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- Thread starter eeraby
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pamela and tigger
Member Since 2009
Re: Bud 4/25 AMPS 157 f1.0; +1 175 PMPS 48
You said in your SS that he didn't eat today. Obviously that is why the low PM number. Why do you suppose he didn't eat today? Since he didn't eat it is hard to know if that AM fat 1 unit was too much or not.
I see your vet said to wait until he is 150 and then shoot .5 units. I can understand why she would say this and wants to be cautious. Although I hope it doesn't throw you too far off schedule.
You also might want to review these general guidelines from Libby's "Dealing with low Preshots" post (this is the second half of that post):
click here for full post
Some general rules when stalling (ECID):
** 50s or higher – don’t feed. The number will bump up on its own soon due to the insulin wearing off.
** 40s or lower – you have a couple of choices.
* When 40’s occur at the end of the cycle, it can be beneficial to withhold food and test in 15-20 minutes to determine if kitty is on the rise or hasn’t reached nadir yet.
* If they are hanging in the 40s for a while, or if they are still dropping, it is ok to feed a tsp or two of LC and retest. This is very tricky. You want to avoid feeding too much while you’re waiting for them to go over 50, because you don’t want to artificially inflate the number with food.
* --- Example: if kitty is 43 and you feed a whole meal, or feed some HC, and the number bumps up to 52, is that the cat’s natural end-of-cycle rise, or is it food spike? What if it is food spike? Then if you shoot the 52, when the food wears off he might drop back to the 40’s (and when insulin kicks in a couple of hours later, you might have a problem). If the 52 is the cat’s natural rise, then he will probably keep rising for the next few hours until insulin kicks in. If you can’t tell whether the number is food spike or natural rise, it’s safest to wait. Your data will help you here. Study the spreadsheet. How much food spike does the cat usually get? How many hours after the shot does the insulin’s onset usually occur in this cat? At what number is the cat likely to be when onset occurs? If the cat does drop, how easy/hard is it to regain control of the numbers? How carb sensitive is he?
** Test often (every 15-20 minutes, or at most every 30 minutes). You want to catch the rise the minute it starts. With most of our cats, once they start to rise they will really zoom. You want to get the insulin in as soon as possible, because it will be another 2-3 hours before the insulin kicks in and you don’t want to let the cycle get too far ahead of you.
Perhaps the most important guideline in shooting low is that any time you shoot your lowest ever number, you should get a +1 and +2 to give you an idea of how the cycle will go. If the +1 is not higher than PS, or if +2 is much lower than PS, that means “pay attention” over the next few hours. Those tests will also help you become even more data ready for the next time you are presented with a low preshot reading.
Using the overlap by shooting low is a great way to take advantage of Lantus/Levemir’s long, flat cycles, once you have learned to do so safely.
Let us know how it goes tonight. I hope you are able to get to bed at a decent time.
ETA - I KNOW BUD IS A SHE...HOW COULD I HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT! SORRY BUD!
You said in your SS that he didn't eat today. Obviously that is why the low PM number. Why do you suppose he didn't eat today? Since he didn't eat it is hard to know if that AM fat 1 unit was too much or not.
I see your vet said to wait until he is 150 and then shoot .5 units. I can understand why she would say this and wants to be cautious. Although I hope it doesn't throw you too far off schedule.
You also might want to review these general guidelines from Libby's "Dealing with low Preshots" post (this is the second half of that post):
click here for full post
Some general rules when stalling (ECID):
** 50s or higher – don’t feed. The number will bump up on its own soon due to the insulin wearing off.
** 40s or lower – you have a couple of choices.
* When 40’s occur at the end of the cycle, it can be beneficial to withhold food and test in 15-20 minutes to determine if kitty is on the rise or hasn’t reached nadir yet.
* If they are hanging in the 40s for a while, or if they are still dropping, it is ok to feed a tsp or two of LC and retest. This is very tricky. You want to avoid feeding too much while you’re waiting for them to go over 50, because you don’t want to artificially inflate the number with food.
