want him to eat, if he doesn't eat and maintain weight.....making myself cry here.
 
Oops, meant to say Wild Calling are higher calorie, but still low carb. :oops:

Eating vines for Jones. :bighug::bighug: If you need to adjust his insulin around what he'll eat, so be it. He is otherwise in really healthy numbers. Better than most diabetic cats out there. You are doing a great job with that.
 
Phoebes said:
freeze catfood popsicles. Mix can if food with about 4 to 5 tsp of water mix up put in ice cube trays. Lay them in the feeder and even can put an ice cube on them. We be good for 12 Hours. Pop them out keep in ziplock bag in freezer pull out what you need
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I am so trying this. See if he will take 1/2 can fresh and then pop the popsicle in before I leave...see what happens.
 
Tracey&Jones said:
I will. Just want him to eat, if he doesn't eat and maintain weight.....making myself cry here.
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Tracy, sorry Jonesy is having a rough patch with eating. I do agree to try real hard to just keep him on wet food. This being said, I tried for 2 years to get Doodles off dry all together. We succeeded just for a short period of time and then he stopped eating all together. I found that if I gave him a controlled portion of dry he ate the wet food much better so that's what we did. Every bean is different but I wasn't willing to let him starve and wither away. He'd only eat a small amount of wet at each feeding and I'd supplement with this dry which is 12% carbs and the lowest of all the Natures Variety formulas. http://www.instinctpetfood.com/instinct-originals-kibble-for-cats I believe it is available in Canada. If you go this route, I wonder if you grind it and just use it as a topper when needed. One thing I believe in firmly is that it's not food if they don't eat it. Sending eating vines and prayers.
 
We do have that here. I agree....if they don't eat whatever else you are trying to accomplish doesn't matter.

Will keep that idea my back pocket. Need to put my list of questions together for IM.
 
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