* --- Example: if kitty is 43 and you feed a whole meal, or feed some HC, and the number bumps up to 52, is that the cat’s natural end-of-cycle rise, or is it food spike? What if it is food spike? Then if you shoot the 52, when the food wears off he might drop back to the 40’s (and when insulin kicks in a couple of hours later, you might have a problem). If the 52 is the cat’s natural rise, then he will probably keep rising for the next few hours until insulin kicks in. If you can’t tell whether the number is food spike or natural rise, it’s safest to wait. Your data will help you here. Study the spreadsheet. How much food spike does the cat usually get? How many hours after the shot does the insulin’s onset usually occur in this cat? At what number is the cat likely to be when onset occurs? If the cat does drop, how easy/hard is it to regain control of the numbers? How carb sensitive is he?
** Test often (every 15-20 minutes, or at most every 30 minutes). You want to catch the rise the minute it starts. With most of our cats, once they start to rise they will really zoom. You want to get the insulin in as soon as possible, because it will be another 2-3 hours before the insulin kicks in and you don’t want to let the cycle get too far ahead of you.
Perhaps the most important guideline in shooting low is that any time you shoot your lowest ever number, you should get a +1 and +2 to give you an idea of how the cycle will go. If the +1 is not higher than PS, or if +2 is much lower than PS, that means “pay attention” over the next few hours. Those tests will also help you become even more data ready for the next time you are presented with a low preshot reading.
Using the overlap by shooting low is a great way to take advantage of Lantus/Levemir’s long, flat cycles, once you have learned to do so safely.
Let us know how it goes tonight. I hope you are able to get to bed at a decent time.
ETA - I KNOW BUD IS A SHE...HOW COULD I HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT! SORRY BUD!
Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin
Member Since 2009
Re: Bud 4/25 AMPS 157 f1.0; +1 175 PMPS 48
How did Bud Bud eat this evening? That's probably the single trickiest thing with diabetic cats - when they don't eat.
Do you have some chicken or anything you can use to entice her to eat?
The half unit is a good idea because you don't know how she might eat tonight. Test her before you go to bed. At some point she'll probably go up considerably (rebound) as the 48 was pretty low for her.
Sorry you had a big scare!
How did Bud Bud eat this evening? That's probably the single trickiest thing with diabetic cats - when they don't eat.
Do you have some chicken or anything you can use to entice her to eat?
The half unit is a good idea because you don't know how she might eat tonight. Test her before you go to bed. At some point she'll probably go up considerably (rebound) as the 48 was pretty low for her.
Sorry you had a big scare!
eeraby
Member Since 2010
Re: Bud 4/25 AMPS 157 f1.0; +1 175 PMPS 48
We're now keeping a chart of which can she gets and if she eats it. We have 1 other, Itty Bitty, that shares. I did hand feed her "5:10 48 - fed new can of LC food and some frozen baked chicken (thawed) I keep on hand for low BGs. Ate a couple TBS of chicken and a little canned. Acting puuurfectly fine."
She never really acted odd. Just a tad lethargic.
I really didn't get all that scared, thanks to the good advice I've gotten in here and the data I've got. I expected she was going to rise
so I didn't panic and didn't feed the HC! I so would have panicked and fed the HC if on PZI.
Vet wants to see her today if she's not eating.
Bad thing is, I'm on the road starting Thursday through May 9th.
We're now keeping a chart of which can she gets and if she eats it. We have 1 other, Itty Bitty, that shares. I did hand feed her "5:10 48 - fed new can of LC food and some frozen baked chicken (thawed) I keep on hand for low BGs. Ate a couple TBS of chicken and a little canned. Acting puuurfectly fine."
She never really acted odd. Just a tad lethargic.
I really didn't get all that scared, thanks to the good advice I've gotten in here and the data I've got. I expected she was going to rise
so I didn't panic and didn't feed the HC! I so would have panicked and fed the HC if on PZI.Vet wants to see her today if she's not eating.
Bad thing is, I'm on the road starting Thursday through May 9th.
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